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Big East/BXII Challenge - IWokeUpLikeThis - 07-25-2018 01:05 AM
BXII has 2 challenges with SEC & Big East.
Big East has 2 challenges with B1G & BXII.
Neither league showing signs of expanding to 20 games.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 08:19 AM
(07-25-2018 01:05 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:
BXII has 2 challenges with SEC & Big East.
Big East has 2 challenges with B1G & BXII.
Neither league showing signs of expanding to 20 games.
Good for the Big East, good for the Big 12.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - GoldenWarrior11 - 07-25-2018 08:40 AM
It makes perfect sense for both leagues. Since both will, most likely, be remaining at ten members until the next television deal, and both will need to keep up with other power conferences moving to 20-conference games, a partnership is mutually beneficial for both sides. It will be interesting to see the length of agreement, as well as confirming that all ten members will play each other annually (Gavitt Games only cover eight games). The Gavitt Games do not end until 2022, so the Big East is - at minimum - looking at four seasons worth of double-scheduling arrangements with power conferences. Considering the success the Gavitt Games have had thus far, as well as the similar footprint between the two leagues, I anticipate the B1G/Big East arrangement to get extended once its nearing completion on original deal.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 08:43 AM
It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 08:46 AM
(07-25-2018 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 08:53 AM
(07-25-2018 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it? What's the difference in that and what the Pac 12 did reportedly where they wanted to do the challenge with Arizona and UCLA never participating? The Big East rightly said FU to that.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 09:01 AM
(07-25-2018 08:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it?
Yes I am. I'd never even noticed that. After all, big names like Indiana (the true B1G flagship), Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, and Wisconsin have.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 09:07 AM
(07-25-2018 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it?
Yes I am. I'd never even noticed that. After all, big names like Indiana (the true B1G flagship), Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, and Wisconsin have.
This ain't the 1980's. Indiana is not the Big Ten flagship in basketball any longer. Michigan St has totally taken over that. And they have totally big timed the Gavitt games.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 09:15 AM
(07-25-2018 09:07 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote: It'll be interesting with the Gavitt games if the Big Ten flagship team ever participates(Michigan St). The fact they never have is embarassing for the Big East.
so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it?
Yes I am. I'd never even noticed that. After all, big names like Indiana (the true B1G flagship), Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, and Wisconsin have.
This ain't the 1980's. Indiana is not the Big Ten flagship in basketball any longer. Michigan St has totally taken over that. And they have totally big timed the Gavitt games.
That's a silly idea. Maybe they have avoided them to avoid the danger of losing, but nobody nationally thinks of Michigan State as "bigger time" than the top Big East program. That's a delusional idea. They aren't Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky in deed or in brand value.
Indiana is the only blue-blood in the B1G, and Ohio State and Michigan are at least as prominent. MSU is the most successful B1G program of this millenium, and Izzo runs a great program, but they aren't Alabama or USC and never have been.
And even if they were, wouldn't matter, as the B1G has sent plenty of "big time" programs to the Gavitt Games.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 09:26 AM
(07-25-2018 09:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:07 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:53 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:
so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it?
Yes I am. I'd never even noticed that. After all, big names like Indiana (the true B1G flagship), Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, and Wisconsin have.
This ain't the 1980's. Indiana is not the Big Ten flagship in basketball any longer. Michigan St has totally taken over that. And they have totally big timed the Gavitt games.
That's a silly idea. Maybe they have avoided them to avoid the danger of losing, but nobody nationally thinks of Michigan State as "bigger time" than the top Big East program. That's a delusional idea. They aren't Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky in deed or in brand value.
Indiana is the only blue-blood in the B1G, and Ohio State and Michigan are at least as prominent. MSU is the most successful B1G program of this millenium, and Izzo runs a great program, but they aren't Alabama or USC and never have been.
And even if they were, wouldn't matter, as the B1G has sent plenty of "big time" programs to the Gavitt Games.
You are drop down drunk if you really believe that no one things of Michigan St as being bigger than the Big East. Oh, and if you really think Indiana is the only Blue Blood in the Big Ten, then why is Michigan St the team that participates yearly in the champions classic, instead of Indiana.
To act like Michigan St refusing to participate in the Gavitt games is a meaningless thing to the Big East is ignorant.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 09:33 AM
(07-25-2018 09:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:15 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:07 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 08:53 AM)stever20 Wrote: so you think it's fine that Michigan St has never participated in it?
Yes I am. I'd never even noticed that. After all, big names like Indiana (the true B1G flagship), Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, and Wisconsin have.
This ain't the 1980's. Indiana is not the Big Ten flagship in basketball any longer. Michigan St has totally taken over that. And they have totally big timed the Gavitt games.
That's a silly idea. Maybe they have avoided them to avoid the danger of losing, but nobody nationally thinks of Michigan State as "bigger time" than the top Big East program. That's a delusional idea. They aren't Duke, North Carolina, or Kentucky in deed or in brand value.
Indiana is the only blue-blood in the B1G, and Ohio State and Michigan are at least as prominent. MSU is the most successful B1G program of this millenium, and Izzo runs a great program, but they aren't Alabama or USC and never have been.
And even if they were, wouldn't matter, as the B1G has sent plenty of "big time" programs to the Gavitt Games.
You are drop down drunk if you really believe that no one things of Michigan St as being bigger than the Big East. Oh, and if you really think Indiana is the only Blue Blood in the Big Ten, then why is Michigan St the team that participates yearly in the champions classic, instead of Indiana.
To act like Michigan St refusing to participate in the Gavitt games is a meaningless thing to the Big East is ignorant.
The blue bloods are - Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, Duke, UNC, and Indiana. That's it. MSU is not and never has been a 'blue blood'. They are a second-tier program. MSU does play in the 'champions classic' with three real blue bloods, and great for them, I'd keep those games too.
You have an extremely inflated opinion of who MSU is. Maybe on the MSU campus they think of themselves as bigger than the best Big East program, but nobody else does.
Big East couldn't care less about MSU not participating, plenty of big name B1G programs do.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - Michael in Raleigh - 07-25-2018 09:38 AM
Man, the Big East is flourishing. They do need their non-Villanova brethren to go deeper in the tournament, but that league is just killing it in every other way. Very impressive.
Great move by the Big 12, too. Names like Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton are a bigger deal than they were five years ago and should be able to draw some fans better than if this had started back then.
A few years ago, the Big East tried to get a challenge with the Pac-12, but it couldn't get off the ground because, supposedly, the two biggest brand names in Arizona and UCLA were not interested. That's their loss.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 09:42 AM
Fine- forget the blue bloods label. If you ask anyone to name the top 5-6 programs right now, Michigan St would absolutely be in that group. Right now, they are the gold standard of the Big Ten.
And I totally disagree with you on the Big East not caring that MSU hasn't participated. They didn't do a challenge with the Pac 12 due to Arizona/UCLA not wanting to participate. The agreement for the Gavitt games was supposed to be with all 14 teams. From a perception side- it's a really bad look.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 09:44 AM
(07-25-2018 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote: Fine- forget the blue bloods label. If you ask anyone to name the top 5-6 programs right now, Michigan St would absolutely be in that group. Right now, they are the gold standard of the Big Ten.
And I totally disagree with you on the Big East not caring that MSU hasn't participated. They didn't do a challenge with the Pac 12 due to Arizona/UCLA not wanting to participate. The agreement for the Gavitt games was supposed to be with all 14 teams. From a perception side- it's a really bad look.
Man, you make it sound like MSU is Alabama or Clemson or something. The last time they won a national title, Bill Clinton was President, the Twin Towers were still standing, and nobody had ever heard of the Iphone, Facebook, Justin Bieber or Rihanna. They have one Final Four appearance in the past 7 years. That's not a super-dominant program.
From a perception side ... seriously, nobody in the Big East could care less about MSU not participating. As i said, I'm an ardent Big East fan of 39 years, and before you mentioned it I didn't even realize that MSU hadn't played a Gavitt game yet.
That's how much it matters to the Big East.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 09:46 AM
(07-25-2018 09:38 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: Man, the Big East is flourishing. They do need their non-Villanova brethren to go deeper in the tournament, but that league is just killing it in every other way. Very impressive.
Great move by the Big 12, too. Names like Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton are a bigger deal than they were five years ago and should be able to draw some fans better than if this had started back then.
A few years ago, the Big East tried to get a challenge with the Pac-12, but it couldn't get off the ground because, supposedly, the two biggest brand names in Arizona and UCLA were not interested. That's their loss.
Yeah, the Big East has had a great last 3 years. Even with some bad luck in there.
I do think there's a chance there gets to be the perception that it's the big 1 and everyone else. Nova has 15 NCAA tourney wins in the last 5 years. The rest of the league has 16 wins combined. And that's with Xavier having 7 wins.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - quo vadis - 07-25-2018 09:50 AM
(07-25-2018 09:46 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:38 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: Man, the Big East is flourishing. They do need their non-Villanova brethren to go deeper in the tournament, but that league is just killing it in every other way. Very impressive.
Great move by the Big 12, too. Names like Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton are a bigger deal than they were five years ago and should be able to draw some fans better than if this had started back then.
A few years ago, the Big East tried to get a challenge with the Pac-12, but it couldn't get off the ground because, supposedly, the two biggest brand names in Arizona and UCLA were not interested. That's their loss.
Yeah, the Big East has had a great last 3 years. Even with some bad luck in there.
I do think there's a chance there gets to be the perception that it's the big 1 and everyone else. Nova has 15 NCAA tourney wins in the last 5 years. The rest of the league has 16 wins combined. And that's with Xavier having 7 wins.
Except ... as was explained a few weeks ago, the Big East's top-to-bottom strength has been very strong, always in the top 4 of RPI and Sagarin the entire 5 years of its history.
You keep trying to denigrate the Big East, and I'll keep slapping it down, while laughing, OK?
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - GoldenWarrior11 - 07-25-2018 10:00 AM
(07-25-2018 09:26 AM)stever20 Wrote: You are drop down drunk if you really believe that no one things of Michigan St as being bigger than the Big East. Oh, and if you really think Indiana is the only Blue Blood in the Big Ten, then why is Michigan St the team that participates yearly in the champions classic, instead of Indiana.
To act like Michigan St refusing to participate in the Gavitt games is a meaningless thing to the Big East is ignorant.
Stever, you need to relax. No need to call anyone a drunk.
Under the terms of the contract, each Big East team would participate a minimum of six times, while each Big Ten program would take part a minimum of four times. Obviously, MSU has not participated yet, so that would mean - contractually - they would need to participate in the remaining four years in order to satisfy the agreement. If Michigan State truly wanted to avoid playing, I'm sure the B1G and Big East would be able to come to an agreement to satisfy the non-compliance by extending the deal an extra season or two, in order for Michigan State to fulfill the requirement. The B1G and Big East have a great relationship with one another, so I hardly believe that this will cause friction or animosity between the two leagues.
Also, the reason MSU has not been able to participate is due to their agreement with the Champions Classic (which takes place during the same week), which runs through 2019. So, conceivably, they would be able to play in 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023. Again, it is still manageable to satisfy all of the the requirements.
Michigan State has also played Providence, St. John's and DePaul in tournaments the past three seasons, so it's not like they are getting out of playing Big East teams altogether.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 10:12 AM
(07-25-2018 09:50 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:46 AM)stever20 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:38 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: Man, the Big East is flourishing. They do need their non-Villanova brethren to go deeper in the tournament, but that league is just killing it in every other way. Very impressive.
Great move by the Big 12, too. Names like Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton are a bigger deal than they were five years ago and should be able to draw some fans better than if this had started back then.
A few years ago, the Big East tried to get a challenge with the Pac-12, but it couldn't get off the ground because, supposedly, the two biggest brand names in Arizona and UCLA were not interested. That's their loss.
Yeah, the Big East has had a great last 3 years. Even with some bad luck in there.
I do think there's a chance there gets to be the perception that it's the big 1 and everyone else. Nova has 15 NCAA tourney wins in the last 5 years. The rest of the league has 16 wins combined. And that's with Xavier having 7 wins.
Except ... as was explained a few weeks ago, the Big East's top-to-bottom strength has been very strong, always in the top 4 of RPI and Sagarin the entire 5 years of its history.
You keep trying to denigrate the Big East, and I'll keep slapping it down, while laughing, OK?
top to bottom strength doesn't mean that much though. To casual fans, all they care about is how good your top teams are. I mean SEC last year in football wasn't good, but folks think they were because Alabama and Georgia were so great.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - GoldenWarrior11 - 07-25-2018 10:20 AM
(07-25-2018 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote: Fine- forget the blue bloods label. If you ask anyone to name the top 5-6 programs right now, Michigan St would absolutely be in that group. Right now, they are the gold standard of the Big Ten.
And I totally disagree with you on the Big East not caring that MSU hasn't participated. They didn't do a challenge with the Pac 12 due to Arizona/UCLA not wanting to participate. The agreement for the Gavitt games was supposed to be with all 14 teams. From a perception side- it's a really bad look.
My past five years (no order): Duke, North Carolina, Villanova, Kentucky, and Kansas. Michigan has been better overall in the tournament than Michigan State, IMO.
RE: Big East/BXII Challenge - stever20 - 07-25-2018 10:31 AM
(07-25-2018 10:20 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:(07-25-2018 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote: Fine- forget the blue bloods label. If you ask anyone to name the top 5-6 programs right now, Michigan St would absolutely be in that group. Right now, they are the gold standard of the Big Ten.
And I totally disagree with you on the Big East not caring that MSU hasn't participated. They didn't do a challenge with the Pac 12 due to Arizona/UCLA not wanting to participate. The agreement for the Gavitt games was supposed to be with all 14 teams. From a perception side- it's a really bad look.
My past five years (no order): Duke, North Carolina, Villanova, Kentucky, and Kansas. Michigan has been better overall in the tournament than Michigan State, IMO.
Mich St last 5 years has a final 4 and 2 elite 8's
Mich last 5 years has the title game appearance, but only 1 elite 8 and missed the tourney 1 year.
So no.