TMcCarty Wrote:I don't like TO because he short-arms balls over the middle, and because when he attacks someone in the media, it's when that person's down. He called Jeff Garcia gay when Garcia was in the middle of a slump. He dissed McNabb when they were all hurting after the Super Bowl loss. He slammed Bill Parcells after Parcells left the Cowboys.

Have you seen Jeff Garcia's woman?

GrayBeard Wrote:Bonds is disliked by many because it looks as if he did do steroids. Also, I sure hope he doesn't break that white guys home run record.

Huh? Hank Aaron is white? Damn, please don't tell me he's gone and Michael Jacksoned himself.

Also, what about Tiki Barber? People LOVE the guy, same with Jerome Bettis. Soph, please tell me you don't think that acting like you have some sense makes you "seem white" or like an "uppity negro". Acting like you have some sense is acting like you have some sense. Shouldn't matter the color. We see this **** in schools all the time. Making good grades is somehow "acting white". Many black children bust their asses to get into the two magnet schools here in Augusta to get away from that ****.

GrayBeard Wrote:

TMcCarty Wrote:I don't like TO because he short-arms balls over the middle, and because when he attacks someone in the media, it's when that person's down. He called Jeff Garcia gay when Garcia was in the middle of a slump. He dissed McNabb when they were all hurting after the Super Bowl loss. He slammed Bill Parcells after Parcells left the Cowboys.

Have you seen Jeff Garcia's woman?

When I see pictures of her, I know there's a God.

fsquid Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

TMcCarty Wrote:I don't like TO because he short-arms balls over the middle, and because when he attacks someone in the media, it's when that person's down. He called Jeff Garcia gay when Garcia was in the middle of a slump. He dissed McNabb when they were all hurting after the Super Bowl loss. He slammed Bill Parcells after Parcells left the Cowboys.

Have you seen Jeff Garcia's woman?

When I see pictures of her, I know there's a God.

Amen to that.

America generally likes their heros to be relatively polite, appreciative of their success, and willing to spread the accolades among their teammates. They are not so kind to those that are loud mouthed, act like what they have isn't enough - give me more, and give the impression that "its all about me".

The a'hole guys & chicks listed above generally fall into the later catagory in some form or fashion. And it really isn't a function of race what so ever.....it's much more the perception of being an a'hole to those they come in contact with.

Rebel is exactly right and every politician also knows this.....piss off your constituency too much and it's can be a quick fall from grace.

GrayBeard Wrote:Soph, I think you are way off on this. A couple of examples.

The Dixie Chicks....Has nothing to do with them being women, but instead about who their base listeners are. They are conservative people, so they were tarred and feathered because they expressed an opinion that was against the opinions of their listeners. Dumb move on their part.

Terrell Owens...People don't like him because he is a showboat with what appears to a lack of work ethic and a huge mouth/ego that tends to bash others. It has nothing to do with him being black. The dude does have some massive talent.

Bonds is disliked by many because it looks as if he did do steroids. Also, I sure hope he doesn't break that white guys home run record.

Sheffield is a race baiter. He and EZ2 may be related.

The Chicks are hated in part for what they said, but also because they have the audacity to be female AND for speaking their mind.

TO has one of the best work ethics in the history of the league. Anyone who questions his work ethic is insane.

Bonds is a jerk, yes, but the reason that he is a jerk to the media, and the reason that they hate him so much goes back to how they treated his father, and how middle aged white guys don't like outspoken, young Black guys.

Sheffield isn't the brightest bulb out there, and I think that his recent comments are mis-directed, to say the least.

GGniner Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:Bonds is disliked by many because it looks as if he did do steroids. Also, I sure hope he doesn't break that white guys home run record.

Bonds is also disliked because he has a horrible personality, just not likeable at all. Similar to Kobe Bryant, both arrogant pricks.

oh, and Barry Bonds* derserves an * next to his name, as that is how he's going down in the 'history books'

Kobe Bryant isn't attacked by the media anywhere NEAR as much as Bonds--and he raped a girl.

Crebman Wrote:America generally likes their heros to be relatively polite, appreciative of their success, and willing to spread the accolades among their teammates. They are not so kind to those that are loud mouthed, act like what they have isn't enough - give me more, and give the impression that "its all about me".

The a'hole guys & chicks listed above generally fall into the later catagory in some form or fashion. And it really isn't a function of race what so ever.....it's much more the perception of being an a'hole to those they come in contact with.

Rebel is exactly right and every politician also knows this.....piss off your constituency too much and it's can be a quick fall from grace.

They especially like it if you're a Black guy who "knows his place". That's part of what Sheffield was TRYING to say, and what Ali, Jack Johnson, TO, and Barry Bonds are and have gone through.

Sophandros Wrote:The Chicks are hated in part for what they said, but also because they have the audacity to be female AND for speaking their mind.

Oh bull****, Soph. How's that ******* Steve Earle doing? Oh, that's right, no one will touch the fool.

Sophandros Wrote:Kobe Bryant isn't attacked by the media anywhere NEAR as much as Bonds--and he raped a girl.

Kobe isn't as much of a dick as Bonds is and I also don't believe for a second he raped that bimbo. Also, last I checked, he's black as well. Or is he no black enough?

Sophandros Wrote:They especially like it if you're a Black guy who "knows his place". That's part of what Sheffield was TRYING to say, and what Ali, Jack Johnson, TO, and Barry Bonds are and have gone through.

Knows his place? How about acting like you have some damn sense? How about realizing which side your bread is buttered on? Why is this acting white, Soph? They want to speak their minds, treat their fans anyway they want to be treated, then don't be surprised when those same people, who PAY your salary, tell you to take a f'n hike. That's not even business 1101, it's a 097.

RebelKev Wrote:

Sophandros Wrote:They especially like it if you're a Black guy who "knows his place". That's part of what Sheffield was TRYING to say, and what Ali, Jack Johnson, TO, and Barry Bonds are and have gone through.

Knows his place? How about acting like you have some damn sense? How about realizing which side your bread is buttered on? Why is this acting white, Soph? They want to speak their minds, treat their fans anyway they want to be treated, then don't be surprised when those same people, who PAY your salary, tell you to take a f'n hike. That's not even business 1101, it's a 097.

Please tell me where I typed the words, "Acting white". Seriously, if you want for this or any other discussion to continue, please tell me where I stated--or even implied--that someone is "acting white" or should "act Black". Because I don't believe in (actually, I abhor and despise) stereotypes, please tell me what "acting white" is and "acting Black" is. Unless, of course, you would agree with me that it would be better to drop the subject.

Regardless of whether you want to drop that line, I said NOTHING of the sort, and your implication that I said anythign remotely like that is, at best, insulting.

Anyway, what you typed above, however, IS the sort of thing that I'm talking about, which is that your paragraph essentially says, "Know your place, boy." Johnson got in trouble for it. Ali got in trouble for it. TO is getting in trouble for it.

Sophandros Wrote:Please tell me where I typed the words, "Acting white". Seriously, if you want for this or any other discussion to continue, please tell me where I stated--or even implied--that someone is "acting white" or should "act Black". Because I don't believe in (actually, I abhor and despise) stereotypes, please tell me what "acting white" is and "acting Black" is. Unless, of course, you would agree with me that it would be better to drop the subject.

Regardless of whether you want to drop that line, I said NOTHING of the sort, and your implication that I said anythign remotely like that is, at best, insulting.

Anyway, what you typed above, however, IS the sort of thing that I'm talking about, which is that your paragraph essentially says, "Know your place, boy." Johnson got in trouble for it. Ali got in trouble for it. TO is getting in trouble for it.

Oh whatever, Soph. There were two sides to the TO situation. They either sided with TO, or they sided with McNabb. BOTH are black and it has nothing to do with color. It has to do with attitude. Know your place? In a way, yes, because it is essentially, "know which side youre bread is buttered on". This has not a damn thing to do with color. YOU made it about race. Not me.

RebelKev Wrote:

Sophandros Wrote:Please tell me where I typed the words, "Acting white". Seriously, if you want for this or any other discussion to continue, please tell me where I stated--or even implied--that someone is "acting white" or should "act Black". Because I don't believe in (actually, I abhor and despise) stereotypes, please tell me what "acting white" is and "acting Black" is. Unless, of course, you would agree with me that it would be better to drop the subject.

Regardless of whether you want to drop that line, I said NOTHING of the sort, and your implication that I said anythign remotely like that is, at best, insulting.

Anyway, what you typed above, however, IS the sort of thing that I'm talking about, which is that your paragraph essentially says, "Know your place, boy." Johnson got in trouble for it. Ali got in trouble for it. TO is getting in trouble for it.

Oh whatever, Soph. There were two sides to the TO situation. They either sided with TO, or they sided with McNabb. BOTH are black and it has nothing to do with color. It has to do with attitude. Know your place? In a way, yes, because it is essentially, "know which side youre bread is buttered on". This has not a damn thing to do with color. YOU made it about race. Not me.

What's funny is that recently, word out of Philly is that McNabb was the problem, not Owens, but the team wouldn't turn its back on Donovan.

Owens is opinionated and unafraid to speak his mind. For this, he is branded as a lot of things by the media, few of which are true or deserved. You have to ask yourself why that happens, or why guys like Jack Johnson, Muhammed Ali, Jim Brown, and others have received grief for commiting the crime of being outspoken.

There have been MANY times that I've read and heard people say that if TO would just keep his mouth shut, they'd be fans of his. Someone on this thread questioned his work ethic, even though that's the furthest thing from the truth.

I've seen it said many times that "these athletes should be grateful for what they have" about a Black athlete in a contract dispute, but almost never about a white athlete in a contract dispute. That's a holdover in our culture from a more overtly racist era.

Your denial of the existence of racism--even in sport (where you would THINK that it's a meritocracy)--is a huge part of the problem in this country. Race and racial issues are the elephant in our living room that we're afraid to deal with.

Now, that said, I have to repeat that Sheffield was off-base with his comments, and that he should be focusing his energy on trying to convince the Black community to embrace baseball again and promote the game among Black youths.

Ok, again, how is being outspoken a racial trait? Damn, you're sounding as bigoted as you say I am. As I stated a while back, I was ALL for TO when that **** broke. McNabb was an idiot not to give TO at least SOME credit for them getting to where they were at. However, as time dragged on, TO sounded more and more like a little ***** and many people became turned off. Me, for one. Had nothing to do with color, unless you think acting like a little ***** is also a racial trait. Ali, et. al, same difference. Ali protested Vietnam, got into bed with black supremacist groups, and pretty much went moonbat leftist, and it turned people off. It wouldn't have mattered if he went completely right and became a right-wing nutjob, people STILL would have been turned off. How do you think Ty Cobb would be perceived in todays time with the same though process he had? Not too well, huh? Why? Because he would, erroneously, think that he could say any damn thing he wanted without repercussions. Yes, people can speak their minds. However, with every freely spoken word, there is a consequence. Action, reaction. No f'n need to introduce color into the scenario.

RebelKev Wrote:Ok, again, how is being outspoken a racial trait? Damn, you're sounding as bigoted as you say I am. As I stated a while back, I was ALL for TO when that **** broke. McNabb was an idiot not to give TO at least SOME credit for them getting to where they were at. However, as time dragged on, TO sounded more and more like a little ***** and many people became turned off. Me, for one. Had nothing to do with color, unless you think acting like a little ***** is also a racial trait. Ali, et. al, same difference. Ali protested Vietnam, got into bed with black supremacist groups, and pretty much went moonbat leftist, and it turned people off. It wouldn't have mattered if he went completely right and became a right-wing nutjob, people STILL would have been turned off. How do you think Ty Cobb would be perceived in todays time with the same though process he had? Not too well, huh? Why? Because he would, erroneously, think that he could say any damn thing he wanted without repercussions. Yes, people can speak their minds. However, with every freely spoken word, there is a consequence. Action, reaction. No f'n need to introduce color into the scenario.

I never said that being outspoken was a racial trait. What I've said is that when a Black athlete is outspoken, he's criticized. When a white athlete is outspoken, he's not.

Sophandros Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:Bonds is disliked by many because it looks as if he did do steroids. Also, I sure hope he doesn't break that white guys home run record.

Bonds is also disliked because he has a horrible personality, just not likeable at all. Similar to Kobe Bryant, both arrogant pricks.

oh, and Barry Bonds* derserves an * next to his name, as that is how he's going down in the 'history books'

Kobe Bryant isn't attacked by the media anywhere NEAR as much as Bonds--and he raped a girl.

Yeah, but he did it with a smile and a funny quote about Phil Jackson and Shaq.

Here is an a better example. Ray Lewis. Total piece of crap as a human being, outspoken, and killed a man, but reporters don't have a problem with him. (P.S. He is also black.)

Barry is an anomaly because he is a dick to reporters, which may be as a result of the way reporters treated his dad, but then that isn't really fair because how many of those reporters are the same? On the reporters side, I am 100% sure that race has nothing to do with their disdain for Bonds.

Sophandros Wrote:What I've said is that when a Black athlete is outspoken, he's criticized. When a white athlete is outspoken, he's not.

Then you're blinded by your own bigotry.

Sophandros Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:Ok, again, how is being outspoken a racial trait? Damn, you're sounding as bigoted as you say I am. As I stated a while back, I was ALL for TO when that **** broke. McNabb was an idiot not to give TO at least SOME credit for them getting to where they were at. However, as time dragged on, TO sounded more and more like a little ***** and many people became turned off. Me, for one. Had nothing to do with color, unless you think acting like a little ***** is also a racial trait. Ali, et. al, same difference. Ali protested Vietnam, got into bed with black supremacist groups, and pretty much went moonbat leftist, and it turned people off. It wouldn't have mattered if he went completely right and became a right-wing nutjob, people STILL would have been turned off. How do you think Ty Cobb would be perceived in todays time with the same though process he had? Not too well, huh? Why? Because he would, erroneously, think that he could say any damn thing he wanted without repercussions. Yes, people can speak their minds. However, with every freely spoken word, there is a consequence. Action, reaction. No f'n need to introduce color into the scenario.

I never said that being outspoken was a racial trait. What I've said is that when a Black athlete is outspoken, he's criticized. When a white athlete is outspoken, he's not.

How about when a white guy speaks ebonics?