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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #41
 
<a href='http://www.djhlights.blogspot.com/' target='_blank'>This site</a> claims to have a brain scan.

[Image: brain.jpg]
The one on the right is supposedly Schiavo's.

The got it from <a href='http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/videoplayer/newVid/small_player/cbsnews_videoplayer.shtml?clip=/media/2005/03/17/video681469.rm&sec=3420&vidId=3420&title=Debating' target='_blank'>this video</a>.

That said I'm not qualified to interprete these images, or tell you how they were produced (CAT, MRI, Magic??). 03-razz
03-22-2005 12:57 PM
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Post: #42
 
This guy broke ALL vows he had with Terri. This should be left up to the parents.
03-22-2005 01:01 PM
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GeForce2 Offline
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Post: #43
 
Bush changed his stance?



Ethicists: Bush changed stance
BY CRAIG GORDON
WASHINGTON BUREAU

March 22, 2005

WASHINGTON -- As Texas governor, George W. Bush signed a law that allows hospitals to pull the plug on critically ill patients despite family objections - the kind of court-authorized move the president and fellow Republicans are challenging in the Terri Schiavo case.

Just last Tuesday, the Texas law resulted in what some call a U.S. first, when a Houston hospital cut off life support for a badly deformed 6-month-old baby after his mother lost a court challenge. The baby died almost immediately.


<a href='http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbush224186328mar22,0,3998982.story' target='_blank'>http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...0,3998982.story</a>
03-22-2005 01:06 PM
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Rebel
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Post: #44
 
When I get the full details on that, I'll debate it. If he did under the same circumstances, then he's a hypocrite. As of right now, Bush isn't even in my damn mind. :bang:
03-22-2005 01:14 PM
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HorseGlue Offline
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Post: #45
 
Here are the most widely available CAT scans
[Image: CT%20scan.png]
Terri's brain
[Image: cat_scan.jpg]
A normal brain

As you can see in Terri's brain, there are large empty black areas. This is where her brain used to be before it died and was replaced by spinal fluid. It's gone and it's not coming back. One doctory put it best, "The debate we are having is the equivalent of telling an amputee that there is a chance there leg will grow back. It's not possible to do that."
03-22-2005 01:28 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #46
 
GeForce2 Wrote:Bush changed his stance?



Ethicists: Bush changed stance
BY CRAIG GORDON
WASHINGTON BUREAU

March 22, 2005

WASHINGTON -- As Texas governor, George W. Bush signed a law that allows hospitals to pull the plug on critically ill patients despite family objections - the kind of court-authorized move the president and fellow Republicans are challenging in the Terri Schiavo case.

Just last Tuesday, the Texas law resulted in what some call a U.S. first, when a Houston hospital cut off life support for a badly deformed 6-month-old baby after his mother lost a court challenge. The baby died almost immediately.


<a href='http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbush224186328mar22,0,3998982.story' target='_blank'>http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/na...0,3998982.story</a>
I think there is an important distinction to be made. If you're talking about a respirator or something to keep the heart pumping, then you're talking about artificially keeping a body alive.

If you're talking about a feeding tube, that's very different b/c everybody needs to eat.

I object to the media trying to equate the two. That's where their bias shows. I'm sick of the lack of objectivity by a group of people who take the easiest path to a college degree, and have had their minds made up since they were 15. If I wanted childish answers, I'd let my kids run my life.
03-22-2005 01:37 PM
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1125 Offline
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Post: #47
 
It does not matter if she is not going to be able to walk or talk again...She is still alive and she has the right to stay alive...Sure most of you are going to say but she her husband at one point that she does not want to live artifically...That is not ture...Did anyone hear the sound byte of Terri and her father? He asked her a question wheteher she wanted to die...Then she started to scream as loud as she could...Just because she cannot speak the same language as you and I does not mean you can kill her...Her language is moaning, groaning, and yelling. Believe me she is alive
03-22-2005 01:39 PM
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wpblazer Offline
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Post: #48
 
Here is another timeline for this case with some links. One of the people that contributes to this site (Cerminara) is one of my law professors.

<a href='http://www.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/timeline.htm' target='_blank'>Timeline</a>
03-22-2005 01:46 PM
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wpblazer Offline
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Post: #49
 
UCBearcats1125 Wrote:Did anyone hear the sound byte of Terri and her father? He asked her a question wheteher she wanted to die...Then she started to scream as loud as she could...Just because she cannot speak the same language as you and I does not mean you can kill her...Her language is moaning, groaning, and yelling. Believe me she is alive
Again, the only problem with this is how long did he sit there and do that before he got that reaction. Just like everything else, you can't just take the video at face value.

The Florida judge watched the videos in their entirety, and commented on them in his decision.

For those of you that are interested his decision is very informative. - <a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf' target='_blank'>Link</a>
03-22-2005 01:52 PM
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gruehls
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Post: #50
 
RebelKev Wrote:
wpblazer Wrote:This man has reportedly been offered $10 million to walk away, and refused.

There is no way he stands to make that much from her death, so its hard to see how money plays into the equation.
Someone else tried to get me with that. However, they couldn't prove it either. As of now, it's just unsubstantiated BS.
i've not seen anything on a $10 million offer, but i did see this $1million offer:


<a href='http://www.infowars.com/articles/life/schiavo_husband_offered_1_million.htm' target='_blank'>Schiavo's husband offered $1 million </a>
03-22-2005 02:12 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #51
 
wpblazer Wrote:For those of you that are interested his decision is very informative. - <a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf' target='_blank'>Link</a>
I guess you and I have a different opinion on what's informative.
03-22-2005 02:14 PM
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wpblazer Offline
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Post: #52
 
gruehls Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
wpblazer Wrote:This man has reportedly been offered $10 million to walk away, and refused.

There is no way he stands to make that much from her death, so its hard to see how money plays into the equation.
Someone else tried to get me with that. However, they couldn't prove it either. As of now, it's just unsubstantiated BS.
i've not seen anything on a $10 million offer, but i did see this $1million offer:


<a href='http://www.infowars.com/articles/life/schiavo_husband_offered_1_million.htm' target='_blank'>Schiavo's husband offered $1 million </a>
Here's a story that quotes his attorney on a $10 million offer

<a href='http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4860072,00.html' target='_blank'>Link</a>
03-22-2005 02:16 PM
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wpblazer Offline
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Post: #53
 
DrTorch Wrote:
wpblazer Wrote:For those of you that are interested his decision is very informative. - <a href='http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf' target='_blank'>Link</a>
I guess you and I have a different opinion on what's informative.
Apparently we do...I think the actual court document stating the Judge's opinion, and the reasons for it, is pretty informative. At least its not tainted with the inherent bias given to the story by every reporter that writes about it.

Of course, you may feel that the judge has his own bias, and that makes this less informative. If so, the only place you'll get better information is if you interview all of the witnesses yourself.
03-22-2005 02:22 PM
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Bourgeois_Rage Away
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Post: #54
 
I'd say it's informative because It states what the judge based his decision on. This is not to say it is right or wrong, just that it is a primary source explaining the reasoning of the decision.

I really don't undertsand how one can say it isn't informative. A person can say it's biased or misleading, but not uninformative. Or am I missing something?
03-22-2005 02:32 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #55
 
Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:I'd say it's informative because It states what the judge based his decision on. This is not to say it is right or wrong, just that it is a primary source explaining the reasoning of the decision.

I really don't undertsand how one can say it isn't informative. A person can say it's biased or misleading, but not uninformative. Or am I missing something?
Ok, ok. It's modestly informative...just as you say. It gives a superficial accounting of what the judge has seen...and some juicy commentary along the way to show he was paying attention.

It's very liberal arts.

But, where is the substance? The details that are relavent?

I could wax poetically about laboratory equipment: the glow of LEDs, the hum of transformers and the rhythm of vacuum pumps...but that wouldn't do a damn thing to provide suitable data. It wouldn't answer any science or engineering questions. It wouldn't solve problems.

Very informative? Perhaps. Worth a damn? Nope.
03-22-2005 02:37 PM
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Post: #56
 
anyone want my wife for $10 million?
03-22-2005 02:48 PM
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Post: #57
 
DrTorch Wrote:[Ok, ok. It's modestly informative...just as you say. It gives a superficial accounting of what the judge has seen...and some juicy commentary along the way to show he was paying attention.

It's very liberal arts.

But, where is the substance? The details that are relavent?

I could wax poetically about laboratory equipment: the glow of LEDs, the hum of transformers and the rhythm of vacuum pumps...but that wouldn't do a damn thing to provide suitable data. It wouldn't answer any science or engineering questions. It wouldn't solve problems.

Very informative? Perhaps. Worth a damn? Nope.
I see what you are saying, but the only way anyone will ever get any more details than that is by reading through the entire record, which I'm sure none of us are prepared to do.

I was actually shocked by how much information it contains. Most trial court orders are pro forma and provide basically nothing as far as the details are concerned.
03-22-2005 02:59 PM
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Post: #58
 
<a href='http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles3/carla_sauer_iyer_affidavit.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004...r_affidavit.htm</a>
03-22-2005 07:29 PM
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Post: #59
 
As far as the video you see on the news goes, those clips of her acting responsive are a "highlight" reel of literally hundreds of hours of video. An example, I'm convinced my voice can control the movement of trees. If I watch a tree blow in the wind for long enough with a video camera, it's going to look as though it's responded to something I said. The judge ruled that it was clear her actions are random and that basically the parents are seeing what they want to see. Just like somebody constantly searching for a ghost is going to see what they think is a ghost eventually.

Anyways the bottom line is the judge listened to the facts in the case and got his ruling right. With the exception of her brain stem, her brain is not only dead; the dead tissue has been consumed and disposed of by the body. The area where her brain used to be is now filled in with spinal fluid.

No credible doctor(or one who's not being paid to) will dispute that there is no chance she can recover any of this lost brain tissue. The court ruled that she cannot and will not recover. They also ruled that no one has ever recovered from brain damage of this extent ever. They were right. The area of her brain that processes pain is also completely gone. These are all undisputable medical facts.

Having said that, if her parents want to keep her "alive" and pay for it, I don't see why they can't.
03-23-2005 12:29 AM
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Post: #60
 
HorseGlue Wrote:No credible doctor(or one who's not being paid to) will dispute that there is no chance she can recover any of this lost brain tissue. The court ruled that she cannot and will not recover. They also ruled that no one has ever recovered from brain damage of this extent ever. They were right. The area of her brain that processes pain is also completely gone. These are all undisputable medical facts.

Having said that, if her parents want to keep her "alive" and pay for it, I don't see why they can't.
Dr. William Hammesfahr, Nobel Prize nominee, says she does have a chance.

You might want to refrain from that, "Well, if the courts say so, then I guess we must" attitude. I can think of 10 million ways where that can effect you, and everyone else. The courts are not all-knowing. They are ALSO not the final word, for you see, in this country we have something called "Checks and Balances".

This girl isn't dead, ....yet. ....and the husband should be charged with reckless endangerment at least, attempted murder at most. You guys are going on HIS word ALONE. This, a guy who has had two kids with another woman and is living with. Why doesn't he divorce her? He says he doesn't believe in divorce. ???? BUT YOU BELIEVE IN STICKING YOUR LOVE COMMANDO IN ANOTHER WOMAN WHILE YOU'RE STILL MARRIED????? STFU Michael Schiavo.
03-23-2005 12:37 AM
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