</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by lawrenceterp:
Paul. I love the idea of expansion. 12 teams is a really nice size for a conference. I really wish Miami would be one of the teams though. They would help both football and basketball. Virginia Tech would only help football, but the rivalry with UVA might be a really nice thing for the conference. Imagine if those teams meet with the added pressure of a conference championship on the line. And, they'd be playing twice a year in bball also. Central Florida would be a really nice
addition. They would be behind the rest of in most regards to start out, but they have the potentail to really grow. Syracuse seems really far away, but if they were interested, I'd be all for it.

The most interesting part to me, would be alignment. Say the three new teams were Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse. I guess you'd do a North-South kind of thing. But you run into problems when splitting up the Carolina schools.

North
Syracuse
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech

South
Miami
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Would you put two in in each division? Or maybe send Virginia and Virginia Tech to the Southern Division?

Now....say Syracuse is not one of the teams. Say its Central Florida. Then we may get this....

North
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Duke

South
Miami
Florida State
Central Florida
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest

I think this might be a really nice alignment. The North would be dominant in basketball and the South would be dominant in football.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hadn't paid a great deal of attention to divisional alignments. You know...you could split
into East-West.

Fellas...I am not 100% on this...but the idea of
adding Miami was shot down a few years back.

Adding Miami, immediately improves perceived
creditbility. I use the word perceived, because
on the field, we do quite well vs SEC competiton.

Just don't get the proper attention in the media.

UCF...beat Alabama at Bama's homecoming in 2000!
also trailed the Gaytors 27-20 entering the 4th
quarter that same year. They can play.

What they would do for the league...There stadium
would be the third largest in the league...We'd
get another "Major" daily newspaper (Orlando Sentinel)...BUT...recruiting!!!! with 400 signings a year with Div. 1 schools coming out of
Fla High Schools...ACC schools could assure prospective players that they would be playing in
their home state...at least 4 times in their career. Plus with two Florida schools in the
ACC...the entire league would be more visible.

IF...Miami also came in...You would be assuring
those players of at least 6 games a year in their
home state! It would make a difference. A BIG
difference.

It's fun to toy with it!

134 days to kickoff

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Paul:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by lawrenceterp:
Paul. I love the idea of expansion. 12 teams is a really nice size for a conference. I really wish Miami would be one of the teams though. They would help both football and basketball. Virginia Tech would only help football, but the rivalry with UVA might be a really nice thing for the conference. Imagine if those teams meet with the added pressure of a conference championship on the line. And, they'd be playing twice a year in bball also. Central Florida would be a really nice
addition. They would be behind the rest of in most regards to start out, but they have the potentail to really grow. Syracuse seems really far away, but if they were interested, I'd be all for it.

The most interesting part to me, would be alignment. Say the three new teams were Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse. I guess you'd do a North-South kind of thing. But you run into problems when splitting up the Carolina schools.

North
Syracuse
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech

South
Miami
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Would you put two in in each division? Or maybe send Virginia and Virginia Tech to the Southern Division?

Now....say Syracuse is not one of the teams. Say its Central Florida. Then we may get this....

North
Maryland
Virginia
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Duke

South
Miami
Florida State
Central Florida
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest

I think this might be a really nice alignment. The North would be dominant in basketball and the South would be dominant in football.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hadn't paid a great deal of attention to divisional alignments. You know...you could split
into East-West.

Fellas...I am not 100% on this...but the idea of
adding Miami was shot down a few years back.

Adding Miami, immediately improves perceived
creditbility. I use the word perceived, because
on the field, we do quite well vs SEC competiton.

Just don't get the proper attention in the media.

UCF...beat Alabama at Bama's homecoming in 2000!
also trailed the Gaytors 27-20 entering the 4th
quarter that same year. They can play.

What they would do for the league...There stadium
would be the third largest in the league...We'd
get another "Major" daily newspaper (Orlando Sentinel)...BUT...recruiting!!!! with 400 signings a year with Div. 1 schools coming out of
Fla High Schools...ACC schools could assure prospective players that they would be playing in
their home state...at least 4 times in their career. Plus with two Florida schools in the
ACC...the entire league would be more visible.

IF...Miami also came in...You would be assuring
those players of at least 6 games a year in their
home state! It would make a difference. A BIG
difference.

It's fun to toy with it!

134 days to kickoff</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oops...Make that 6 games in their careers

A-C-C EXPANSION AIN'T HAPPENNING ANYTIME SOON...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I would be receptive to adding Miami to the mix, but I really don't see it happenning.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DamascusTerp2:
A-C-C EXPANSION AIN'T HAPPENNING ANYTIME SOON...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I would be receptive to adding Miami to the mix, but I really don't see it happenning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Expansion is discussed at every meeting.

No Flame here...But "If it ain't broke...don't
fix it!" Is a stagnation theme. Progress and
improved visibility mean increased dollars for
all member institutions. It means increased
visibility and better recruiting.

Have you ever wondered how Florida State wound
up in the ACC..."On the Spur of the Moment."
Why the League is in an awkward 9 team set-up!

Maybe when everyone begins to realize that the
engine propels the train...not the caboose. That
50,000 tickets at $30 each produce more revenue
than 14,000 tickets @ $20/$10 apiece. That two
ACC BCS teams will bring more money to member
institutions, than if the whole frickin' league
went to the NCAA's in Basketball.

FOOTBALL

North:
Virginia
Maryland
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest

South:
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Florida State
Miami
Central Florida
Georgia Southern

(Duke is I-AA bound due to attendance, so I won't include them)

6-6 split, tobacco road remains intact, more money, more influence, bolstered TV contracts, championship game (champ of north vs. champ of south)

Basketball:
Leave it, with the possible addition of Miami.

With 9 teams, one team is off every week. Miami could make 5 games year round - while still having a double round robin.

<small>[ April 14, 2002, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: georgia_tech_swagger ]</small>

I think the biggest problem with the ACC expanding is that the Carolina schools do not want to lose the control they currently have. The more teams we add, the less potent their vote is. If we had 12 schools, then they would only be a third of the conference.

You are probably right lawrence, but my main concern is on the rivalries that would be hurt. By your alignment </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">North
Syracuse
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Maryland
Wake Forest

South
Duke
North Carolina
NC State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Florida State</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Duke and Maryland are now in difference divisions. As I said before, why quell a budding basketball rivalry (which some think is the best in the nation now)? Also, UNC-UVa, one of the longest-standing football rivalries in the South, would eventually miss a year, and both teams would be in different divisions.

I realize that you have to lose a little if you want to expand (one of the reasons that I don't want to expand), but I doubt the powers that be would risk endangering those two rivalries either.

-JD

<small>[ April 15, 2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: JD Heel ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by lawrenceterp:
I think the biggest problem with the ACC expanding is that the Carolina schools do not want to lose the control they currently have. The more teams we add, the less potent their vote is. If we had 12 schools, then they would only be a third of the conference.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may be correct there. I think no one even
mentioning East Carolina is childish. Those
people can play, however, they only offer 35,000
seats...'Course that's more than Wake or Duke
offers or can fill. The person who wrote...UCF
stupid!!!!! My Heavens...72,000 seats...drawing
more fans than Duke or Wake...would win 4 in football, right now. Would be in the upper elite
in Baseball...even in Basketball, they would
play ACC games in the Orlando Arena. Although
they wouldn't beat anybody.

All that exposure is NOT stupid. It helps the entire league.

Besides there "so-called" power...is not as strong
as one would imagine. To get FSU...they had to assure Florida State schedule preference. It has
been a big help. Seminoles will play Nine bowl
teams this year and 13 regular season games, but
because of schedule preference our games our laid
out to contend with even the mental let-downs.

Maybe some time off group I'll show you how that
schedule preference has put us in position to go
13-0!

I have to agree UCF is by far the best possibility for expansion and best option for the ACC

Florida is a recruiting Mecca, but UCF doesn't get those recruits because they have no shot at winning the national championship. They would in the ACC. UCF did produce Daunte Culpepper and their football is decent. Better than some of the current ACC teams.

They are not a small school, it would not be hard to entice them into the ACC and their location fits perfectly into the ACC.

If the ACC is going to expand they need to add one team first, UCF. That way with teams being required to play 12 games in the future each team would only have to play two out of conference games.