I believe Carlin said it best:

Keep thy religion to thyself.

Fortunately, Carlin isn't a lawmaker.

The coach is the coach, you listen to the coach. You sit there while he's saying the Our Father and you either say it or you be quiet. That's how it should be. Listen or not, you'd better look like you're listening, or that's extra Oklahoma for you!

Freedom to practice religion is just that. This whole "seperation of church and everything" craze has gone way too far.

I suppose you would all agree then if the coach wanted to read muslim prayers before a football game and have his players bow towards mecca?

if he wants to read muslim prayers, i have no problem with that, however he can't make his players join in with him...

I guess my question was directed at buddy lee's comment. It looks like he's saying that all players better conform with the coach when it comes to religion.

While I agree that the coach has the right to say anything he wants, I think the players have the right not to conform on that matter if that is their choice.

I guess you should read my comment closer. The players must just be quiet, the coach can't FORCE them to pray.

Ok, well i suppose thats fair.

If I were a parent, I would rather the coach say his prayer in the office & come out & talk to his team about the game. Of course, thats just me.

I think religion is a personal thing, and should probably stay that way. If you want to congregate, there are churches/synagogues/and mosques for just that sort of thing.

So drunk, it's ok if he makes the players join in with him only if it's a Christian prayer?

huh? when did i ever say anything about making players join in if its christian?

(editted because i'm not thinking in complete sentences today)

<small>[ April 10, 2002, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: drunkterp ]</small>

But earlier you took exception to people being offended by prayer. I took that to mean you think the kids should be forced to listen to the prayer rather than demonstrating their displeasure.

Forgive me if I read too much into your post.

One thing I think about prayers:

What's the hurt? Nothin to lose but a couple of breaths, and a hell of a lot to gain! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

That's from some Mel Gibson movie, IIRC, don't remember which one though.

Nate - Just try and look at it from the view of someone who really doesn't want to hear that stuff. It genuinely pisses me off if I am forced to sit through something like that.

Yes, I know. It's just a quote I like. I know people can easily be offended by prayer and that's why I don't pray in public. I should be allowed to (don't make me go 1st amendment on your ass, j/k) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> , but it's not going to kill me to pray in private.

As for prayer on basketball teams, public basketball teams should not force prayer onto kids before games, AT ALL. We prayed before everygame in my 2 years on the middle school team, but that was only because everyone didn't mind. If no one minds, then I believe that quote to be true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Liquid Karma:
Nate - Just try and look at it from the view of someone who really doesn't want to hear that stuff. It genuinely pisses me off if I am forced to sit through something like that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you saying that if you were in a restraunt and I was in the sane restraunt with my family and we prayed before our meals that would piss you off and offend you?

I think that the point is this. In a restaraunt if you pray, you are at another table, and I don't care. You're in your group, I'm in mine.

However, if there is a group activity & some people pray and others don't, it can be divisive. Those who don't pray run the risk of being looked at as foreign or not "part of the team". This can lead to problems. That is the issue with the team prayer.

Wait until someone in a day care center tries to teach your children how to pray the "right way" and then punishes them when they don't.

...actually, usually you can choose between church-affiliated and public day care AND schools...so hopefully that wouldn't happen. There is a big issue even over the moment of silence that has been instituted in the school where I teach (some kids pray, some sit there and read/do work,etc.-- but they HAVE to be silent) and Gov. Warner voted no to put the "In God We Trust" emblem in every classroom in every school in VA-- what are everyone's views on that-- does that mean we should take it off of our money and how about the Pledge of Allegience in schools "under God"???

This was a public non-denominational day care. One of the workers thought that it was her "mission" to instruct children in her beliefs.

As for the common sense of those who run the VA school system, all I have to say is "SOL's".

<small>[ April 10, 2002, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: The Bomber ]</small>

How'd this get from being rich to religion and coaches praying before games? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

Now for my opinion on that, I think that it is alright to pray before games just as long as not everyone has to participate in it, I do go to church and am a Christian, but there is always going to be the seperation of Church and state.

wooh religion's role in society debates, i love these

The Coach should respect his players and if some dont want to hear prayer before the game, they shouldn't have too.

As for the moment of silence, it is completely unnessecary and whether it's religious or not, It accomplishes nothing and should be done away with.

You're allowed to pray in public school, IN PUBLIC, as long as you dont disrupt anyone.

The ten commandments dont belong in public schools either. If you're going to add implied religion on public school students, make sure you include EVERY religion that currently exists. Every single one. Not just christianity. <img border="0" alt="[NoNo]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />

And terpy, I know you were replying to LK, but most non-religious people such as myself (and i dont know LK's status on religion) do not care if your family were to pray at a nearby table, as long as you dont disrupt anyone else.

and then everyone's happy and we can drink <img border="0" alt="[drinky]" title="" src="graemlins/drinky.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/cheers.gif" />