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Duke PG depth and recruiting
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BlueDevil
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Post: #1
 
Assuming Duhon goes pro after his junior year since he's a top 5 prospect, on the 3 year plan and already talking about it, what is Duke's PG rotation for 2003-4? Dockery is obviously a severe academic risk like Avery in 99, who went to class 3 times all semester according to the Chronicle yet had to remain eligible because he was Duke's only PG on a title favorite. Is Dockery, who is supposed to be a very mediocre PG and top 40 recruit compared to national HS POYs like Jay Williams and Duhon, going to be Duke's only PG? Is this K's master plan for a socalled title contender in 2003-4? 13 scholarship players and only one PG who is a huge academic risk, at the most important position, how retarded is that? Duke should have at least 3 PGs and 3 centers every year. Demarcus Nelson will be a HS junior, will probably grow to at least 6'5", and ballhandling is his biggest weakness, he's clearly not a PG and won't be eligible for years. Shannon Brown isn't a PG either although K started recruiting him right before he committed to UK. Obviously K realizes Wojo is the worst big man coach ever, but does he really need to recruit 3 PFs right after getting 3 post players in the previous class? Has he learned nothing from the transfers of Chappell and Burgess after recruiting 3 players for 2 positions each of those years, now he's recruiting 3 players for one position after recruiting 3 for the 2 post positions last year. Why hasn't Duke been recruiting rising senior PGs like Mustafa Shakur and Chris Paul?

<a href="http://sports.newsobserver.com/sports/college/ncsu/story/1616802p-1644541c.html" target="_blank">http://sports.newsobserver.com/sports/college/ncsu/story/1616802p-1644541c.html</a>

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: BlueDevil ]</small>
08-09-2002 01:12 PM
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Big Pimpin Deac
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Post: #2
 
Maybe because Chris Paul has already committed to Wake, numbnuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
08-09-2002 03:16 PM
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BlueDevil
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Post: #3
 
Minnesota is still recruiting Duke verbal commit Kris Humphries, letters of intent haven't been signed yet. K should have been recruiting rising senior PGs months or years ago.
08-09-2002 03:55 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #4
 
I don't remember the article, but Duhon was quoted as saying "I'm 90% sure that I'll be here for my senior year" and this was just weeks ago.

Dockery was a McDonald's all american. Yes, very mediocre <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Also, he is a top 20 recruit, not top 40, just visit the RSCI, composition of the major gurus rankings.

<a href="http://home.nc.rr/rsci" target="_blank">www.home.nc.rr/rsci</a>

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: nate jonesacc ]</small>
08-09-2002 04:13 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #5
 
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BlueDevil:
Minnesota is still recruiting Duke verbal commit Kris Humphries</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And they have no chance in hell.

K knows what he is doing. He could have gone after Chris Paul, didn't. He could have LANDED Mustafa Shakur, didn't. He could have gone after Shannon Brown, and didn't until extremely late in the stage, and Brown plays 2 guard anyway.

Duke is just fine at PG.

2002-2003 - Duhon, Dockery
2003-2004 - Duhon, Dockery
2004-2005 - Dockery, Nelson
2005-2006 - Dockery, Nelson, Nate Jones

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
08-09-2002 04:17 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #6
 
BTW, do you even follow recruiting?

Shannon Brown committed to Michigan State, not Kentucky.

Luol Deng plays shooting guard/small forward.

Ndudi Ebi plays small forward.

Kris Humphries plays power forward.

How is this recruiting 3 PFs?

And, you know, Wojo did a TERRIBLE job developing Boozer's game. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
08-09-2002 04:21 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #7
 
One last thing, Demarcus Nelson is my age. He still has 2 years to develop some handles. I know from experience that you can make a SG-PG transition in less than 6 months.

Yes, he will grow to about 6'5. Yes, he can still play PG. Just look at 2004 recruiting target Shaun Livingston, who stands at 6'6.

Also, Duke is recruiting Jason Horton, Livingston, Daniel Gibson, and somewhat Taurean (Tac) Minor, all PGs, for the class of 2004, to go along with DeMarcus.

We are just fine, quit "worrying" ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> )
08-09-2002 04:24 PM
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BlueDevil
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Post: #8
 
Most unbiased sources predict Duhon will go pro on the 3 year plan and he's already talked about doing just that, he's a top 4 pick on nbadraft.net. Also, Demarcus Nelson isn't a PG, ballhandling is his biggest weakness and he should grow into a SG or SF, no program ever wants a PG whose biggest weakness at any stage is ballhandling. So Duke will probably have huge academic risk and questionable talent Dockery who couldn't even lead his HS to any decent wins, as the only PG in 2003-04 and maybe 2004-5 and 2005-6 since K and angeleyes may think he can play PG, and Dockery said he might drop out early too, how about zero PGs? Why is Duke recruiting 6 post players in consecutive years and only one PG when it will only have one PG on the roster for the most important position?

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: BlueDevil ]</small>
08-09-2002 04:29 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #9
 
I hate to resort to using BPD and LK's words, but...

BLUE BALLS,

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH or unbiased gurus.

Oh ok, we might just go ask Dave Telep about Duhon's future instead of DUHON HIMSELF. Wow, you are an idiot.

Also, you say Dockery is a top 40 mediocre PG, but then again, he's going pro early. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

Nelson has 2 years to work on his handles!!!

We could also land one of
a) Telfair
b) Livingston
c) Horton
d) Gibson
e) Tac Minor

in addition to Nelson!

You look at it in the most pessimistic way possible.

How about this...

Duhon stays all 4, Dock stays all 4, Nelson gets some handles, we also get Jason Horton.

There's some real PG trouble goin on here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

BTW, will you admit that you were wrong regarding
a) Shannon Brown
b) Duke recruiting 3 PFs when they aren't.
c) Dockery's ranking
?????

Also, Dockery's team was a sack of horseshit, and Dock had to drop like 53 points, 13 assists, 10 rebounds and 10 steals just for them to win. He actually did this, also.
08-09-2002 10:56 PM
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Deep Blue
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Post: #10
 
nate jonesacc
What's up with the slow?
Member # 368

posted August 10, 2002 12:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In an interview recently, Demarcus said the following:

DeMarcus Nelson
8.10.02

The following interview was conducted with DeMarcus Nelson, an early commitment to the Duke Blue Devils.

Q: What is your current height?

A: I am 6'3 right now.

Q: What do the docters project your height?

A: They say I will be 6'5.

Q: Do you still plan to pay the point in college?
A: Of course.

<a href="http://onlinehoops.com/intnelson.htm" target="_blank">http://onlinehoops.com/intnelson.htm</a>

I'm so sorry, Blue balls.

[ August 10, 2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: nate jonesacc ]
08-10-2002 05:22 PM
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Deep Blue
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Post: #11
 
<a href="http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:FanP0Teuu6wC:users.adelphia.net/~tonyhutch/uncrecruiting.html+%22demarcus+nelson%22+and+%22biggest+weakness%22+ballhandling&hl=en&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:FanP0Teuu6wC:users.adelphia.net/~tonyhutch/uncrecruiting.html+%22demarcus+nelson%22+and+%22biggest+weakness%22+ballhandling&hl=en&ie=UTF-8</a>

"Nelson averaged almost 28 points, 14 rebounds, and five assists per contest his sophomore season in which he played mostly shooting guard. He plays mostly point guard during the summer on the AAU circuit. DeMarcus says the most important factor in choosing a college is finding a place where he can get quality minutes immediately.

Here is what his high school coach, Duke Brown, has to say about his star player: "He's very confident. He started for us as a freshman last year and was the only returning player. He scored 903 points this season, which is unheard of in this area as a sophomore. A lot of people think he's a gunner, but he only takes 17-22 shots per game. He does everything - he's very aggressive and is smart on the floor. His only weakness is that he gets winded, because he always wants to take the top player defensively. He never wants to back down or slow down."

On himself, Demarcus adds, "I'm a pretty big guard. I lift weights a lot and my strength is probably my biggest advantage. I take the easy shots if they're there, but if the 3 is open, I'll take it. But if I can get by someone and get to the hoop, I will. Contact is a big thing to me. ... I think my natural position might be the 2, but I can play the 1 just as well. ... To me, the weakest part of my game is ballhandling, but I'm working on it - along with my defense. I don't want to be a one-dimensional player."
08-10-2002 05:23 PM
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Deep Blue
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Post: #12
 
Duhon said he's considering going pro after his junior year and is on the 3 year plan plus he's a top 4 prospect, compare that to Dunleavy who has rich parents, much higher SATs, and always said he was a 4 year player, Duhon will almost certainly be gone according to every unbiased source and most realistic Duke fans too. That means Dockery will be the only PG for 2003-04, the scary thing about the next few years is that K and angeleyes probably do think Nelson will be a PG despite the fact that even Nelson thinks ballhandling is his biggest weakness, and that alone could keep Duke from any national titles for another several years. K isn't the recruiter some seem to think he is, he probably had to promise Dockery and Nelson he wouldn't recruit a rising senior PG this year and that Duke University would have to get by with one extremely mediocre top 40 PG who is a huge academic risk, gets dominated everytime he plays another ranked PG, and couldn't even lead his HS to any decent wins.

Blue Devil
02/08/2002 : 21:24:53
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dockery isn't even a great PG and may never start for
Duke, he can't shoot and is living off his earlier rep
when some thought he was the top player in his class.
But since he may be too old to even be eligible as a
19 year old senior, obviously this was another Danny
Almonte type situation where he was dominating much
less developed kids until they grew up and started
schooling him. And as with Almonte, the adults are the
most to blame for exploiting Dockery at his expense.
Dockery has been sliding steadily in the rankings and
is barely top 40 now. Dockery seems
to get outplayed every single time, tarheel Felton who
qualified long ago outscored him 14 to zero, Gerry
McNamara who wasn't even used to high level
competition still killed him 24 to 4, and an injured
Elijah Ingram busted him up according to Rob Matera 32
to 8 on a bad ankle. Ingram is 6', 150, quick and an
awesome shooter and leader, like Hurley, he's from St.
Anthonys in NJ where Bob Hurley won't let kids play
without at least a B average, Duke should recruit him
or John Gilchrist who supposedly has over a B average,
or maybe even Hurley clone McNamara who also has good
academics or Stanford recruit Jeremy Monceaux.

Duke keeps getting burned by bad recruiting decisions, repeatedly going after players who can't even qualify like Ousmane Cisse who had all kinds of NCAA violations and had to go pro, instead of smart talented players like Emeka Okafor who is a triple double threat as a freshman at UCONN. Avery had a 1.4 GPA and didn't even go to class in HS or at Duke and dropped out and wasn't a McDonalds allamerican like every other Duke recruit, K inexplicably chose him instead of USA Today HS player of the year and NBA allstar Baron Davis who was begging to go to Duke. Other terrible recruiting decisions include offering third team Minneapolis area Horvath over Matt Bonner who was Bob Gibbons top recruit at the time and was much more physically mature, with a 1400 SAT, 35 ppg and 14 rpg in HS, Bonner is a star for UF while brittle Nick sat out all of last year with a bruise. Another odd decision was offering Andre Sweet who barely qualified and transferred after academic troubles instead of JC Mathis who was bigger, better, smarter, recruited by the Ivy League and is now starting for top 10 UVA. Duke almost certainly would have won both the 99 and 2000 national titles if K hadn't turned away Baron, Bonner, and Casey Jacobsen who was national freshman of the year.
08-10-2002 05:41 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #13
 
I'm done with this. Now I see why Big Pimpin, JD, Lucy and ClemTiger were so sick of this bull****.

OK, why don't we ask THE GURUS about Duhon and NELSON, INSTEAD OF THEMSELVES!!!

Also, still waiting on this...

BTW, will you admit that you were wrong regarding
a) Shannon Brown
b) Duke recruiting 3 PFs when they aren't.
c) Dockery's ranking
?????
08-10-2002 07:41 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #14
 
What the hell are you talking about?
1) Baron Davis was bribed to go to UCLA. He got a car in exchange for going to UCLA.
2) Ousmane Cisse was screwed over by his guardian, Don Jackson (IIRC).
3) Duke chose Mike Dunleavy Jr. over Casey Jacobsen. Dunleavy got us a national championship, and was taken #3 in the NBA draft when Jacobsen was taken late lottery. Bad recruiting move by Coach K. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
4)JC Mathis didn't have interest in going to Duke.
5) Yeah, Duke's recruiting is so terrible... if we land Deng and Ebi, which is more than likely, we will have the #1 recruiting class 4 times out of the last 7 years.
5) Shannon Brown committed to MSU, not UK.
6) The only PF out of Duke's recruitng class is Kris Humphries.
7) Dockery is top 20, not top 40.
8) Duhon states he is coming back next year with 90% certainty.
9) DeMarcus Nelson said "of course" when asked if he will play PG at Duke.

THERE ARE 9 WAYS IN WHICH YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG! Now go back to BC, we dont want your bull**** here!
08-10-2002 08:42 PM
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Deep Blue
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Post: #15
 
1 the same way Brand and Boozer were bribed with Navigators to go to Duke? Everyone knows as a reported fact that Baron Davis himself said he wanted to go to Duke but K turned him down to recruit the idiot with the 1.4 GPA.

2 Cisse and his guardian broke all sorts of NCAA rules and he was too stupid to qualify anyway like his brother sitting out at Louisville, yet K still chose to recruit him instead of going after smart talented centers that would have won a national title for Duke in 2002 like Emeka Okafor and David Harrison who wanted to go to Duke even though K was ignoring him.

3 Jacobsen was Stanford's best player all 3 years and dominated Dunleavy as Stanford beat much more talented Duke teams twice, Duke could have won 3 national titles with Jacobsen, or 4 since his numbers may not have been good enough for him to go pro at Duke.

4 Mathis liked Ivy League and UVA but not Duke? BS, K just didn't recruit him or anyone else with talent and academics, K liked talentless Sweet who barely qualified, put on immediate academic probation and transferred, for no reason, did he owe someone a favor, what the hell was that about?

5 Does K just go after the top 2 or 3 players in the nation every year no matter what position they play, from soph or junior rankings? Who did K recruit at Army when he didn't have the Crazies and ESPN? K could have the #1 recruiting class every year and still get his ass kicked in the third round because he's not going to play half his stars anyway.

5a learn to count, K recruited Shannon Brown very late right before he committed elsewhere and shouldn't have gone after a SG at all since Duke has Ewing, Reddick, angeleyes, etc., and needed a PG.

6 6'8", 220, Luol Deng, and 6'8", 230, Kris Humphries, and 6'10", 200, Ndudi Ebi, are all PFs, still growing, and Ebi and Humphries could even be Duke type centers along with SheWill and benchwarmer Thompson, K obviously knows Wojo is the worst big man coach ever but he needs to recruit a PG.

7 Dockery may not even be top 40, most Duke recruits are overrated like Wojo, Collins, Joe Beard, etc., he can't shoot and his stock has been dropping rapidly and he gets killed everytime he plays another PG, outscored 14 to 0 by Felton, 24 to 4 by McNamara, 32 to 8 by an injured Ingram, etc.

8 Duhon is on the 3 year plan and has zero reason to stay, almost every top prospect claims he's planning to stay then drops out like Brand, Avery, Maggette, and Dunleavy, at least 90% chance Duhon goes pro early.

9 angeleyes himself says he's a 2 guard, plays 2 guard, and ballhandling is his biggest weakness, what's scary is that K probably did tell him he'll play PG and Duke won't have any talented PGs on the roster soon, and only one mediocre idiotic PG who even played the position in HS. The way K ignores depth, it probably won't matter anyway, K would find a way to lose no matter how much talent and depth Duke had at every position.
08-11-2002 02:02 PM
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Coach Doh
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Post: #16
 
Originally posted by nate jonesacc:

K knows what he is doing.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

The record speaks for itself! <img border="0" alt="[Bow]" title="" src="graemlins/bow.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
08-11-2002 06:08 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #17
 
Um, Blue Devil/GRANT ON TDD,

In my book, you weren't an idiot before.

NOW YOU ARE!

Please, that post wreaks of so much false information I don't even know where to start! <img border="0" alt="[Puke]" title="" src="graemlins/puke.gif" />

The TDD guys sure know a lot about you...

DukeAgain
RS Freshman
Member # 212

posted August 11, 2002 02:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor ole Grant he is running out of boards. He has been banned from just about all the others. For those who may not be aware, Grant is s self proclaimed Duke grad/fan but he does nothing but trash the Duke program and criticize K constantly. He has been banned everywhere. Some Duke fan eh? and you know, he could very well be Smokefree. I have seen Smokefree cut and paste Grant/Blue Devils posts and portray them as the "Duke perspective" as only Smoke can do.
08-11-2002 06:21 PM
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hoops13
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Post: #18
 
Situation 1:
I see Duke being a top-10 team this year is IF Duhon really steps up his game an offensive role. If this happens, he will be gone after 3 years.

If Duhon is to stay for 4 years, then Duke will still be a top-25 team this year, but not very good like they could be.

----------------------------------

As a Tar Heel, I know Duhon can play. We have seen sparks of brilliance from him over the last 2 years. I expect him to fit right into the-gag-me- Duke leadership role(the floor slapping etc.) this year, and be their star, just like Battier moved into the driver's seat a few years ago. I expect Duhon to excel this year and lead Duke to Sweet-16 and then head to the NBA lottery after 3 years.
08-12-2002 10:24 AM
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Deep Blue
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Post: #19
 
Duhon is a top 4 prospect right now according to nbadraft.net, even though he hasn't shown much in college yet. Jacobsen keeps dominating Dunleavy even in the NBA which isn't surprising since Casey's a 6'6 SG with NBA range, he recently was the top scorer for the college allstar team that beat a team of NBA allstars in Magic Johnson's charity game, and also lit up Dunleavy for 35 points while fouling him out.

<a href="http://www.proexposure.com/stories/0711j.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.proexposure.com/stories/0711j.cfm</a>

Jacobsen would have been a killer for a loaded team like Duke if he wasn't the focus of every opposing defense, probably for 4 years since he barely got drafted while leading Stanford in scoring all 3 years. It's too bad K turned down players like Jacobsen and Baron and ignored smart superstars like Harrison, Okafor, and Bonner, how many championships should Duke have won just in the last few years?

Why the hell did Duke have only one PG in 99, especially since Avery had a 1.4 GPA in HS and skipped tons of classes, both in HS and at Duke? K knew that Wojo was graduating, and that Duke would have only 9 scholarship players and one PG in 99, why didn't he recruit a PG? How did Avery stay off academic suspension, any chance Duke would do the right thing even if Avery was the only PG on one of the greatest teams of all time?

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Deep Blue ]</small>
08-14-2002 11:05 PM
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nate jonesacc
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Post: #20
 
a) You are an idiot. If you don't listen to Duhon himself, then who do you listen to? People who speculate about him?

b) We didn't need a ball hog like Jacobsen. We needed a good passer/rebounder team player like dunleavy. We got what we wanted and needed and got a championship from it.

c) Ya know, that 99 team was terrible, with that 37-2 record and all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
08-20-2002 04:06 PM
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