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rickheel Offline
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Post: #41
 
A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came upon a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his card and invited him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person. The Democrat took note and was very impressed, so when they came to another homeless person, he too decided to help. He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office, then reached into the Republican's pocket and gave him fifty dollars. He also felt REALLY proud for having rendered assistance. That about says it all.


this is fun...what you can find if you have too much time on your hands. :wave:
04-09-2003 07:59 AM
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rickheel Offline
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04-09-2003 08:01 AM
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04-09-2003 08:04 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #44
 
And, to tie it all together............all in fun you know.............

The Hypocritic Oath
June 12, 2001
It's The Pitts By Lee Pitts
I swear an oath on my honor as a hypocrite that...
I will cuss cows but eat beef, blast miners but wear jewelry and drive a car but condemn oil companies. I don't want trees cut for any purpose other than to provide the lumber for my next house. As a Hollywood celebrity I assert my God given right to sire at least four children by three different wives and then protest about overpopulation in the world.

I will put fish first by saving the sucker and salmon, but not the farmers and ranchers who feed me. I demand that politicians and federal judges in Washington save all endangered species, except the small business man. I feel government is imminently qualified to micro- manage nature, after all, look what a smashing job they've done with the IRS, EPA, USDA, FBI, BLM and assorted other alphabet agencies.

As a self-righteous hypocrite it is my duty to celebrate Earth Day with barbecues and parades and by leaving tons of trash behind. I demand that feedlots and farms stop polluting our ground water. That privilege should be preserved for me every time I flush the contents of my toilet into a septic tank or the ocean.

I want to relocate grizzly bears and wolves to the West but not in my big-city backyard. After all, people live here! I give my permission for mountains lions to eat lambs but if a lion eats my dog or cat I demand the abominable beast be shot on sight.

I will cuss oil companies on talk radio and stand in the way of their drilling more wells while sitting in my gas guzzling SUV with the engine running. I will write letters to the editor on my computer castigating utility companies for not providing enough electricity. At the same time I will send money to green groups who want to tear down hydroelectric dams and stand in the way of any new power producing projects.

I avow at the next cocktail party I attend while smoking a cigarette and sipping a martini that I will sue the tobacco companies for causing my lung cancer.

Although I have never personally milked a cow or grown vegetables in a garden I demand to have a say on how farmers and ranchers do it. As a pompous hypocrite I demand that water, herbicides, and pesticides be taken away from farmers immediately, but I don't want it to affect the price, quantity or quality of the food I buy in the store. It is my strongly held conviction that we should ban all pesticides, except the can of bug spray I use to kill ants and other unwanted bugs in my home.

As a mealy-mouthed hypocrite I vow to help stop global warming by watching the Discovery Channel on my giant sized television in my air-conditioned house.

I assert that cattle pooping on our nation's grasslands is a national disgrace while fertilizing my urban lawn with steer manure and urea is simply good ecology. I will complain about fertilizer runoff from farms but not from golf courses because I happen to be a golfer.

I will hound hunters in the woods because they use guns despite the fact that hunting groups have increased habitat and wildlife numbers. I demand that the government end all timber cutting or recovery in our national forests but I'll cry like a singed coyote if the feds allow wildfires to burn near my house.

As a card-carrying hypocrite I disavow the use of fur, leather, wool and all animal by-products, except the ones used in medicine that might save my life. I demand labels be placed on all food products but not on a rock album that endorses killing cops.

Finally, as an arrogant and self-serving hypocrite I firmly believe that rural folks have done a terrible job of taking care of the countryside and they must do a better job because that's where I want to live or visit someday when I can escape the pollution, crime, and insanity of the barren big city in which I currently reside.
04-09-2003 08:07 AM
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RochesterFalcon Offline
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Post: #45
 
Quote:There is a distinct singular American culture - rugged individualism and self-reliance - which made America great.

Of course, the subtext of this statement is *selfishness* also made America great.

This is what you are really saying: If some people's ability to compete without a little help means they fall behind, then tough luck. This is your proposition. You said SELF reliance.

I don't agree with that. Hard work is good. But self-reliance isn't enough. Not for everyone.

The nation is vastly different than it was before the industrial revolution. Most of us live in cities or suburbs, not farms. We are a highly urban and suburban society. Education is a key to our futures in a way it wasn't in our nation's agrarian era, when a man might get by just fine on what he could do with this hands and public education was not universial.

My point: Some of the frontier values that served us well during the Civil War are not necessarily as relevant today. Just as it would be ridiculous for us to take up owning slaves -- as many of our Founding Fathers did -- it is ridculous to assume all our other 18th century values, such as self-reliance, should enter the 21st century unchanged.

Don't read into this post a denial of the value of hard work. Hard work is good. But selfishness is not. And you seem to be endorsing selfishness.

America is what we make of it. No one has a monopoly on what it means to be an American. If you believe rugged individualism is the zen of being an American, fine. But you don't own America's meaning. No one does.

Quote:The vast majority of the rich in this country ... earned it. They are the country's achievers, producers, and job creators.

This implies all the poor deserve to be poor. We'll never agree on this.

And we don't agree on much else, either.

Bill Gates is at least a million times wealthier than I am. But he didn't work a million times harder than I have.

He worked hard -- and then he hit the economic equvalent of the lottery.

That's the story with most rich people. They worked hard -- AND they got very, very lucky.

Quote:did not inherit their wealth;

Of course, the GOP wants to change this. I find that inexplicable. For all their prattle about hard work, what they really are trying to do is ensure people can get rich *without* working for it.

Quote:No nation has ever taxed itself into prosperity.

Rhetoric -- and quickly dismissed by the facts. Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy in 1993. The greatest economic expansion since World War II followed.

Quote:Evidence refutes liberalism.

Not your "evidence."

Quote:There is no such thing as a New Democrat.

Wrong. Al Gore and Bill Clinton are clearly far different from traditional Democrats. The most obvious example was their support of NAFTA. Traditional Democrats could not stomach that treaty. Clinton pushed it through.

Quote:The Earth's eco-system is not fragile.

Neither am I. What's your point?

Quote:Character matters; leadership decends from character.

Character is overrated.

Our frat boy president is wrong on his war, he's wrong on his tax cuts for the wealthy, he's wrong on his deficit spending, he's wrong on Social Security.

Yet people are supposed to set all that aside because he found religion ten years ago and crawled out of the bottle?

That's ridiculous.

Quote:The most beautiful thing about a tree is what you do with it after you cut it down.

That's gross.

Quote:Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the twentieth century.

This, too, is gross.

(And, obviously, wrong. Pull out some pocket change and study your dimes).

Quote:The 1980s was not a decade of greed but a decade of prosperity; it was the longest period of peacetime growth in American history.

You left out "... until Bill Clinton."

Quote:Abstinence prevents sexually transmitted disease and pregnancy - every time it's tried.

Bush the 41st should have tried it.

Quote:Condoms only work during the school year.

More than one can say for Bush the 43rd.



<!--EDIT|RochesterFalcon|Apr 9 2003, 09:14 AM-->
04-09-2003 09:06 AM
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Post: #46
 
rickheel Wrote:<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/13/gore.ends.campaign/' target='_blank'>Call anyone right of center a ditto head......... I know it makes you feel better.........btw, Gore conceded, why wont you????</a>
Funny how everyone that spouts Rush's nonsense denies the connection these days.
04-09-2003 09:10 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #47
 
Quote:This is what you are really saying: If some people's ability to compete without a little help means they fall behind, then tough luck. This is your proposition. You said SELF reliance.

I don't agree with that. Hard work is good. But self-reliance isn't enough any more.

This is what family and friends are for. This is what religious philanthropy is for. This is what US charities - with donations virtually unmatched around the world - are for. Don't get me wrong, I think a safety net IS a good thing, and shouldn't be abolished. There's a happy medium here, and it needs to be lean, and not bloated to the point where a worker's paycheck turns into a bureaucratic grab bag.

Economic individualism does not equate endless greed and stuffing away loads of money under mattresses. It means having more control over where your (key word here) earned money goes. I can't understand those who are proponents of personal freedoms, but become angry at economic freedoms (and vice-versa).

I was on a different political message board a few months ago, and a liberal poster displayed disgust that Bush's $5 billion aid package to Africa came with a condition (something to do with none of the money can go to doctors performing abortions). The poster had every right to be irked, because Bush was spending his money in a way that he disagreed with. With private donations, the poster could write a check to anyone, anywhere. He would have control over the money he worked for. Needless to say, he was caught in a bit of a trap. :D

Quote:This implies the poor deserve to be poor. We'll never agree on this.

This is far too broad of a generalization here. Some are victims of "hard times" through no fault of their own. Some are where they are due to deliberately bad decisions made throughout their lives (i.e. if you decide to drop out of H.S., get repeatedly pregnant, turn to drugs, show up late for work all the time, get fired, etc, who deserves what here?). And many are in between.

Quote:Bill Gates is at least a million times wealthier than I am. But he didn't work a million times harder than I have.

But he's donated millions more than you and I have to charities (I have links to prove this). He's also provided millions more jobs than you and I ever have.

Quote:For all their prattle about hard work, what they really are trying to do is ensure people can get rich *without* working for it.

Regardless of what any of us think of spoiled rich kids, how dare anyone dictate that a man/woman cannot pass along their own earnings to their own children? Do we have any control of what we earn as a result of a contract between employer and employee? Why does it make more sense for a government employee to decide? Who are we to assume that the kids inheriting this money won't circulate this inheritance back into the economic engine via purchases and investments??

Quote:Al Gore and Bill Clinton are clearly far different from traditional Democrats. The most obvious example was their support of NAFTA. Traditional Democrats could not stomach that treaty. Clinton pushed it through.

Here I agree. Anyone who helps tear down the barriers of free international trade gets a good mark in my book. One shouldn't be "punished" for giving their business to a Mexican merchant over an American one, if that's the customer's choice.

Quote:Rhetoric -- and quickly dismissed by the facts. Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy in 1993. The greatest economic expansion since World War II followed ... You left out "... until Bill Clinton."

While I'm not his biggest fan, I don't have a huge axe to grind with Clinton. In fact, I'm not really a fan of pitting personalities ('my president's better than yours') or overall political parties against each other. I prefer issue by issue. But having said that, one cannot credit the 1990s surge entirely on the Clinton Administration (any more that we cannot completely blame Carter for the late 70s recession). There are many economic cause n' effect variables here, some that go all the way back to the Reaganomics/Thatcherism of the 1980s.

Quote:Character is overrated.

I agree again. Whether one inhaled on a doobie, or what one has done sexually, is someone else's chosen path and not my problem. It's the platform and performance that matter to me.

Quote:Our frat boy president is wrong on his war, he's wrong on his tax cuts for the wealthy, he's wrong on his deficit spending, he's wrong on Social Security.

I'm mixed on these. Some of these larger-than-life topics aren't as black-and-white as they appear, and are debatable. Each probably worth its own thread, so I won't comment on them.

Quote:That's gross.

The tree thing: I agree. Trees are a beautiful thing. :angel:
Reagan: Like my other comment... Some of his practices I disagree on, some I fully agree. Too large of a topic to give a full brush-stroke in one sentence.

Quote:Bush the 41st should have tried it.

Now you're just resorting to tit-for-tat counterproductive rhetoric.

Quote:More than one can say for Bush the 43rd.

See above.
04-09-2003 09:39 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #48
 
Oddball Wrote:Funny how everyone that spouts Rush's nonsense denies the connection these days.
Rush is generally nonsense. In fact, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore are one of the same cloth, albeit on opposite ends of the political spectrum. They both have some quick wit and have a knack for creating controversy through brash viewpoints. But both are also frequently full of hot air, "loose" with facts, and enjoy manipulating the media with their own pocketbooks in mind more than they'd like to lead on.
04-09-2003 09:49 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #49
 
Oddball Wrote:
rickheel Wrote:<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/13/gore.ends.campaign/' target='_blank'>Call anyone right of center a ditto head......... I know it makes you feel better.........btw, Gore conceded, why wont you????</a>
Funny how everyone that spouts Rush's nonsense denies the connection these days.
Funny how some people love to gather others, who do not agree with their views, into little slots.......... :rolleyes:
04-09-2003 10:17 AM
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Post: #50
 
Yeah, I know. Cracks me up how you dittoheads like to label moderates as "liberals" like it discredits anything anyone has to say.
04-09-2003 10:29 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Quote:And you seem to be endorsing selfishness.

Not endorsing anything of the sort. If I go out and work my ****** off for 15 to 18 hours a day for 10 years and build a business, is it selfish for me to reap the rewards??? You hire people who want to come to work to get a freaking paycheck, then ***** when you dont reward the hell out of them for putting in time. Point being, anyone...I MEAN ANYONE... can start a business if they see a need. Hell, if you dont do anything but buy an old pickup truck and haul junk, you can build it into a business, if you are willing to work. I am not entitled to anyfreaking thing. And I never asked for anything other than a chance. Dont give me the bs that anyone cannot do what I did. It was not handed to me, I busted my ****** for it.
04-09-2003 10:30 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #52
 
Ask family farmers about getting wealthy because of the death tax. :rolleyes:
04-09-2003 10:33 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #53
 
That's the story with most rich people. They worked hard -- AND they got very, very lucky.

That has to be the biggest pile of horse s h i t you have added around here. Let me ask you something.......what do you do for a living? Or, are you still in school?? What is you definition of rich? If you went out and invented something and became wealthy, would you feel guilty?
04-09-2003 10:39 AM
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RochesterFalcon Offline
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Post: #54
 
Quote:Not endorsing (selfishness or) anything of the sort. If I go out and work my ****** off for 15 to 18 hours a day for 10 years and build a business, is it selfish for me to reap the rewards???

Not at all. People who work hard should be rewarded. And, people who successfully build businesses always have been rewarded in America.

As for someone who, though hard work, has built up a nice business and attained some degree of personal wealth -- and then insists they deserve a personal income tax cut? In my mind, that person is selfish. It's even unpatriotic. America has been good to you. Give back to the country that has been good to you.

(I mean, it isn't like children of the wealthy have to do things like fight in Iraq).

Quote:anyone...I MEAN ANYONE... can start a business if they see a need. Hell, if you dont do anything but buy an old pickup truck and haul junk, you can build it into a business, if you are willing to work.

This might work. This might not. Most small businesses fail.

<a href='http://www.desmondconsulting.com/homepage_articles/why_do_small_business_fail.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.desmondconsulting.com/homepage_...siness_fail.htm</a>

Many, many things can go wrong. An established junk hauler could run me out of business. My pickup truck might break down, leaving me with no capital to buy a new one.

And, come on, let's face it, hauling junk isn't likely to put much food on the table. It might -- if I'm lucky. But I would need some luck.

Neither is working at Wal-Mart or McDonalds. Hard work might get someone to a place of self-sufficiency. But it might take a lot of hard work just to get to that place. What in the meantime?

The reality is, there are more people looking for jobs in America than there are jobs. Although the nation reached full employment (4 percent or so unemployment) in the late 1960s and late 1990s, historically, full employment is an anomaly.

What of the people left without jobs? And what of the people with jobs that don't pay enough to make ends meet?

This is where government helps. It helps with:

-- health insurance for the working poor (a major element of the 1996 welfare reform bill; previously, the prospect of losing health insurance work was a disincentive to work).
-- day care.
-- job training, so that the skills of people looking for work better match the skills in demand in the marketplace.
-- fighting addiction, so that people mired in alcohol or drugs can make themselves able to work and support a family on their own.
-- food stamps, ensuring that no one starves -- particularly children who didn't choose to grow up poor.
-- ensuring those too old to work can still be guaranteed a minimum standard of living.

Quote:I am not entitled to anyfreaking thing. And I never asked for anything other than a chance. Dont give me the bs that anyone cannot do what I did. It was not handed to me, I busted my ****** for it.

If you in fact did build up a business, that's great. But it doesn't work out that way for everyone.

My brother started a valet parking company. He lost his ******. He moved on, finished working on his bachelor's degree, got a decent job because of that education, and paid off his debts. He's doing okay. He even has some equity built up now.

But he had some advantages. He's smarter than the average bear. And he had parents who could afford to pull him through some rough patches. Not everyone has those advantages.

[quote]Ask family farmers about getting wealthy because of the death tax.
04-10-2003 08:54 AM
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RochesterFalcon Offline
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Post: #55
 
Incidentally, Motown, I'm not ignoring you. Your posts are very thoughtful. I just run out of time to get everything out I want to say.
04-10-2003 09:07 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #56
 
RochesterFalcon Wrote:Incidentally, Motown, I'm not ignoring you. Your posts are very thoughtful. I just run out of time to get everything out I want to say.
No problem RF! I understand that none of us have unlimited time to write/respond on message boards.

See ya on the MAC board (especially when the summer football rags come out at the bookstores). 03-wink
04-10-2003 09:19 AM
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just say no roy Offline
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Post: #57
 
Why is it so hard for you libs to understand that the money we earn does not belong to you. :bang:
04-10-2003 11:49 PM
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nate jonesacc Offline
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Post: #58
 
RF... you know why most small businesses fail? Because there are people who don't bust their ****** to make their business succeed. IMO, it's a rarity to find someone who has busted their ****** for ANYTHING, and not succeeded. And, I don't mean a half-assed, "I tried pretty hard" effort. I mean... they put in the time, the effort and the capital to give it a chance. I'm saying this as someone who knows many people who have worked from the very bottom to the very top.
04-11-2003 12:12 AM
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RochesterFalcon Offline
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Post: #59
 
Quote:Why is it so hard for you libs to understand that the money we earn does not belong to you. &nbsp;

Why is it so hard for conservatives to get over progressive income taxation 90 years after passage of the 16th Amendment?
04-11-2003 04:22 AM
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rickheel Offline
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Post: #60
 
Quote:America has been good to you. Give back to the country that has been good to you.


Tell me how much you paid in taxes last year. I bet I paid more in taxes then you made.
04-11-2003 06:55 AM
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