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Sugar Bowl question - Hokie4Skins - 10-31-2018 08:13 AM
If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
RE: Sugar Bowl question - BePcr07 - 10-31-2018 08:25 AM
I think it’d be the next highest ranked XII school. If, for example, 1-loss Oklahoma beats 2-loss Texas in the conference championship game and makes it in the CFP and of West Virginia has 2 losses and was 3rd in the conference before the conference championship game, then I believe the Mountaineers would likely get that spot depending on the final rankings.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - Kaplony - 10-31-2018 08:26 AM
(10-31-2018 08:13 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
They would get the second highest ranked Big XII team in the CFP poll. It could be the title game loser or it could be the first team left out depending on where the rankings fall. Remember when VT lost the ACCCG in 2016 it was FSU who took the ACC's slot in the Orange Bowl when Clemson was selected for the CFP. VT fell all the way to the Belk Bowl.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - johnintx - 10-31-2018 08:42 AM
(10-31-2018 08:13 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
The Big 12 is contracted to send a team to the Sugar Bowl. I have not seen anywhere that the Sugar Bowl is bound to take the loser of the championship game if a B12 team is selected for the CFP.
In 2015, Oklahoma made the CFP, and Oklahoma State was invited to the Sugar Bowl as the B12 rep. OSU and TCU tied for 2nd place. TCU was the higher ranked team, but OSU won the head-to-head matchup. There was no B12 championship game at the time.
The criteria, from what I can tell, has been left purposely vague. The Sugar Bowl has to take a Big 12 team that qualifies for a New Year's Six bowl. I don't believe they are tied down to the loser of the championship game.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - ken d - 10-31-2018 08:56 AM
(10-31-2018 08:42 AM)johnintx Wrote:(10-31-2018 08:13 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
The Big 12 is contracted to send a team to the Sugar Bowl. I have not seen anywhere that the Sugar Bowl is bound to take the loser of the championship game if a B12 team is selected for the CFP.
In 2015, Oklahoma made the CFP, and Oklahoma State was invited to the Sugar Bowl as the B12 rep. OSU and TCU tied for 2nd place. TCU was the higher ranked team, but OSU won the head-to-head matchup. There was no B12 championship game at the time.
The criteria, from what I can tell, has been left purposely vague. The Sugar Bowl has to take a Big 12 team that qualifies for a New Year's Six bowl. I don't believe they are tied down to the loser of the championship game.
That would suggest that if the only Big 12 team ranked in the Top 12 qualifies for the CFP then no Big 12 team would go to the Sugar Bowl. That doesn't sound right to me.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - quo vadis - 10-31-2018 09:30 AM
(10-31-2018 08:26 AM)Kaplony Wrote:(10-31-2018 08:13 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
They would get the second highest ranked Big XII team in the CFP poll. It could be the title game loser or it could be the first team left out depending on where the rankings fall. Remember when VT lost the ACCCG in 2016 it was FSU who took the ACC's slot in the Orange Bowl when Clemson was selected for the CFP. VT fell all the way to the Belk Bowl.
I''m not sure about that. Before the Big 12 had a CCG, it's Sugar Bowl selection procedure differed from that of other P5 conferences. While all the other conferences go by the straight CFP rankings, the Big 12 used its own internal tie-breaker procedure for determining who goes to the Sugar Bowl if the champ is in the playoffs.
Now, it's possible that with the advent of the CCG, the Big 12 has changed its policy such that they would fill their Sugar slot based on the CFP rankings, like the SEC does for its Sugar slot. But, I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere. And, we haven't gone through an iteration with the Sugar as not being a playoff bowl to see how it actually works.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - johnintx - 10-31-2018 09:31 AM
(10-31-2018 08:56 AM)ken d Wrote:(10-31-2018 08:42 AM)johnintx Wrote:(10-31-2018 08:13 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: If the Big 12 champion is selected for the CFP, is the Sugar Bowl then slotted with the Big 12 title game loser?
The Big 12 is contracted to send a team to the Sugar Bowl. I have not seen anywhere that the Sugar Bowl is bound to take the loser of the championship game if a B12 team is selected for the CFP.
In 2015, Oklahoma made the CFP, and Oklahoma State was invited to the Sugar Bowl as the B12 rep. OSU and TCU tied for 2nd place. TCU was the higher ranked team, but OSU won the head-to-head matchup. There was no B12 championship game at the time.
The criteria, from what I can tell, has been left purposely vague. The Sugar Bowl has to take a Big 12 team that qualifies for a New Year's Six bowl. I don't believe they are tied down to the loser of the championship game.
That would suggest that if the only Big 12 team ranked in the Top 12 qualifies for the CFP then no Big 12 team would go to the Sugar Bowl. That doesn't sound right to me.
After checking it out, I see that the OSU team that went to the 2015 Sugar Bowl was ranked 16th. They are the lowest ranked P5 team to make a New Year's Six game in the CFP era. Auburn was ranked 14th in 2016 when they filled the SEC spot in the Sugar Bowl. The Sugar Bowl is tied to the SEC and Big 12, regardless of ranking, except in years when they host a CFP semifinal.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - quo vadis - 10-31-2018 09:41 AM
(10-31-2018 09:31 AM)johnintx Wrote: After checking it out, I see that the OSU team that went to the 2015 Sugar Bowl was ranked 16th. They are the lowest ranked P5 team to make a New Year's Six game in the CFP era. Auburn was ranked 14th in 2016 when they filled the SEC spot in the Sugar Bowl. The Sugar Bowl is tied to the SEC and Big 12, regardless of ranking, except in years when they host a CFP semifinal.
There's zero doubt that in a year like this one where the Sugar Bowl is not a playoff bowl, and if the Big 12 champ does make the playoffs, there WILL be a Big 12 team in the Sugar Bowl. That's a fact, that's the nature of the contract. Doesn't matter if the next-best Big 12 team is ranked #6 or #20 or is unranked - the Big 12 will send a team to the Sugar Bowl this year.
BUT, Hokie's question asks about the process used to select that Big 12 Sugar Bowl team if the champ is in the playoffs. And that's a good question, because the Big 12 has had a different procedure: Whereas the ACC and SEC just go by the straight CFP rankings to place their non-champ in the Orange and Sugar bowls, the Big 12 has NOT gone by the CFP rankings but rather has used their own internal tie-breaker to decide it.
That's why, in 2015, #16 Oklahoma State went to the Sugar Bowl while #11 TCU played in the Alamo Bowl - even though the CFP had TCU five spots higher, OK State was the #2 Big 12 team according to the Big 12's own tie-breaker process.
BUT #2, the last time that procedure was tested was in 2015, and at that time, the Big 12 did not have a CCG. Now, it does, which raises the issue of whether with the advent of the CCG, the Big 12 has changed its policy. If it hasn't, then that would mean that unlike the SEC, the Big 12 CCG runner-up WOULD automatically go to the Sugar Bowl as the Big 12 rep (assuming the runner-up doesn't make the playoffs of course as a second Big 12 team) even if there was another Big 12 team that wasn't the champ and not in the playoffs that is ranked ahead of them (like TCU vs OK State in 2015).
But #3, maybe the Big 12 has changed its policy and now goes by straight CFP rankings like the SEC. I don't know.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - Hokie4Skins - 11-27-2018 07:46 AM
So if Oklahoma goes to the CFP, I would assume Texas gets the Sugar Bowl slot. But what if WVU is ahead of them in the final CFP rankings?
RE: Sugar Bowl question - quo vadis - 11-27-2018 08:36 AM
(11-27-2018 07:46 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote: So if Oklahoma goes to the CFP, I would assume Texas gets the Sugar Bowl slot. But what if WVU is ahead of them in the final CFP rankings?
Unlike other conferences, the Big 12 has not used the CFP rankings to determine its Sugar Bowl participant. It uses its own, internal conference standings procedure. E.g., in 2015, OK State went to the Sugar Bowl not TCU, even though TCU was 5 spots higher in the final CFP rankings. That's because OK State beat out TCU for #2 according to the Big 12 tie-breaker procedure.
In short, if the B12 champ is in the playoffs, the Big 12 sends the #2 team in the Big 12 standings, as determined by Big 12 criteria, not what the CFP says.
So that would mean that Texas goes to the Sugar Bowl if they lose to OU and OU goes to the playoffs.
Also, since others have implied otherwise, this means the Big 12 determines who it sends to the Sugar Bowl, the Sugar Bowl does not get to "pick" who the Big 12 sends.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - BruceMcF - 11-27-2018 11:56 PM
What makes this tricky is so many precedents from divisional conferences don't automatically translate ... if the Division runner up to the CCG winner goes, often the CFP and conference ranking agree. But losing the CCG shouldn't cost the loser their top 2 position in the Big 12.
RE: Sugar Bowl question - Frog in the Kitchen Sink - 11-28-2018 10:28 AM
http://wvmetronews.com/2018/11/27/sugar-bowl-out-of-picture-west-virginia-texas-big-12/
Quote:The Big 12 later clarified its selection protocol: If the winner of the Big 12 Championship game is selected for a CFP semifinal, the runner-up team from the championship game would advance to the Sugar Bowl.