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Economy Set for Best Growth in 20 Years
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #21
 
DrTorch Wrote:
Schadenfreude Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:The "hints" of jury intimidation read like "Remember the Maine".  That's some very bad journalism.  Certainly the bribery charge is pretty bad.
An assistant county prosecutor is basically saying: Look, it looks an awful lot like possible jury intimidation. We need to look into this.
Maybe so, but that isn't really "news".

Secondly, do you think an Asst DA ever got "overly enthusiastic" to try to jump start his career? Another reason it's not news.

Quote:I don't see where The Plain Dealer exaggerated anything.

They linked together a bunch of facts to imply there was a story. That's exaggeration, b/c as of yet there is no story.

Seems like the whole state has problems...and both of the main parties have guilty players.

Press coverage like this doesn't help the situation.

If anything is imploding, it's the entire state. It has no focus and no direction as to how to build on its many assets. And the journalists at the Plain Dealer, Cincy Enquirer, and others are cannibalizing those very resources.
I guess we have different points of view.

I think it's NEWS when the state treasurer -- the state official in charge of making sure taxpayers get a reasonable return on their money -- is accused of being bribed by a (now) convicted felon who ripped off his clients to the tune of $15 million and handled billions of dollars worth of trades for the state.

That's the allegation here -- and prosecutors are using the word "bribe."

By law, this guy Frank Gruttadauria, who is now in prison, could only donate $2,500 or so (maybe a bit more) directly to Joe Deters, who was then Hamilton County prosector and is now Ohio's treasurer.

But Grattadauria wanted more influence that. The allegation is that with a wink and a nod, he donated $50,000 to a secret account in the Hamilton County Republican Party that is supposed to be kept strictly separate from political campaigns -- for things like keeping the lights on, that kind of thing.

It isn't clear to me whether or not that $50,000 was the "bribe" prosecutors are referring to. But Grattadauria (now in prison after having gone on the lam) is singing. He says that $50,000 was intended as a disguised contribution to Deters -- which appears blatantly illegal.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1086428079195460.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...28079195460.xml</a>

(You'll see from the above link that our state treasurer had to testify for FOUR HOURS a few weeks ago.)

So, as the investigation grinds on into whether our state treasurer is on the take -- which, is pretty clearly news -- a private eye shows up at the office of the head juror and asks to see her personnel file.

Reasonable minds can conclude that's suspicious -- and a judge has, too. A judge has ordered that this mysterious private eye explain himself to the grand jury:

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1088069685108375.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...69685108375.xml</a>

<a href='http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040624/NEWS02/406240456/-1/NEWS' target='_blank'>http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...6240456/-1/NEWS</a>

You would have preferred the media keep all this to itself?
07-08-2004 07:43 AM
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Rebel
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Post: #22
 
........and....just what does all this have to do with, "Economy Set for Best Growth in 20 Years"?
07-08-2004 07:50 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #23
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:I guess we have different points of view.

I think it's NEWS when the state treasurer -- the state official in charge of making sure taxpayers get a reasonable return on their money -- is accused of being bribed

. A judge has ordered that this mysterious private eye explain himself to the grand jury:

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1088069685108375.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...69685108375.xml</a>

<a href='http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040624/NEWS02/406240456/-1/NEWS' target='_blank'>http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...6240456/-1/NEWS</a>

You would have preferred the media keep all this to itself?
I agree w/ you here. I never said the bribery charges and case weren't news. You are absolutely right, this should be covered.

Quote:So, as the investigation grinds on into whether our state treasurer is on the take -- which, is pretty clearly news -- a private eye shows up at the office of the head juror and asks to see her personnel file.

Reasonable minds can conclude that's suspicious -- and a judge has, too

Well, NE Ohio judges don't impress me much. Remember the mid-wife who was jailed b/c she wouldn't release her source for a common OB medication?

But, what I did find suspicious was that a Grand Jury member, let alone foreman, was a state employee, and on top of that, she is immediate family to a prominent member of the opposing political party.

Doesn't that sound suspicious?

If the court was serious, they'd never let a conflict of interest situation like that develop to begin with.

BTW, the records the PI was searching are public documents. You think John Ashcroft is bad? What's up w/ this? Testify before the grand jury? That is the story the press should be covering.
07-08-2004 07:56 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #24
 
RebelKev Wrote:........and....just what does all this have to do with, "Economy Set for Best Growth in 20 Years"?
Sorry, clearly we're off on a tangent.
07-08-2004 07:59 AM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #25
 
gruehls Wrote:"jury intimidation?" it's a grand jury, not a sitting criminal jury. ken blackwell, a republican, has had more to do with checking into this crap than the plain dealer has.
In fact, the opposite is happening frequently.

We saw that last week:

Eight days ago, The Plain Dealer revealed that the presumptive future state Senate president had used the secret operating account of Mongomery County Republican Party to hire a political consultant who in turn hired two political operatives now under investigation by the FBI and for all sorts of possible shennagans. Moreover, The Plain Dealer made it clear this state Senator was basically trying to hide this fact (and even lying about it to fellow Senators) until The Plain Delaer cornered him on it.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/108858804859081.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...58804859081.xml</a>

Two days later, the Senator announced he would no longer seek the Senate presidency.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1088760800294481.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...60800294481.xml</a>

Then, on Tuesday, Blackwell announced subpoenas of records of the Montgomery County Republican Party operating account.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1089192671174191.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...92671174191.xml</a>
07-08-2004 08:02 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #26
 
Tulsaman Wrote:doesn't look much better in oklahoma. as far as jobs.
I don't completely understand this.

There are so many opportunities available.

Honestly, Fairfax County is so doggone expensive, that I'm apprehensive about leaving my job to pursue them. But, I'm not saying I won't either. That's how promising they look.

If I were in relatively low cost-of-living OK or OH, I'd jump on these chances. Particularly if I didn't have another job.

Anyway, one can find work out of the area for a while too. Believe me, No Virginia would love to have some skilled construction folks come in for a while. That's a burden, I know. Probably not the first choice for anybody...but this very thing has gone on for millennia, I'd be surprised to see it stop now. And people should be grateful that these opportunities exist, especially within one country...where you don't need to show papers to move, you don't need a VISA or passport, etc.
07-08-2004 08:05 AM
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Schadenfreude Offline
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Post: #27
 
DrTorch Wrote:BTW, the records the PI was searching are public documents. You think John Ashcroft is bad? What's up w/ this? Testify before the grand jury? That is the story the press should be covering.
You know I'm firm on the First Amendment. I believe virtually everything should be a public record.

That's not the question. The question is the private eye's intent. Who hired him? Why?

I'm surprised that question hasn't been resolved by now, but grand jury investigations are not easy for reporters to cover.

As far as the foreman working for the county and her connections -- it is a little weird.

But I served on a grand jury once. You've got probably 24 people in that room -- and only two thirds of them need to come to an agreement on anything in order to indicit. We occasionally discussed things, but no one ever remotely tried to twist arms -- and certainly not our foreman. The foreman's main job was to count votes and report them to the prosector. In a month, I think we only had one vote that wasn't close to unanimous one way or the other.
07-08-2004 08:09 AM
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Schadenfreude Wrote:In fact, the opposite is happening frequently.

We saw that last week:

Eight days ago, The Plain Dealer revealed that the presumptive future state Senate president had used the secret operating account of Mongomery County Republican Party to hire a political consultant who in turn hired two political operatives now under investigation by the FBI and for all sorts of possible shennagans. Moreover, The Plain Dealer made it clear this state Senator was basically trying to hide this fact (and even lying about it to fellow Senators) until The Plain Delaer cornered him on it.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/108858804859081.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...58804859081.xml</a>

Two days later, the Senator announced he would no longer seek the Senate presidency.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1088760800294481.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...60800294481.xml</a>

Then, on Tuesday, Blackwell announced subpoenas of records of the Montgomery County Republican Party operating account.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1089192671174191.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...92671174191.xml</a>
ken blackwell has been trying to do away with those accounts since mccain-feingold. he specifically expressed his belief that they were illegal, as reported in JANUARY, 2004. maybe if a plain dealer reporter covered it, they picked up on the montgomery county connection.

<a href='http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/01/13/loc_col2inside.html' target='_blank'>Blackwell pushes for end to secret political accounts </a>

and, as an aside, they are maintained by both parties.
07-08-2004 08:22 AM
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Post: #29
 
gruehls Wrote:ken blackwell has been trying to do away with those accounts since mccain-feingold. he specifically expressed his belief that they were illegal, as reported in JANUARY, 2004. maybe if a plain dealer reporter covered it, they picked up on the montgomery county connection.

<a href='http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/01/13/loc_col2inside.html' target='_blank'>Blackwell pushes for end to secret political accounts </a>

and, as an aside, they are maintained by both parties.
I don't believe Blackwell's stance on McCain-Feingold led to last week's Plain Dealer story.

Neither that -- nor anything else I've written in this thread -- is intended as a criticism of Blackwell, either.
07-08-2004 06:33 PM
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Post: #30
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:I guess we have different points of view.

I think it's NEWS when the state treasurer -- the state official in charge of making sure taxpayers get a reasonable return on their money -- is accused of being bribed by a (now) convicted felon who ripped off his clients to the tune of $15 million and handled billions of dollars worth of trades for the state.

That's the allegation here -- and prosecutors are using the word "bribe."

By law, this guy Frank Gruttadauria, who is now in prison, could only donate $2,500 or so (maybe a bit more) directly to Joe Deters, who was then Hamilton County prosector and is now Ohio's treasurer.

But Grattadauria wanted more influence that. The allegation is that with a wink and a nod, he donated $50,000 to a secret account in the Hamilton County Republican Party that is supposed to be kept strictly separate from political campaigns -- for things like keeping the lights on, that kind of thing.

It isn't clear to me whether or not that $50,000 was the "bribe" prosecutors are referring to. But Grattadauria (now in prison after having gone on the lam) is singing. He says that $50,000 was intended as a disguised contribution to Deters -- which appears blatantly illegal.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1086428079195460.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...28079195460.xml</a>

(You'll see from the above link that our state treasurer had to testify for FOUR HOURS a few weeks ago.)
I just can't resist a little bit of "and now for the rest of the story":


<a href='http://www.cincinnati.com/text/post/2004/07/26/deter072404.html' target='_blank'>Deters cleared in bribery probe </a>



<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1091007241233390.xml?nohio' target='_blank'>No charges against Deters</a>

Presumably, you see from the above links that the Ohio state treasurer was cleared of any wrongdoing. Still, that hotshot prosecutor got 2 misdemeanors out of his 14 month investigation.
07-28-2004 12:12 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #31
 
sherman&amp;grant Wrote:
Schadenfreude Wrote:I guess we have different points of view.

I think it's NEWS when the state treasurer -- the state official in charge of making sure taxpayers get a reasonable return on their money -- is accused of being bribed by a (now) convicted felon who ripped off his clients to the tune of $15 million and handled billions of dollars worth of trades for the state.

That's the allegation here -- and prosecutors are using the word "bribe."

By law, this guy Frank Gruttadauria, who is now in prison, could only donate $2,500 or so (maybe a bit more) directly to Joe Deters, who was then Hamilton County prosector and is now Ohio's treasurer.

But Grattadauria wanted more influence that. The allegation is that with a wink and a nod, he donated $50,000 to a secret account in the Hamilton County Republican Party that is supposed to be kept strictly separate from political campaigns -- for things like keeping the lights on, that kind of thing.

It isn't clear to me whether or not that $50,000 was the "bribe" prosecutors are referring to. But Grattadauria (now in prison after having gone on the lam) is singing. He says that $50,000 was intended as a disguised contribution to Deters -- which appears blatantly illegal.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1086428079195460.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...28079195460.xml</a>

(You'll see from the above link that our state treasurer had to testify for FOUR HOURS a few weeks ago.)
I just can't resist a little bit of "and now for the rest of the story":


<a href='http://www.cincinnati.com/text/post/2004/07/26/deter072404.html' target='_blank'>Deters cleared in bribery probe </a>



<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1091007241233390.xml?nohio' target='_blank'>No charges against Deters</a>

Presumably, you see from the above links that the Ohio state treasurer was cleared of any wrongdoing. Still, that hotshot prosecutor got 2 misdemeanors out of his 14 month investigation.
Thanks for the follow through.

I wonder if the terms "politically motivated" and "conspiracy" ring a bell w/ folks from the left.

I think people should strive to be completely above reproach...but hindsight is 20/20.

I wonder if anyone will raise an issue about the thousands of dollars gone from Ohio's budget. You know that money could have helped w/ education, road repair, job training...
07-28-2004 01:22 PM
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jjburtzel Offline
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Post: #32
 
sherman&amp;grant Wrote:
Schadenfreude Wrote:I guess we have different points of view.

I think it's NEWS when the state treasurer -- the state official in charge of making sure taxpayers get a reasonable return on their money -- is accused of being bribed by a (now) convicted felon who ripped off his clients to the tune of $15 million and handled billions of dollars worth of trades for the state.

That's the allegation here -- and prosecutors are using the word "bribe."

By law, this guy Frank Gruttadauria, who is now in prison, could only donate $2,500 or so (maybe a bit more) directly to Joe Deters, who was then Hamilton County prosector and is now Ohio's treasurer.

But Grattadauria wanted more influence that. The allegation is that with a wink and a nod, he donated $50,000 to a secret account in the Hamilton County Republican Party that is supposed to be kept strictly separate from political campaigns -- for things like keeping the lights on, that kind of thing.

It isn't clear to me whether or not that $50,000 was the "bribe" prosecutors are referring to. But Grattadauria (now in prison after having gone on the lam) is singing. He says that $50,000 was intended as a disguised contribution to Deters -- which appears blatantly illegal.

<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1086428079195460.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/...28079195460.xml</a>

(You'll see from the above link that our state treasurer had to testify for FOUR HOURS a few weeks ago.)
I just can't resist a little bit of "and now for the rest of the story":


<a href='http://www.cincinnati.com/text/post/2004/07/26/deter072404.html' target='_blank'>Deters cleared in bribery probe </a>



<a href='http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1091007241233390.xml?nohio' target='_blank'>No charges against Deters</a>

Presumably, you see from the above links that the Ohio state treasurer was cleared of any wrongdoing. Still, that hotshot prosecutor got 2 misdemeanors out of his 14 month investigation.

Thanks for the update Sherman&Grant,

What I like even more is the different spin on each of the articles.

The Cincinnati article says that Deters was cleared of charges. The Cleveland paper goes into a long-winded account of how Deters probably won't win any more statewide elections because he was being investigated and two people below him were charged with misdemeanors. No politcal spin there folks :rolleyes:

How about giving me the story and spare me your poltically-driven speculation? But news outlets are not biased...keep telling me that.
07-28-2004 01:22 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #33
 
jjburtzel Wrote:[What I like even more is the different spin on each of the articles.

The Cincinnati article says that Deters was cleared of charges. The Cleveland paper goes into a long-winded account of how Deters probably won't win any more statewide elections because he was being investigated and two people below him were charged with misdemeanors. No politcal spin there folks :rolleyes:
No doubt. I thought news and commentary were supposed to be separate.

I want to hear SF's thoughts on all of this.
07-28-2004 01:24 PM
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Bowling Green is the Berkely of Ohio. :grom:
07-28-2004 05:48 PM
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Post: #35
 
DrTorch Wrote:I want to hear SF's thoughts on all of this.
First, the Plain Dealer published several stories today. One was a straight account of the convictions. The other explored the political ramifications. The Plain Dealer also had a couple of other items summing up the key players in the case and past scandals on the state treasurer's office.

Other media (such as The Blade of Toledo) tended to blend these themes in single stories.

The more important issue is that of Deters.

This line, from today's Columbus Dispatch, says it all:

Special Prosecutor Thomas J. Sammon said there was insufficient evidence to determine whether Deters was aware of any criminal conduct.

"We can’t indict on inattentiveness or on managerial skills or lack thereof," Sammon said. "Those are factors the electorate has to look at."


Put another way: If you believe Deters' story -- that he had no idea his top staffers were commiting crimes -- then you have to accept the idea that he's woefully unqualified to manage millions of dollars worth of investments on behalf of the taxpayers of Ohio.

After all, we aren't talking about low-level flunkies here. We are talking about his chief of staff and his chief fundraiser.

So stick a fork in Deters. He's done. He might as well start ordering extra letterhead and monogrammed coffee cups and sneaking those knick-knacks home with him at night. He only has two more years left.

.
07-28-2004 07:18 PM
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Post: #36
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:I want to hear SF's thoughts on all of this.
First, the Plain Dealer published several stories today. One was a straight account of the convictions. The other explored the political ramifications. The Plain Dealer also had a couple of other items summing up the key players in the case and past scandals on the state treasurer's office.

Other media (such as The Blade of Toledo) tended to blend these themes in single stories.

The more important issue is that of Deters.

This line, from today's Columbus Dispatch, says it all:

Special Prosecutor Thomas J. Sammon said there was insufficient evidence to determine whether Deters was aware of any criminal conduct.

"We can’t indict on inattentiveness or on managerial skills or lack thereof," Sammon said. "Those are factors the electorate has to look at."


Put another way: If you believe Deters' story -- that he had no idea his top staffers were commiting crimes -- then you have to accept the idea that he's woefully unqualified to manage millions of dollars worth of investments on behalf of the taxpayers of Ohio.

After all, we aren't talking about low-level flunkies here. We are talking about his chief of staff and his chief fundraiser.

So stick a fork in Deters. He's done. He might as well start ordering extra letterhead and monogrammed coffee cups and sneaking those knick-knacks home with him at night. He only has two more years left.

.
Schaden, you should really stop using the Stained Dealer as your source for all things big and small. I work at a local TV station in Cleveland, and 75% of the stories in that rag are viewed by our producers as if they were from the National Enquirer.

Makes a great fish wrap, though. 03-puke

Manufacturing jobs are leaving, and HAVE been leaving this country for a specific reason. Any person remotely acquainted with Adam Smith could explain it. I'm guessing there's no point here.

Ohio's workers (and the rest of the Country from that matter) need to start learning about the world beyond the local plant and begin unlocking the power of their hard earned money, rather than living in a specialized labor world that no longer exists and then wondering "what happened" as time marches on.

Ohhhh...but that's right - John Kerry's going to wave a magic wand, start shooting gold bricks out of his *** and create 10 million jobs/eliminate global warming/give every American free health care. Then, we'll form a human love chain from coast to coast, sing "kumbaya" and radical islamo-facists will drop their weapons and join us in the quest for whirled peas.

I'd love to live in the Democrats' world for just one day. I'm sure an acid trip would seem like a Flinstone's chewable by comparison. :space:
07-28-2004 08:40 PM
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Post: #37
 
BearcatCarl Wrote:Schaden, you should really stop using the Stained Dealer as your source for all things big and small.&nbsp; I work at a local TV station in Cleveland, and 75% of the stories in that rag are viewed by our producers as if they were from the National Enquirer.
Why? Because they are too difficult to understand?

And let's face up to the reason you are reading The Plain Dealer. Aside from the police scanner, they are your producers' source for all things big and small.

Right?

(Especially if they work at WOIO -- in which case, all I can say is that I'm sorry).
07-28-2004 10:09 PM
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Post: #38
 
BearcatCarl Wrote:Manufacturing jobs are leaving, and HAVE been leaving this country for a specific reason. Any person remotely acquainted with Adam Smith could explain it. I'm guessing there's no point here.

Ohio's workers (and the rest of the Country from that matter) need to start learning about the world beyond the local plant and begin unlocking the power of their hard earned money, rather than living in a specialized labor world that no longer exists and then wondering "what happened" as time marches on.
Wow, you read my hometown paper?

I gotta agree with that. Ohioans have all sorts of opportunities, but they waste them in good times, then ***** about losing good union jobs in bad times.

Time and tide wait for no man. The economy is always changing, and as economics becomes more globalized, this change tends to have a higher rate. You've always got to be looking ahead and preparing to adapt. There is no longer the time to coast and wait for a comfortable retirement.

People need to stop complaining about this flux and start embracing it. Let it be your hobby. Learn new things, develop new skills. It may mean less time fishing on Grand Lake St Marys...it may mean that Ohio A&M can no longer have a monopoly on all the post-degree programs in the state.

Ohio has the resources to be a player in any economy. Stop f'n around with those resources!

PS Hey SF, did you happen to read the article on Kodak and Rochester, NY in a recent Reader's Digest? Obviously not the best source in the world, but it presented many different sides to the situation. I thought it was a decent introduction to the situation.
07-29-2004 07:53 AM
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jjburtzel Offline
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Post: #39
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:
DrTorch Wrote:I want to hear SF's thoughts on all of this.
First, the Plain Dealer published several stories today. One was a straight account of the convictions. The other explored the political ramifications. The Plain Dealer also had a couple of other items summing up the key players in the case and past scandals on the state treasurer's office.
There's my point...they "explored" the political ramifications...as it pertained to past political "scandals" in the state treasurer's office.

Well, let's look at the Cleveland Fish Rag's examples:

"Treasurer John Herbert, for example, lost his 1970 run for attorney general after his office was embroiled in a loan scandal."

"Longtime Treasurer Gertrude Donahey didn't seek re-election in 1983 after her head cashier was convicted of embezzling money without her boss' knowledge."

Ok...so one example that is 30+ years old and another that is 20+ years old. Well, I hate to break it to the fine readers and researchers at the Cleveland Fish Wrap, but times have changed a bit since those cases. Seems like they are trying to steer their argument in a certain direction based on a pretty old (in terms of politics and public standards) data set, doesn't it? I mean, don't go out and take a scientific poll (if newspapers know how do to this in the first place) or look at anything recent...just base it on a voting-generation ago 'evidence' that, for them, is just enough flimsy support for their poltically-driven headline of "Scandal clouds fate of Deters".

I wonder if the Cleveland Fish Wrap has ever endorsed Deters? But they couldn't possibly have an agenda, could they? :rolleyes:
07-29-2004 08:00 AM
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Bob Saccomano Offline
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Post: #40
 
Schadenfreude Wrote:
BearcatCarl Wrote:Schaden, you should really stop using the Stained Dealer as your source for all things big and small.  I work at a local TV station in Cleveland, and 75% of the stories in that rag are viewed by our producers as if they were from the National Enquirer.
Why? Because they are too difficult to understand?

And let's face up to the reason you are reading The Plain Dealer. Aside from the police scanner, they are your producers' source for all things big and small.

Right?

(Especially if they work at WOIO -- in which case, all I can say is that I'm sorry).
I don't read the Stained Dealer - if I want their point of view, Salon.com is readily available.

And no, it's not WOIO...I wouldn't have moved 2,500 miles to work for Raycom, trust me.

As far as our producers go...I suppose I can give you that, although they get quite a bit more info off of the AP wire than the newspaper. But when you consider what the AP is all about, what's the difference? :drink:
07-29-2004 09:43 AM
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