RebelKev Wrote:Seriously, your argument is slipping.

Please take me back and show me where he had one to begin with.

10MAN Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:Seriously, your argument is slipping.

Please take me back and show me where he had one to begin with.

:lolup: True dat.

I think I'll start my own "national championship." We shall call it the Schadefreude Rating System

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


It's 9AM. Wakeup from your dream sleepyhead. Reality is awaiting.

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:And you will cling to that until the day hell freezes over (read: when BG wins one).

:stupid:
Like most fans who do not have a Bowl Cartel team he will probabaly hold onto that until the NCAA sanctions a national title in 1-A Football. The BcS is a system based on popularity that is more subjective than objective. I don't even want to hear arguments about how the BCS teams were in those bowl games for 20 years before the BCS (duh, conference tie-ins). The BCS is based on Polls and other flawed methods, period.

BCS

Here's a thought: Play better football and play it consistently.

klordway Wrote:

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:And you will cling to that until the day hell freezes over (read: when BG wins one).

:stupid:
Like most fans who do not have a Bowl Cartel team he will probabaly hold onto that until the NCAA sanctions a national title in 1-A Football. The BcS is a system based on popularity that is more subjective than objective. I don't even want to hear arguments about how the BCS teams were in those bowl games for 20 years before the BCS (duh, conference tie-ins). The BCS is based on Polls and other flawed methods, period.

BCS

I believe in playoffs.

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Here's a thought: Play better football and play it consistently.

I'm sure precious few people outside of Ohio, Michigan and parts of Canada have heard of Chuck Ealey. It's a damned shame, too.

Ealey grew up in Portsmouth, Ohio, right on the Ohio River, where people tend to talk a little funny. Damn good athlete though. So good, in fact, that he never once lost a game as a high school quarterback.

Problem for Ealey was, he was black -- which might explain how he ended up at Toledo instead of a more pedigreed school.

Too bad for those other schools -- and very, very good for Toledo. Ealey was a phenom there.

How good?

Ealey never lost a game at Toledo. He led the Rockets to three straight perfect seasons, three straight MAC championships, three straight Tangerine Bowl wins. He was 35-0 with the Rockets.

Think of it: A team that went straight years without even a tie to blemish its record. Even today, that's the second-longest winning streak in major college football history.

Yet the nation reacted with a yawn.

The AP mulled over that 35-game winning streak at the end of the 1971 season and ranked the Rockets ... 14th.

Heisman voters mulled over a kid who never lost a game in college or high school and voted him ... eighth best.

NFL scouts looked over this kid who seemed blessed by god never to lose a football game in his whole life and ... ignored him. He wasn't drafted at all.

The epilogue: Ealey ended up in Hamilton, Ontario, where he led the Tiger-Cats to a Grey Cup championship. In his rookie season.

So, fellas, excuse me if all your talk about these supposed national championships and Heisman trophies and "play(ing) better football and play(ing) it consistently" doesn't impress me. Chuck Ealey did all he could possibly do for three years at Toledo. Yet the Rockets couldn't even crack the top ten, and Ealey ended up in Canada.

Y'all can shove all that ****** about national championships up your ****** as far as I'm concerned.

If any BCS program had done what Northern Illinois has done so far, they'd be in the top eight and talking seriously about a so-called national title. Yet Northern Illinois doesn't even know if it's going to a bowl game at this point.

Seriously. Shove all your national championship ****** back up your ****** where it belongs.

For more on Ealey, check out this column that originally appeared in USA Today right after the Fiesta Bowl:

<a href='http://www.centralohio.com/ohiostate/stories/20030110/football/748166.html' target='_blank'>http://www.centralohio.com/ohiostate/stori...all/748166.html</a>

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Here's a thought: Play better football and play it consistently.

So, are you saying a team with a history that doesn't equal that of Ohio St. or Alabama or a team from a conference thatdoes not play consistently good ball can't be the best in the nation. Since the inception of the BCS two teams have gone undefeated and been denied BCS bowls (i.e. the ability to play for a "national title"). Tulane pretty much killed everyone on their schedule in 1998 and finished #10 in the BCS ratings while Marshall went undefeated in 2000. Both teams were denied a opportunity to play for the "national title". Any sytem where an undefeated team is denied the opportunity of playing for a national title is seriously flawed to the point to where legitimacy must be questioned at best. The BCS uses the Strength of Schedule to justify this, which really penalizes teams not in the BCS conferences, due to conference affiliations. Almost all MAC fans will realize the bottom half of the conference is really bad (in fact among the nations worst). In fact if you go to the MAC board, there is almost a weekly discussion about kicking out teams (usually based on attendance, which results from years of poor football). Since 1997 when Marshall came back to the MAC the conference has greatly improved on the football field (at least the top half). The MAC is not a Toledo and MArshall two trick pony. NIU is currently ranked and Bowling Green has beaten a ranked Big 10 team and is 3-1. W.Michigan has represented the MAC West 2 of the first four MAC Championships (a real championship, with objective criteria for inclusion). In 2000 the Broncos(9-3) became the first MAC team to win in Huntington before being upset in the MACC. The Broncos have slipped lately while Bowling Green and NIU have picked up the slack
BCS logic: The non-BCS schools do not have the recruiting power of the BCS schools since the chance that they could go to a premier bowl is slim
therefore they are not as "good" as the BCS teams and not deserving of a BCS bowl
as a result they do not draw the recruits to get them to that point.
This is at best circular reasoning and logic.

I know I've rambled but I had several points that I wanted to show relating to the MAC and BCS.

Racism in Ohio Schad? NOOOOO, tell me it isn't so!!!!!


I seriously doubt it was racism as black players were being drafted into the NFL, FROM the South and everywhere else, and playing at great colleges during that time frame. Could it have been because of Toledo's SOS? Also, how can you credit one guy for the teams success? This isn't basketball.

klordway Wrote:Tulane pretty much killed everyone on their schedule in 1998 and finished #10 in the BCS ratings while Marshall went undefeated in 2000. Both teams were denied a opportunity to play for the "national title".

It takes more than that. Just winning doesn't matter as much as who you are winning against. Tulane didn't have the strong schedule that other schools had.

klordway Wrote:

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Here's a thought: Play better football and play it consistently.

So, are you saying a team with a history that doesn't equal that of Ohio St. or Alabama or a team from a conference thatdoes not play consistently good ball can't be the best in the nation. Since the inception of the BCS two teams have gone undefeated and been denied BCS bowls (i.e. the ability to play for a "national title"). Tulane pretty much killed everyone on their schedule in 1998 and finished #10 in the BCS ratings while Marshall went undefeated in 2000. Both teams were denied a opportunity to play for the "national title". Any sytem where an undefeated team is denied the opportunity of playing for a national title is seriously flawed to the point to where legitimacy must be questioned at best. The BCS uses the Strength of Schedule to justify this, which really penalizes teams not in the BCS conferences, due to conference affiliations. Almost all MAC fans will realize the bottom half of the conference is really bad (in fact among the nations worst). In fact if you go to the MAC board, there is almost a weekly discussion about kicking out teams (usually based on attendance, which results from years of poor football). Since 1997 when Marshall came back to the MAC the conference has greatly improved on the football field (at least the top half). The MAC is not a Toledo and MArshall two trick pony. NIU is currently ranked and Bowling Green has beaten a ranked Big 10 team and is 3-1. W.Michigan has represented the MAC West 2 of the first four MAC Championships (a real championship, with objective criteria for inclusion). In 2000 the Broncos(9-3) became the first MAC team to win in Huntington before being upset in the MACC. The Broncos have slipped lately while Bowling Green and NIU have picked up the slack
BCS logic: The non-BCS schools do not have the recruiting power of the BCS schools since the chance that they could go to a premier bowl is slim
therefore they are not as "good" as the BCS teams and not deserving of a BCS bowl
as a result they do not draw the recruits to get them to that point.
This is at best circular reasoning and logic.

I know I've rambled but I had several points that I wanted to show relating to the MAC and BCS.

Pssst, words that do not appear in that little quote-box were not said by me. What I am saying: every year or so, a mid-major team has a breakout season. The problem with that is they usually tend to fold late or not follow it up the next season. How about you link me to Tulane and Marshall's undefeated schedules before you tell me how astonished I should be. Did they beat Top 10 teams? At least a Top 25er? (I honestly do not know but figure since you are quick to point out the afflictions of the MAC, you won't mind digging those up for visual aid).) Unless it's food, don't put things in my mouth.

And Schade, that's a truly crappy situation you laid out for Mr Ealey. Guess what though. That was thirty years ago. Deal with it. I'm quite sure he has.

RebelKev Wrote:I seriously doubt it was racism as black players were being drafted into the NFL, FROM the South and everywhere else, and playing at great colleges during that time frame.

Reb, you seriously doubt *anything* is racism.

Ealey preceded Warren Moon by years, and Moon clearly got hosed by the NFL because of his skin color.

I can't think of a single black NFL quarterback in 1972. Can you?

cant_think_of_a_witty_name Wrote:Pssst, words that do not appear in that little quote-box were not said by me. What I am saying: every year or so, a mid-major team has a breakout season. The problem with that is they usually tend to fold late or not follow it up the next season. How about you link me to Tulane and Marshall's undefeated schedules before you tell me how astonished I should be. Did they beat Top 10 teams? At least a Top 25er? (I honestly do not know but figure since you are quick to point out the afflictions of the MAC, you won't mind digging those up for visual aid).) Unless it's food, don't put things in my mouth.

And Schade, that's a truly crappy situation you laid out for Mr Ealey. Guess what though. That was thirty years ago. Deal with it. I'm quite sure he has.

I did acknowledge that I rambled. I was also ponering some other posts as well as anticipating responses. Tulane and Marshall did not have strong schedules at all, but remember in an 11 game schedule you only have three opponents that the university controls. These 2 schools did all they could do. BCS schools do not want to play these types of schools. If they dig into these conferences they want E. Michigan, Buffalo or Houston. Remember the Maryland team of about 5 years ago; well they sucked. They also scheduled E.Michigan and N. Illinois which also sucked and were from the MAC. They thought these were games they could win no matter how bad they were and guess what MD got good as well as NIU (EMU still sucks), and NIU beat #15 MAryland to start the season. I find it hard to buy the SOS argument unless the NCAA is dictating schedules since a so-so or even Good ACC team can just refuse to schedule Marshall, Toledo, Colorado St. etc. therefore causing some of these teams to get the bad BCS teams(Temple, Rutgers, Duke, Baylor,Vanderbilt and Indiana) or other non-BCSers. Considering that College FB teams have a turnover of everyone on the field every 5 years (redshirts) unless a school has a major history they may not draw those kinda recruits every year and may only have the right combination for one year. NIU has beaten two ranked teams and will have to beat a conference foe with a top ten win, so would you agree it would be a major injustice if they went undefeated and was denied a BCS bowl.

Yes, I would say that's an injustice.

I see you touched on my consistency point. Whether or not it's fair, MACers will have to overcome their roster turnover problems. It's going to take phenomenal season after phenomenal season to get consideration from the powers that be. Until then, the MAC will be viewed as the conference with Marshall, Toledo, and a couple of upsets here and there.

I couldn't help but notice that Chuck Ealey was brought up in this. No matter what anyone says, nobody has yet to match what Ealey did, and no one probably ever will. It's more than what he did at Toledo. You see, he did not lose 1 single game during his high school and college career. That's right. He went undefeated in high school and in college. I don't think that will ever be equaled by anyone in any division of high school and college football.

Schadenfreude Wrote:And, yes, it was a tough week for the MAC, but it hardly invalidates what the league has accomplished this year. It doesn't negate points I've made, which are that:

1. Bowling Green would be playing in a bowl game if it played a Big Ten schedule this year.
2. Mississippi would not win either MAC division this year.

It is also worth pointing out that Northern Illinois appeared to have an easier time beating Alabama than did Arkansas... one of the teams y'all supposed would roll through the MAC.

But I would argue Northern Illinois and Bowling Green remain underrated, at least in relationship to particular teams.

The prime example is No. 16 Kansas State (4-1). There is no way the Wildcats' schedule comes close to what Northern Illinois (4-0) has survived and there is no way Kansas State's lone loss at home to Marshall should be treated with more respect than Bowling Green's lone loss at Ohio State.

Kansas State is benefiting from BCS privlege. People are suspending disbelief about Kansas State in a way they never would with a MAC program.

Another example is No. 22 Purdue (3-1). Their lone loss was at home to Bowling Green, whose lone loss was at No. 4 Ohio State. Yet Bowling Green is mired off the charts at No. 28.

No way this makes any sense.

Anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting Florida or Arkansas wouldn't be serious MAC favorites if they played in our league. But to suggest they would just blow through the league strikes me as a bit extreme.

It's obvious to me that any of the MAC's five best programs could trip up either of these schools. One trip is all it would take for Florida or Arkansas to finish second in either division.

And, in the MAC, second place has never been good enough for a bowl game.

Just a little say here....

NIU might've had an easier time, but let's face it... Alabama didn't exactly get pumped up to play Northern Illinois.

That's what everyone also seems to forget as well. I'm not saying Toledo or Marshall or any MAC team didn't deserve to or earn their victories...but there's no way Alabama put the same emotion and fire into their game with Northern Illinois then they did with Arkansas...or Oklahoma for that matter. We faced Alabama at their absolute best, toughest, and most fired up...NIU didn't come close to facing that.

Yes, I agree that the polls are crazy. Finallly, FINALLY, Arkansas was ranked ahead of Texas in the coaches poll this week.

I've had no respect for Kansas State in the polls, and unless they beat Texas @ Austin this Saturday (which I doubt will happen, but might), I see no reason to list em as Top 20 or Top 25. I agree that Bowling Green, at this point, should be ahead of both KSU and Purdue.

Plus, the point is true that any team can beat any other team at any given time.

A playoff system for 1-A football sounds like a good idea... my question is this though. After the NCAA creates an RPI system, which will include strength of schedule, and in a 16 or 32 team field, the BCS teams take almost all, if not all, the at-large spots, will we be all the way back to square one?

WPS

PS - For all the MAC folks...check out the CFN 117 poll, which has Bowling Green at #17, Northern Illinois at #21, and Kansas State....at #37.


<a href='http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2003/Rankings/CFN_Rankings.htm' target='_blank'>CFN 117 Poll</a>

And yes, nat'l titles in 1-A don't count on NCAA records... http://www.ncaachampionships.com ... however, if you count the rest... only 4 schools have more nat'l titles than UA, who has 39.

Ealey got screwed. I am not saying he didn't.

calling_the_hogs Wrote:Just a little say here....

NIU might've had an easier time, but let's face it... Alabama didn't exactly get pumped up to play Northern Illinois.

That's what everyone also seems to forget as well. I'm not saying Toledo or Marshall or any MAC team didn't deserve to or earn their victories...but there's no way Alabama put the same emotion and fire into their game with Northern Illinois then they did with Arkansas...or Oklahoma for that matter. We faced Alabama at their absolute best, toughest, and most fired up...NIU didn't come close to facing that.

That's Alabama's fault then. NIU beat Maryland who was ranked higher than Alabama at the time. NIU has a legitimate Heisman candidate that the media has talked about.

If Alabama could not get up to play NIU then they have a serious coaching problem there.

Maybe so...they only have a first-year coach.

But unless you play in the MAC, 99.9% of teams across this country would be more fired up and pumped up to play Arkansas than they would Northern Illinois. Even some MAC teams would prolly be more fired up for a game against us.

You're dreaming if you think otherwise.

WPS