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JD Heel
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Post: #41
 
This year's final four was not a fluke because all the top seeds advanced except Maryland. It had nothing to do with NC bias.

I understand what you're talking about with the fans pulling against a high seed in hoping for easier games. But that only proves my point further that it has nothing to do with an NC bias -- it has to do with bias against high seeds.

So, how did an NC bias affect Maryland in this past year's tourney? Using the argument you've given, a higher-seeded Maryland team would be ganged up on anywhere... except D.C. And I think you're implying that it would be because there'd be more Maryland and UVa fans there.

Thus, it seems that you're asking for an advantage that no NC team ever gets in the tourney. You're asking for a higher-seeded, fearsome, defending champion Maryland team to not have a huge crowd against them -- when a higher-seeded, fearsome, defending champion NC team will always have a big crowd against them in NC (like dook did last year when the tourney was in Charlotte).

(Please correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth.)

And that -- again -- is because there is always a good mix of fans from different schools at the tourneys in NC to pull against the higher-seeded teams.

So, once again, it appears to me that NC is the fairest venue to host the tourney in any given year. Here, high-seeded teams -- whether they are NC teams or not -- will always have a majority of the fans cheering against them. Isn't that what makes the tourney fun?

-JD
05-01-2003 09:04 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #42
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:Arguing for FLA and Clemson seems a little silly though considering they are and have been the worst in the conference and have a hard time selling tickets to their own home court.
You're right about that. 03-wink

But, also, why cripple them even more by sending the tourney that much farther away from them? Even if their fan support stinks, they still deserve the same amount of fairness that Maryland and UVa get (and I know you agree on this).

And yes, I still agree with sending it up to D.C. once every eight years or so... but I just don't think that ACC tourney is going to be as fair as any given ACC tourney in NC would be.

I guess my point is that if you had to pick one venue that would be the fairest venue for all ACC teams, wouldn't you say North Carolina?

-JD



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05-01-2003 09:20 AM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #43
 
JD Heel Wrote:This year's final four was not a fluke because all the top seeds advanced except Maryland. It had nothing to do with NC bias.

I understand what you're talking about with the fans pulling against a high seed in hoping for easier games. But that only proves my point further that it has nothing to do with an NC bias -- it has to do with bias against high seeds.

So, how did an NC bias affect Maryland in this past year's tourney? Using the argument you've given, a higher-seeded Maryland team would be ganged up on anywhere... except D.C. And I think you're implying that it would be because there'd be more Maryland and UVa fans there.

Thus, it seems that you're asking for an advantage that no NC team ever gets in the tourney. You're asking for a higher-seeded, fearsome, defending champion Maryland team to not have a huge crowd against them -- when a higher-seeded, fearsome, defending champion NC team will always have a big crowd against them in NC (like dook did last year when the tourney was in Charlotte).

(Please correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth.)

And that -- again -- is because there is always a good mix of fans from different schools at the tourneys in NC to pull against the higher-seeded teams.

So, once again, it appears to me that NC is the fairest venue to host the tourney in any given year. Here, high-seeded teams -- whether they are NC teams or not -- will always have a majority of the fans cheering against them. Isn't that what makes the tourney fun?

-JD
OK...you and I do agree on a lot of things here. Higher seeded teams do get fans rooting against them. My point is that while MD is a top team, NC will never be fair for MD to play. Let's draw this out a little. If #2 MD plays #7 NC (like they did), who will the fans root for? NC. If a #3 NC State plays a #6 G-tech, who will the fans root for? NC State (home-court Advantage and I was there). As for Duke...well everyone want them to loose except their fans.

I do remember NC State having a nice turn-out in the final game, but they got blown out by a far better team. Had the better teams made the final (Wake, MD), the game might have actually been fun to watch. So for my answer to your "Isn't that what makes the tourney fun?" question, my answer would be a resounding NO. I would have much preferred to see a game where the result wasn't determined before the game even started (2 year's in a row). Do you really think NC would have beaten MD anywhere other than NC? The answer was quickly answered when Duke kicked the Sh*t out of NC the next day in NC of all places. If you aren't willing to admit at least the notion that a NC team feels "at home" in a NC venue doesn't help their chance, then we will never agree. I assure you that MD does not come into NC feeling the "benefits" of playing in their home-state.

Now remember, I am not saying that the tourney shouldn't be held in NC. My point has always been that it shouldn't always be held in NC. Because whether you want to admit it or not, the home-court advantage (no matter which state you are from) plays as much of a role in a team's run as team talent.

All I can say past this is perhaps you should look at the NCAA tourney and try to explain why teams like Wake and NC State choke and the obviously better MD and Duke do so well. The answer is...take them out of their comfortable home-court and they aren't half the team they are in it. The only way an ACC tourney would be fair for all teams would be to have it in California 03-wink . Until that day (never) happens, the tourney will always have advantages for specific teams no matter where it is held.

ps. Your point about 4 NC teams having less of an advantage completely makes sense to me and I agree completely.
05-01-2003 09:42 AM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #44
 
JD Heel Wrote:You're right about that. &nbsp;03-wink

But, also, why cripple them even more by sending the tourney that much farther away from them? &nbsp;Even if their fan support stinks, they still deserve the same amount of fairness that Maryland and UVa get (and I know you agree on this).

And yes, I still agree with sending it up to D.C. once every eight years or so... but I just don't think that ACC tourney is going to be as fair as any given ACC tourney in NC would be.

I guess my point is that if you had to pick one venue that would be the fairest venue for all ACC teams, wouldn't you say North Carolina?

-JD
If I HAD to pick one state to have the tourney in, I would agree and say NC (allthough Northern SC would be exactly the medium point between MD and FLA).

Yes I agree that you shouldn't punish the fans no matter how well their specifc team is doing. That is why the rotation makes more sense.

So as I see it MD and VA would represent DC. Wake, NC, NC State and Duke represent Charlotte and Greensboro. FLA, Clemson, and Ga Tech represent Atlanta or Tallahassee. So why wouldn't it be fair in a nine year period to have the tourney 4 times in NC, 3 times in Atlanta/Tal., and 2 times in DC? Isn't that what is most fair to all the fans of those respective schools considering attendance is never an issue and like you have said time after time that fans will root for the under-dog? Let's also not forget that it is exactly the same distance from Charlotte to DC as it is from DC to Charlotte. If NC fans want to come, they are more than welcome to make the same trek that I have for the past two year's. And let's be honest, not too many Clemson, FLA, and G-tech fans even made it to NC.

So....

1) GA
2) NC
3) GA
4) NC
5) DC
6) NC
7) GA
8) NC
9) DC



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05-01-2003 09:54 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #45
 
All I can say is that if I'd have been at this year's tourney, I would have been pulling for UNC, Virginia, Tech, and FSU in the first round. That would have been against three NC teams, and against three higher-seeded teams.

And -- believe it or not -- if I'd have been at last year's tourney, I would've pulled hard for Maryland to beat State in the second round (and that would be pulling for a higher-seeded team). That would have shot all your theories to heck....

The hatred among the Big Four schools here is strong enough to keep things basically fair.

I will actually agree with your point about feeling "at home" -- as it affects each team psychologically, that is. I don't think this has so much to do with the fans there as it does with certain mental barriers that some teams have. And I think Maryland (more than any other team) has this because they've made a huge deal about playing the tourney in NC the last couple of years. They've gotten upset by NC teams in the last couple of years, and now they feel like the NC teams have some kind of mental advantage. It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy.

-JD
05-01-2003 10:04 AM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #46
 
JD Heel Wrote:All I can say is that if I'd have been at this year's tourney, I would have been pulling for UNC, Virginia, Tech, and FSU in the first round. &nbsp;That would have been against three NC teams, and against three higher-seeded teams.

And -- believe it or not -- if I'd have been at last year's tourney, I would've pulled hard for Maryland to beat State in the second round (and that would be pulling for a higher-seeded team). &nbsp;That would have shot all your theories to heck....

The hatred among the Big Four schools here is strong enough to keep things basically fair.

I will actually agree with your point about feeling "at home" -- as it affects each team psychologically, that is. &nbsp;I don't think this has so much to do with the fans there as it does with certain mental barriers that some teams have. &nbsp;And I think Maryland (more than any other team) has this because they've made a huge deal about playing the tourney in NC the last couple of years. &nbsp;They've gotten upset by NC teams in the last couple of years, and now they feel like the NC teams have some kind of mental advantage. &nbsp;It's like a self-fulfilling prophesy.

-JD
Well...if that's the case then you are indeed an ACC fan as well as a NC fan. I assure you that you would not be in the majority by the responses I saw in the stands. I can understand that 2 year's ago you would have rooted for MD considering your team was already out of it and State is your rival. I guess what it all boils down to is MD is quickly sharing the Duke spotlight. This brings on a lot of anti-fans MD's way.

Gary Williams has said for year's that he will take the ACC tourney seriously the day they make it fair for all the schools in the ACC. I couldn't agree with him more. I guess last year summed it all up for MD fans. MD wins the regular season ACC (15-1). MD looses to State in a home-court/pleaseantville shooting display only to have State go stone cold against another home court team. Then MD wins every game on a neutral court against the best teams in every big conference to take home the National Championship. Do you think those stands were filled completely with MD fans?

As for the mental barriers that are created by MD about playing in NC every year, perhaps you should turn that around and realize the security and confidence that gives the NC teams that they wouldn't have anywhere but NC. Sure home-court plays a huge role. In my oppinion it is the only reason NC State ever made the finals this and last year and the only reason NC beat a team the handed them a 40 point a** kicking earlier in the season. So I guess all I'm saying is that I want the same advantage every once in a while. I mean please, if you can tell me why one of the best teams in the best conference in the country shouldn't get the same priviledges as UNC, Duke, Wake, and NC State, I'd sure like to hear why.



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05-01-2003 10:26 AM
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Lucy
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Post: #47
 
Gee kaiser, your schedule looks strangely like mine... 03-wink

FWIW, and getting back to LT's initial point about expansion of the ACC, I am not in favor of expansion because I don't want to lose the ability to play every member school every year. I don't want schools to rotate in and out of split division schedules (i.e. 6 years on, 3 off like the SEC)...I think part of what makes the ACC great is that we have natural, long-term rivalries as well as new ones that have developed as trends in winning have changed (i.e. the fairly new MD/Duke rivalry in bball, the NC State/FSU rivalry in football). If we were to expand, I would not want 12 teams, but instead 10 teams max. Adding Virginia Tech would be a natural fit...traditional rivalry with Virginia, further tapping into the VA media market, good academics in engineering/computers like NC State & Georgia Tech.

BTW, if you notice, the North Carolina schools aren't cliquing together in the new rivalry schemes. MD/Duke, NCSU/FSU...Even Wake & GT are starting a rivalry of sorts, because Wake has caused Tech fits in football in recent years, and our baseball teams have really had some hard-fought battles since 1998 which have the fans itching for the matchup to occur each year. I think these trends are showing a propensity to move away from the "Carolina schools vs. everyone else" mentality from years past.
05-01-2003 10:38 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #48
 
Quote:Do you think those stands were filled completely with MD fans?
No, but neither were they filled with just UNC fans last year or just NC State fans the year before when Maryland lost in the ACC tourney. As you said, it's the nature of the ACC tournament that fans pull against the higher seeds. At the NCAA tourney, games are always played in huge domes and are pretty evenly divided between the four teams of that region. And, as I said, I just think Maryland has that mental block against the ACC tourney whenever it's played in NC.

Also, remember that the last time the tourney was outside of NC, UNC and dook played in the championship.

As for the homecourt advantage that was somehow the difference in our beating Maryland this year in the tourney -- we couldn't even beat Maryland when we had 21,000+ people pulling against them in the Dean Dome.

The difference is that Maryland knows that they can win in the Dean Dome, but lately they freeze up when they play in the ACC tourney in NC. It was a mental block combined with spirited play by our team that won us the game in the tourney.

-JD
05-01-2003 11:06 AM
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JD Heel
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Post: #49
 
I'd have to agree with Lucy -- my biggest reason for not expanding is losing that ability to play every school once a year in football and twice a year in basketball. I couldn't imagine going through a year not playing an ACC team -- that just doesn't seem right to me. I look forward to the annual matchups, and expansion would just wipe that away.

-JD
05-01-2003 12:38 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #50
 
JD Heel Wrote:No, but neither were they filled with just UNC fans last year or just NC State fans the year before when Maryland lost in the ACC tourney. As you said, it's the nature of the ACC tournament that fans pull against the higher seeds. At the NCAA tourney, games are always played in huge domes and are pretty evenly divided between the four teams of that region. And, as I said, I just think Maryland has that mental block against the ACC tourney whenever it's played in NC.

Also, remember that the last time the tourney was outside of NC, UNC and dook played in the championship.

As for the homecourt advantage that was somehow the difference in our beating Maryland this year in the tourney -- we couldn't even beat Maryland when we had 21,000+ people pulling against them in the Dean Dome.

The difference is that Maryland knows that they can win in the Dean Dome, but lately they freeze up when they play in the ACC tourney in NC. It was a mental block combined with spirited play by our team that won us the game in the tourney.

-JD
Compared to the amount of MD fans, you certainly can not say that the overwhelming dominance of fans weren't NC fans. I know, I was there.

I will not dispute that there is a mental block with MD in the tourney when it's played in NC. The coach does very little to change this because he too thinks the ACC tourney is unfair and no more than a stepping stone to the real tournament.

As for the Heels beating MD, I am not saying it couldn't happen. I personaly think NC could be a great team. On the other hand, last year they had NO business winning that game. They did and I'm passed it. My point is that it seemed that NC only geared up for MD and decided to bend over for Duke. This wouldn't have happened if they didn't have the home-court fans cheering them on (it was crazy how bad it was). Once they played Duke, the advantage went away as well as their luck.

As for Duke winning the last time it was outside of NC....I can't believe you are trying to make a point here. When Duke won outside of NC, they were the only team worth a sh*t. They beat NC in 2001 by 26 and in 1999 by 23 and they also beat MD in 2000 by 13. The competition that is in the ACC now was not there that year or the year before (accept MD made the final four in the NCAA's). They won the conference easily as well as the tourney. They would have won it in DC, Atlanta, Greensboro, Charlotte, Phoenix, Tuscon, anywhere.
05-01-2003 12:40 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #51
 
Well Lucy like I've said before, I do agree with you completely. The schedules that we both would like are the same and I'm not arguing anything about it. Bring on the true competition by rotating venues and states.

As I see it, the ACC is perfect the way it is. I like playing each team twice giving both sides even access to show their home-court advantage. It would be a real shame if MD and Duke only played once (and we all know if that happened it would be in Cameron every time much like the rest of their OOC schedule). It would also be a shame if every school didn't get the opportunity to play at the Dean Dome. That is one of the ACC's most historical places. Why change all this history to complicate the regular season like the Big East has?

Let's also not forget that we don't need Miami or VA tech to come in for more football competition. Last time I checked the ACC had 4 teams ranked in the top 15. We don't need the help. We are growing better football teams faster than any other conference in the NCAA. I'll take my chances with what we have.
05-01-2003 12:52 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #52
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:My point is that it seemed that NC only geared up for MD and decided to bend over for Duke. This wouldn't have happened if they didn't have the home-court fans cheering them on (it was crazy how bad it was). Once they played Duke, the advantage went away as well as their luck.
I think it was more the fact that they spent all their energy beating Maryland. They were too exhausted to give dook much of a fight (it was dook that had sleepwalked through perennial patsy UVa the night before and was 100% ready for Saturday's game). The year before, State spent all of their energy beating Maryland and couldn't give dook much of a fight either.

I don't know what to tell you about the fan situation for the Friday UNC game compared to the Saturday UNC game. I can say that UNC was basically out of it in the first half against Maryland, and the crowd seemed to reflect that. When the game turned around in the second half, everyone started to pull for the underdog. The next day, we were never really in the game against dook. If it had been close, I think a lot more fans would have been pulling against dook.

You said that dook was the only worthwhile team when they won it outside of NC -- well, Maryland was a Final Four team that year (who actually dominated dook for most of their Final Four game, and even beat dook in Cameron). Yet, dook led practically the entire game in Atlanta against Maryland until the Terps made a big run at the end. It was the best that dook played Maryland for a full 40 minutes that year, because they had been losing by a good amount in all the other three games against the Terps (including that amazing game at Cole).

And -- although we were playing like crap that time of year -- we still won enough to make it to the championship in Atlanta.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maryland fans pack the building when it's played up in D.C. and if they end up wining the title that year. It might just have something to do with that mental block. But, I will shake my head if they do that and then start saying that it was because NC teams lost the "home-court advantage" of playing in NC. That's because -- homecourt or not -- they should have already won the ACC at least once in the past three years. And as I've said before, it's not as much of an advantage as Maryland fans make it seem.

-JD
05-01-2003 12:59 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #53
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:As I see it, the ACC is perfect the way it is. I like playing each team twice giving both sides even access to show their home-court advantage. It would be a real shame if MD and Duke only played once (and we all know if that happened it would be in Cameron every time much like the rest of their OOC schedule). It would also be a shame if every school didn't get the opportunity to play at the Dean Dome. That is one of the ACC's most historical places. Why change all this history to complicate the regular season like the Big East has?

Let's also not forget that we don't need Miami or VA tech to come in for more football competition. Last time I checked the ACC had 4 teams ranked in the top 15. We don't need the help. We are growing better football teams faster than any other conference in the NCAA. I'll take my chances with what we have.
This is one post I agree with you 100 percent on!

-JD
05-01-2003 01:01 PM
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kaisersayzo Offline
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Post: #54
 
JD Heel Wrote:I think it was more the fact that they spent all their energy beating Maryland. They were too exhausted to give dook much of a fight (it was dook that had sleepwalked through perennial patsy UVa the night before and was 100% ready for Saturday's game). The year before, State spent all of their energy beating Maryland and couldn't give dook much of a fight either.

I don't know what to tell you about the fan situation for the Friday UNC game compared to the Saturday UNC game. I can say that UNC was basically out of it in the first half against Maryland, and the crowd seemed to reflect that. When the game turned around in the second half, everyone started to pull for the underdog. The next day, we were never really in the game against dook. If it had been close, I think a lot more fans would have been pulling against dook.

You said that dook was the only worthwhile team when they won it outside of NC -- well, Maryland was a Final Four team that year (who actually dominated dook for most of their Final Four game, and even beat dook in Cameron). Yet, dook led practically the entire game in Atlanta against Maryland until the Terps made a big run at the end. It was the best that dook played Maryland for a full 40 minutes that year, because they had been losing by a good amount in all the other three games against the Terps (including that amazing game at Cole).

And -- although we were playing like crap that time of year -- we still won enough to make it to the championship in Atlanta.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maryland fans pack the building when it's played up in D.C. and if they end up wining the title that year. It might just have something to do with that mental block. But, I will shake my head if they do that and then start saying that it was because NC teams lost the "home-court advantage" of playing in NC. That's because -- homecourt or not -- they should have already won the ACC at least once in the past three years. And as I've said before, it's not as much of an advantage as Maryland fans make it seem.

-JD
Kind of my point isn't it? These other teams spend all their energy on MD (the outsider) and roll-over for the next. Why don't these teams do the same with Duke? North Carolina had flashes of greatness this year. It was usually followed by bad coaching and rookie mistakes though. Selling me on the point that NC spent all their energy on MD doesn't hold much water. These kids are all freshman and sophmores (top 3 recruits in the nation). There is no way they didn't have the energy. They didn't have the same drive...why?....no momentum to win. They knew they weren't as good as MD or Duke but they had the fans to pull them through the MD game. They were never in the Duke game because the rolled over from the beginning...that's it. They showed they can beat Duke so why did they quit?

Listen carefully....MD didn't win that game because they got beat. They didn't win last year because they had to play at NC against a team shooting 56% from the 2 and 3 (who in turn rolled over the next game). They didn't win the year before because Duke was a better team. Should MD have won one of those? Perhaps...but not necessarily.

Now as for next year, MD will be a very young team and will not do well again (unless their youth drowns out the dark cloud over our heads). When it comes to DC though there is still no guarantee MD or VA will win it. For all I know, Duke or NC could win it (with the players they have). At least when it is played in DC, I know MD will have no excuse not to give it their all. Watch out for the MD recruits though. I have a feeling the names Michael Jones, John Gilcrist, Nik Caner-Medley, and especially Jamar Smith (I know he only has one year left) will plague the Heels and Devils for year's to come.
05-01-2003 01:43 PM
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Post: #55
 
JD Heel Wrote:This is one post I agree with you 100 percent on!

-JD
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05-01-2003 01:44 PM
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Lucy
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Post: #56
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:They didn't win last year because they had to play at NC against a team shooting 56% from the 2 and 3 (who in turn rolled over the next game).
There was no way any team was going to shoot 56% 2 days in a row. That is one reason UNC lost to Duke the next day...the other is that Duke was a better team, not that UNC rolled over.
05-01-2003 02:33 PM
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Lucy
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Post: #57
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:Let's also not forget that we don't need Miami or VA tech to come in for more football competition. Last time I checked the ACC had 4 teams ranked in the top 15. We don't need the help. We are growing better football teams faster than any other conference in the NCAA. I'll take my chances with what we have.
Amen! Hopefully the university presidents will agree in their upcoming meeting.
05-01-2003 02:34 PM
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Post: #58
 
Lucy Wrote:There was no way any team was going to shoot 56% 2 days in a row. That is one reason UNC lost to Duke the next day...the other is that Duke was a better team, not that UNC rolled over.
Which begs the question...Does home-court advantage really help? Obviously it helped NC State that day. The next day they didn't have such a large fan base thus they played normally (which wasn't even close to good enough). I mean look at MD. They can shoot over 50% at home on a regular basis and under 40% on the road on a regular basis. Same with Duke. Same with NC State. Same with NC. Get it?
05-01-2003 02:45 PM
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JD Heel
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Post: #59
 
UNC -- and especially State -- are always going to have a bigger crowd pulling for them against dook than against Maryland. I still don't understand why you think there is this big "Let's gang up on Maryland" sentiment among all the Big Four fans. It's not like that at all.

If either UNC or State last year had been in those games against dook, the fans would have gone wild. They were just blowouts from the start, plain and simple -- there was no chance for a crowd to get into the game. The fans were probably asleep by the 10-minute mark of the first half.

We lost to dook because -- like you said -- we were inconsistent and poorly coached at times. Maryland took us lightly, and we had a lot of incentive to beat them (after getting trounced earlier that year). We didn't have as much to prove against dook because we'd beaten them a week before. Plus, we were just spent after the Maryland game, physically and mentally. dook took advantage of all of that.

We started off badly both games of this year's tourney. But, Maryland kept us in the first round game, whereas dook put us away early. It had nothing to do with the crowd.

-JD



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05-01-2003 04:02 PM
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Lucy
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Post: #60
 
kaisersayzo Wrote:
Lucy Wrote:There was no way any team was going to shoot 56% 2 days in a row. &nbsp;That is one reason UNC lost to Duke the next day...the other is that Duke was a better team, not that UNC rolled over.
Which begs the question...Does home-court advantage really help? Obviously it helped NC State that day. The next day they didn't have such a large fan base thus they played normally (which wasn't even close to good enough). I mean look at MD. They can shoot over 50% at home on a regular basis and under 40% on the road on a regular basis. Same with Duke. Same with NC State. Same with NC. Get it?
And Wake Forest is the exception to the norm, as usual... 03-wink

I researched our 2003 home shooting percentage vs. away shooting percentage (not including post-season)...next to no difference:

Home shooting percentage: 46.55%
Away shooting percentage: 45.34%

I knew we were a fairly consistent team, but these numbers help confirm that impression for me.

I think in many games it all comes down to who you are playing, and how much of a rivalry is perceived by the team.

Examples: We played Wisconsin in Madison and were the deciding factor in the ACC winning the ACC/Big 10 Challenge. Despite a HUGE home crowd of Badgers, Wake shot 54.1% from the field and won that game, ending Wisconsin's 26 game home winning streak.

The other examples would be our 2 games against NC State this year. We won both games, shooting 56.2% at home and 54.9% in Raleigh. Why were we so up for these games? Because of the intensity of the games played between the 2 teams over the past 5 years. Wake & State have really picked up the sense of rivalry in basketball, and so the desire to win really emerged in the games.

I firmly believe that the fan presence is a factor in a win or loss, but it is not the end all/be all, nor the deciding factor. It comes down to how well the team is playing together (as opposed to a bunch of stars who don't gel as a team). If a team is having chemistry problems, they'll lose more often than not, and will lose even at home in front of an arena full of their fans.
05-01-2003 11:34 PM
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