(02-19-2019 05:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 03:05 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 02:56 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(02-19-2019 11:28 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Bernie Sanders is ready to roll in 2020

Per the Bern's own words today on CBS, he is proposing the

"People arent just entitled to certain Constitutional rights, they are *entitled* to economic rights". (emphasis added)

Entitled To...

Pertinent part starts at abut 18:00.

Goes on to the issue that he feels that people are "entitled" to good healthcare, they are "entitled" to good education, and "entitled" to live in a clean environment.

Yeah, these aren't socialist/collectivist ideals in the fing slightest.

Let the the leg kicking begin on the term 'socialist' now for the 18 gabillionth time.

As an aside to the more-than-certain 'terminology name kicking' that will ensue, George Will addressed this 'terminology name game' just this weekend in an editorial that appeared in the Washington Post.

Here is a link to the editorial reprinted in full and not 'subscriber-protected'.

Today's 'socialism'

So are you suggesting that providing quality public education and a protected environment are not things our various levels of government should provide?


I think we have 100+ years of evidence that the general populace of the US supports those items - public schools/universities and the national parks have been around for 100+ years. We've hardly transformed into a socialist state because of those items.

Nice strawman. Again.

Quote:Or do you just quibble over the term "entitled," but support the governments role in, at the least, providing public education and environmental protection?

Not quibbling over the word entitled.

If you are making the assertion that Bernie is *not* asking for anything less than all health care provided for everyone, and *all* education at *all* levels to be provided for, then you are also you are farm more naive than I would have thought possible with a Rice education.

If, you are already aware of that making the case that they are called for, you are far more of a fellow traveler than I would have assumed.

Bernie specifically used the 'entitled'. He also invoked the history of such 'entitlements' by referencing FDR and his push for his Second Bill of Rights and 'positive freedoms' in the very same sentence as the word entitled.

Get off your stupid strawman you set up for yourself above. First, I dont think that was my assertion. Second, it is explicitly obvious why Bern uses the term 'entitled' and the context.

Hell, I respect Bern for suggesting this. At least he is honest about it. As opposed to those who say 'oh no, heaven's to Betsy, he would *never* say that' (i.e. kind of like your strawman argument above.)

I suggest at, the very least, you take the shroud off of your eyes. Or even perhaps read some history and *why* Bernie chose to invoke his position with explicit reference to FDR's push in 1944.

I focused on education and environmental protection because we have a long history of the government providing those items - I was trying to figure out why you thought a call to do more in that area as being socialist. And my first comment wasn't a strawman - it was laying the foundation for my question. I was trying to figure out if you opposed the government providing those services in general, or if you didn't like the use of the word entitled. Sorry for asking a question.

Digging into the details of your comment for education, Bernie does propose extending that service to universities - but I have not seen him argue for ALL levels of education to be provided. I have not seen him propose post-graduate education be covered (Master's, PhD's, JD's, etc). Did I miss a proposal of his? If I didn't, do you have a reason why his expansion of education into the post-high school realm is a step too far?

I really don't know what shroud I have - I don't get why Bernie advocating for the government to expand programs it already provides for each and every individual int he country (education and environmental protection) is a socialist idea.

I could understand immediately why you could argue that for health care - the governments forays into that realm have been much more focused on specific populations.

It seems like it's more the term "entitled" that Bernie uses, and its implications, that causes you to feel that way. Or at least that's what I get from your response, which didn't really clear up why these proposals are socialist.