I have read a lot on these boards about degrees and where they come from and all kinds of horse-hockey. Let me start by saying that it's a very east coast thing to even put a lot of weight on this issue. The further west you go, the less people even care what your academic background is. Just trust me on this!

With that being said.. I have been in the professional world for almost 20 years now and I've worked for some great companies like AT&T, Nextel, Prime Retail (Prime Outlets), Simon Property Group (no doubt they own a mall near you) and now CitiFinancial.

Allow me to share something I learned a long time ago that is VERY true... even though some of you younger guys just don't want to believe it.

A college degree with get your resume to stay in the left pile, while the right pile gets thrown in the trash (sometimes). A college degree from an esteemed college will raise an eyebrow and get that resume onto the top of the pile.

However, after that.. the interview and the experience are EVERYTHING.

So, does a degree from Duke, or Pitt, or Yale help you? Of course! However, it doesn't help you nearly, NOT NEARLY as much as one would think.

Now, I will allow Nate and whomever to argue with me on this, but I have my experience to go by and I can add one more point here. WHAT your degree is in usually has LITTLE to do with what you end up doing in this world. Strange, but true. The only people I know that truly specialize in a field are ones that have advanced degrees for their professions.. doctors, lawyers, nurses, etc.

And since this is the VAA, I may as well sweeten the pot with this: We interviewed about 15 lawyers last week for 3 positions. 3 of them were Dookies... and neither of them got hired.. because they did not have the experience! One of them went to Salisbury State College.. and he was hired! Again.. he has the experience.. and he had a personality that will work well in our office!

Okay.. go at it...

The people in the human resource departments see thousands of resumes per year. Once you get past entry level (the period from just out of school to 3 years out), the educational institution from which you received your diploma means squat when interviewing for a job. At this point in your career, the only thing that your college/university is good for is for smack talk during football & basketball season around the water cooler. NO JOKE!

So those of you who will be entering the interview melee in the next few years aren't totally freaked out here, let me add that it is only at the entry level positions that the name of your college/university may help (typically it is the fact that you have a degree at all that matters to many hiring professionals). But as Pooh said, it helps only to keep your resume moving up the stack of "possibles". Believe me when I say that it is your interviewing skills and your work/internship experience that will ultimately get you that job. It is very important to take advantage of any work opportunities out there during your college years, be it on campus or during summers or perhaps co-oping. Even waiting tables shows initiative and a good work ethic. These qualities are very important to your future employer.

So whether you attend(ed) Duke, Marshall, LSU, Arizona State, or Weber State, it is really immaterial in the long run if you can't wow them in the interview. So work on your personalities and interviewing skills...they will take you farther than your diploma.

edit to add that I'm not just blowing smoke...I've worked in HR for 10 years & have been one of those people going through the stack of resumes & calling in candidates for interviews. A resume that looked good and listed a degree from an ACC school may have stayed in the stack longer, but there have been instances where Wake graduates did not even get an interview because they weren't as highly qualified as someone from U of Alabama...seriously!

<small>[ August 11, 2002, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Lucy ]</small>

I just read both of those last 2 posts, and I have been following this site closely enough to know who your points are directed towards. None of what was just said was in anyway surprising. As a matter of fact, I thought that was all common sense and understood. I've been out of schools for 20 years, and it no longer matters where I went to school, what matters is my work history, accomplishments, personality, and references. Just because you attend a certain school, it does not mean that you have a higher potential than the next guy who went to a less prestigous state school.

Europeans tend to believe that, not so much in this country. What you do in the workplace every day is what matters most.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dawg Quixote:
I just read both of those last 2 posts, and I have been following this site closely enough to know who your points are directed towards. None of what was just said was in anyway surprising. As a matter of fact, I thought that was all common sense and understood. I've been out of schools for 20 years, and it no longer matters where I went to school, what matters is my work history, accomplishments, personality, and references. Just because you attend a certain school, it does not mean that you have a higher potential than the next guy who went to a less prestigous state school.

Europeans tend to believe that, not so much in this country. What you do in the workplace every day is what matters most.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think Pooh mentioned in her post to whom she was directing her comments. I actually just wanted to reiterate her point and share my experience in the hiring game in hopes of helping some high school or college student who may not be aware of some of the ins & outs of "getting a job". And your post does help support our point in that regard. On a less serious note, if you have a degree in reading minds and can tell me who I was "talking" to, I'd love that insight... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

So, this means my Harvard School of Barbers degree will do nothing?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

Okay, my guess is...nate jonesacc.

What do I win?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

Well he does fall into the high school/college student category, so I suppose you could be right.

And you won that admission even though you are a member of the Dawg Nation... <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laughing.gif" />

Well you know Lucy it has been less than 3 years since we won our last MNC, so we are due! In dawg years of course...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Pooh,

I'm not going to argue with that, everything you said in that post I either agree with or don't know enough about to have an opinion on.

Damascus said that Casey better hope he makes it into the NBA or else he will be in real trouble.

Considering the following:

a) He will have that "top of the pile" advantage from going to Duke.
b) He will have garnered a lot of knowledge from his 4 years at Duke, which should tremendously help him in the work field.

Having said that, those 2 conditions should be enough to keep him out of "real trouble".

Also, if he goes to graduate school at Duke or any other reputable university like Duke, that should boost all of the above to some exponent. The Duke degree + the knowledge he gained from Duke should also be big factors in getting into law, business, med, etc... graduate schools.

Obviously Pooh and probably most other people are tons more knowledgable about this than me, but that is just how I see things from my experience.

what experience is that....your 15 ****ing years old!!!!!!!

Pooh, it's a lost cause with this kid...

<small>[ August 12, 2002, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: DamascusTerp2 ]</small>

Considering casey did not make the ACC honor roll(requires a 3.0, i believe), and he likely has not made it since arriving on campus, i think he won't be going to Duke for grad school. The only way he'd get in there is if Coach K has something to do with it.

<small>[ August 12, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: The People's Champion ]</small>

I could not tell you the number of interviews I have had with kids right out of school. Many are so impressed with themselves I would not hire them to clean the john. I have a guy who has worked for me for close to 10 years and is the one employee I depend on more than any other. Guess what, no degree. A degree may open a door, but you have to walk through it yourself. I will take someone with common sense over someone with a degree if everything else is equal. Do you know what they call the person who graduated last in their class? A graduate. Nowhere on his/her resume does it indicate where they were in the pecking order.

There again, I dont know what we would do without our CPA.

Okay, you're saying that the most important thing is experience, not necessarily the degree?

I think that it would be relative to what you did with your degree, also. For example, I have two friends, one of whom was a serious student, the other one was more into leadership. At this point, my friend who was into leadership is going to JHU for a Masters in Public Health, while the other student has yet to decide what they're going to do. Ultimately, it comes down to finding a good balance between your studies, and what you do with your off time.

BTW, I have college experience, so I think I can to make this judgement call.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DamascusTerp2:
what experience is that....your 15 ****ing years old!!!!!!!

Pooh, it's a lost cause with this kid...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Experience has multiple definitions, idiot. I have been around and know many college admissions people, heads of law firms, etc... and have a lot of knowledge from them.

Also, I agreed with Pooh you moron.

sorry, let me clarify...I guess you have "some" experience(knowing people, which doesn't mean **** ), but no real world experience...

you said "what exp is that... YOUR 15 ****ING YEARS OLD".

I answered, you agreed that I had experience, end of story.

You are right nate...you always are. I apologize. The wisdom that you have aquired to this point in your life far exeeds anything I can every hope for.

LOL, boy you just have the art of debate down pat, don't you?

Flame, flame, flame, flame, sarcasm, flame, flame, flame, sarcasm, flame flame...

Is that the best you two can come up with???? You are letting us down!