Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

Quote:the whole premise of modern liberalism is to give up liberties in exchange for some security...which is why its hilarious to watch libs whine about the patrtiot act.

Interesting assertion. Can you back this up with a citation?

aside from the fact that FDR is a modern liberal hero, who took away many more civil liberties in WW2 than Bush has taken in wake of 9/11....or even Clinton for that matter with his Echelon program.....

but I'm speaking more towards economic liberties and Private Property, starting with the formation of the IRS and Income tax, to the "New Deal" to the "great Society" to now with them trying to Socialize medicine and raise taxes, all of these things require taking away our liberties in exchange for "security", whether its "Social Security" or welfare, Socialized Medicince, Gun Laws, etc. The general idea is that we have to give up some of our economic liberties in exchange for this and the "greater good".

Justice Brown, in a famous speech they will twist and use to attack her if nominated said the following:

Quote:The great innovation of this millennium was equality before the law. The greatest fiasco — the attempt to guarantee equal outcomes for all people. Tom Bethell notes that the security of property — a security our Constitution sought to ensure — had to be devalued in order for collectivism to come of age. The founders viewed private property as "the guardian of every other right."9 But, "by 1890 we find Alfred Marshall, the teacher of John Maynard Keynes making the astounding claim that the need for private property reaches no deeper than the qualities of human nature."10 A hundred years later came Milton Friedman's laconic reply: " 'I would say that goes pretty deep.'"11 In between, came the reign of socialism. "Starting with the formation of the Fabian Society and ending with the fall of the Berlin Wall, its ambitious project was the reformation of human nature. Intellectuals visualized a planned life without private property, mediated by the New Man."12 He never arrived. As John McGinnis persuasively argues: "There is simply a mismatch between collectivism on any large and enduring scale and our evolved nature. As Edward O. Wilson, the world's foremost expert on ants, remarked about Marxism, 'Wonderful theory. Wrong species.'"13

don't pay your taxes and see who really owns your "private property", those rights have been trampled in exchange for all these big government programs. High taxes and government regulations trample economic liberties, cause barriers to entry in business and so on.

gun laws trample the 2nd amendment, in exchange for perceived "security".....

don't get me wrong, we haven't taken the full plunge yet and honestly the 20th century is empirical evidence of the failure of this path, its the "Road to Serfdom", i.e. Slavery that F.A. Hayek famously wrote about, Ronald Reagan quoted chapters of his book at length and had them memorized....

Quote:Writing 50 years ago, F.A. Hayek warned us that a centrally planned economy is "The Road to Serfdom."3 He was right, of course; but the intervening years have shown us that there are many other roads to serfdom. In fact, it now appears that human nature is so constituted that, as in the days of empire all roads led to Rome; in the heyday of liberal democracy, all roads lead to slavery. And we no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate. The drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens.

i.e., big govt. programs oppress the individual and take away rights. Extreme version is a place like Cuba, castro is basically one big slave owner and the island is his plantation. And they'll never read any of this because the internet is banned there.