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EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #21
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I don't care how many miles something is buried ... you don't nuke a country unprovoked ... period.
nuking a country and not taking option off table are two entirely different things, further we have been provoked. Iran has been in a state of war with us since seizing our embassy in 1979.....you don't take your leverage away in negotiations if you are playing to win, however Iran doesn't believe we have the will to use all our power to stop them which is why they go right along doing what they do

Quote:Israel can (and will) strike at Iran without our help. They have the necessary weapons and technology, and that genie isn't getting put back into its bottle.

israel will also need our support in the form of selling them weapons and publicly supporting them, something Paul voted against.

Quote:Spin it how you want -- we overthrew a nation based entirely off lies.
yet you can't cite a single 'lie' that is a real lie, in the face of facts...to do so is a 'lie' and sophmoric. The fact Saddam worked with bin laden and was a state sponsor of terror apparently means nothing to you, or the fact we are killing Al-Qaeda terrorist every day over there...


Quote:Reagan also turned tail and left the Middle East when he said he never would. You should read his memoirs on this matter some time. Ron Paul has certainly been hammering away at Reagan's "irrationality of Middle Eastern politics" line in his memoirs. Furthermore, Reagan's fiscal policy isn't sound. But our current President makes even Reagan look like a penny pinching Scrooge.

and Bin Laden notes in his reasons for attacking us, something paul omits, that Beirut along with other signs of weakness were proof that we are a paper tiger and they could beat us......you have to literally think Reagan was of the worst presidents ever to support a guy like Paul. Reagan bombed Lybia trying to kill gadafi, provided some support for Saddam while he was fighting iran, supplied afghans with weapons to beat the Soviets, invaded Grenada and all the other Central american conflicts...he was one big interventionist. All in the aims of thwarting our big enemy, the Soviets and stopping a very bloody WW3 from taking place....

Quote:It's very logical. All of our dealings in the Middle East do not pertain directly to us. Most of our dealings there are also unprovoked. Japan, by contrast, attacked us. It is they who experienced the blowback of their unwarranted actions. You still clearly do not understand non-interventionism ... or the "Just War" Theory.

the current conflict does fall under 'just war', if you understand what is going and the fact they are sponsored, funded and harbored terrorist, including Al-Qaeda. Bin Laden had an agreement with him. A terrorist that bombed the WTC in 93 was on Saddams Payroll!!!!

also, germany never attacked us. they declared war on us just like saddam and iran have however. the isolationist then did not want to fight hitler and didn't think it was our 'problem' and should butt out...

you are the one that doesn't understand 'non-interventionism', Paul himself has said we should'nt have meddled in Iran in the 50's, but then you say we should do exactly what Churchill and Eisenhower did then, now...something Paul is against, naively..



Quote:they found WMDs?! News to me! Prove it. Let's see some links. Certainly monkey boy Bush would have beaten the "we found WMD" drum into oblivion if he did find any... but it's awfullllllly quiet on that front.
one example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3872201.stm
there are only a few things you can do with enriched uranium, and a power plant wasnt one in Iraq since they didn't have any. They also found 1500 gallons of chemical weapons and other devices ideal for dirty bombs, then weapons like this that prove they lied to UN and were in violation
[Image: IRAQ3.jpg]

the media/left have no desire to talk about this, as apparently we didn't find enough stockpiles to satisfy them(or their political motivations got in the way)....there are also multiple reports, intel that suggest alot of the stockpiles fled into Syria right before the war, they were Russian and French made, in violation of UN sanctions.....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/...iraq_x.htm
Quote:On another issue, UNMOVIC said advanced testing and analysis had indicated that the strain of anthrax found on R400 bombs that Iraq declared that it unilaterally destroyed was the same strain that it had earlier declared to have weaponized.

Quote: Just because our invasion of Iraq caused psychos to come into Iraq with chemical weapons doesn't mean Saddam was toting them around.

they were there before we invaded, this is documented fact. some of the 93 WTC bombers were on the Iraqi govt. payroll....Jihadist are all over the world, to say they are everywhere but magically weren't in Saddam's police state is stupid





Quote:Oil prices will skyrocket and never come back down in less than half a century anyway. It's called peak oil, and it WILL happen. It's like we're ignoring a broken leg to pay all of our attention to putting a bandaid on a paper cut.
"Peak Oil" is a theory, there are other 'theories' like the "Deep Hot Biosphere" by Thomas Gold which states Oil is not a fossil fuel but a Renewable resource that is created at core of earth and bubbles up through the crust, there is some evidence for it like oil in places there shouldn't be if it was 'fossil fuel's and oil reserves they thought were dried up then go back years later and there is oil again...

Quote:You realize you're talking about censorship, right? Shall we have thought crime too?
not talking about shutting down internet or censorship, I'm talking about an ideological war taking place and the ease to which it can spread into our borders, thus the need to confront it. Just check out the state of London today thinks to this and spread of islamist, I posted a great article on it in other thread about "speech codes".....

good sumation of the state of jihad and how we don't have a Fortress America to hide behind in the modern world: "It was a Hamburg cell that pulled off 9/11, a British subject who was the shoebomber, a Montreal welfare recipient who tried to blow up LAX, a London School of Economics man who had Daniel Pearl executed ... At one level, that's just plain operational sense: Al-Qaeda obviously has no shortage of crazy Waziristani goatherds it can recruit but they tend to stand out at the check-in counter at United. A Western-educated engineering graduate doesn't."

Quote:See the above Africa example.

See Korea example, are we at odds with South Korea or North korea today? What would state of world be like had we not acted then? How much stronger would NK be if it was just Korea and they still had control of SK?.... We literally turned the lights/liberty on in South Korea and have reaped the dividends ever since. Every use Korean electronics, engineering, etc? LG electronics for example? all thanks to Truman and company...
06-24-2007 04:16 PM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #22
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
I'll have to give Paul credit for some truth in some of his quotes:

Quote: The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. — Ron Paul

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. — Ron Paul

Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity. — Ron Paul

this he's absolutely right about.

however, he's pro-life on the basis of abortion is the 'use of force', that is the only morality in his stance and doesn't include the fact life starts at conception and the baby has rights to be protected, murder is illegal, etc...all about the 'use of force'. He uses same logic in being anti-death penalty....this isn't a christian position as much as its a pacifist position, and the same logic he uses with Foreign policy which is so dangerous.....he also is apparently unaware of the history of the founders in regards to this issue, Barbary Wars, etc........he and Kucinich are the Ghandi candidates
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2007 04:21 PM by GGniner.)
06-24-2007 04:19 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #23
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
Quote:- “By far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government” and that the goal of the Zionist movement is to stifle criticism.

I agree with that statement 100%. It is even supported by the Sharon who was quoted as saying Isreal can do whaterver they want in the Middle East, because "Isreal owns the United States."

and he was the ONLY Repub that voted against supporting Israel in Hezzbollah war last year, a vote that was nothing more than a show of support against a terrorist enemy.

Hezzbollah may be your terrorist, and the terrorist of the media, and those that support Isrealj, but not mine. I'm glad he voted the way he did, and I'll vote for him fpr president.
06-24-2007 05:40 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #24
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
GGniner Wrote:http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/a.../paul.html


aside from the fact the guy is dead wrong if not nuts about the islamist/Iran....btw, ready to admit Iran has a navy and Air Force?....for the sake of argument, say by luck he was nominated and take away his nutty views on foreign policy, he's unelectable on these racist comments alone. The Dems will rack him over the head for it, plus it fits right into the Dem/Lib/Media template that "republicans are racist".

go to DU, or 9/11 Truther sites and Alex Jones site Prison Planet sometime to see who is supporting him.......or do you beleive that either the govt. were behind 9/11, or that the Jews did 9/11 and used the "Jew media" to blame it on the islamist?

don't get me wrong, I'm sympathic/agree with some of his domestic policy ideas but that's its. The John Birch Society is supporting him...

example of a Ron Paul Supporter/911 Truther: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus...d=82541808

I'll don't see any of this as being any crazier than those who blindly support Isreal.
06-24-2007 05:41 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #25
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
GGniner Wrote:also, since Ron Paul linked 9/11 to Iraq in debate(contridicting past statements on the matter as justification for voting against Iraq war)...and suggest we "listen to what they say for why they attacked us"....lets do thatBin Laden's Letter to the American People

Quote:What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions.
...
You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator.

I'm not sure that I can accept that as truely being from Bin Laden, but it doesn't matter. There are more than enough other sources by Islamists that condem the US for their military support of Isreal.
06-24-2007 05:45 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #26
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
GGniner Wrote:fusion of right-left idiocy:

yesterday the house voted on this:

Quote:Calling on the United Nations Security Council to charge Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with violating the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and the United Nations Charter because of his calls for the destruction of the State of Israel

Two congressmen, 2, voted NAY....guess who? Dennis Kookcinch and Ron Paul, the same Ron Paul that calls Israel "“By far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government”...of all the lobbies in Washington he finds Israel to be the worse, then he goes on 9/11 Truth nut radio shows and panders to them and anti-semites like Alex Jones........unelectable

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll513.xml

Quote:---- NAYS 2 ---

Kucinich
Paul
let me guess, Paul has a 'principled' explanation based on an anti-UN stance?

Excellent. Ron Paul did the right thing. Why is Iran's anger with Isreal our responsibility? Besides, Ahmadinejad did not say Isreal should be wiped off of the face of the earth, but the evil government of Isreal. Then he compared his intent with the dissolution of the government of the USSR. I doubt many Americans found that to be a bad thing.
06-24-2007 05:50 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #27
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
Ron Paul has, along with Kucinich, called for 'new investigations' into 9/11....capitulating to the conspiracy loons... The fact that he goes to the '9/11 Truth movement' and speaks to them, gives their 'movement' legitimacy and is all one needs to know, it would be totally different if he spoke to them and told them how wrong they are and ridiculous their 'theory' of 9/11 is. the video of him with the "scholars for 9/11 truth" is dispicable and dangerous.

I notice you have the words "scholars for 9/11 Truth" in quotation marks. Are you privy to some information that would expose those people as not being scholars? Besides, if those scholars are wrong, then the media and the government should debate the issues in the light of day, and disprove their theories. If Ron Paul speaking to them gives them credence, then arguements against them is fragile at best.


I want out of UN as well, but that has zero to do with his irrational voting. Politically its dumb, secondly we are already there and this is the way it works and completely out of bounds with what the vote was for..... the vote was for nothing more than a vote of support for Israel, something he's voted against before.
[/quote]

I don't consider a vote against Isreal to be wrong. I think that is the patriotic thing for any American to do.
06-24-2007 05:57 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #28
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
from the Senate Record on Sept. 12, 2002: Senator Fritz Hollins connects 9/11 to Iraq

he enters into Senate record an Iraqi newspaper editorial(state run of course) from July 21, 2001 basically predicting 9/11 and praising Bin Laden....
[/quote]


You say "basically prediciting 9/11," yet I read no mention of the trade centers in the record.
06-24-2007 06:07 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #29
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
GGniner Wrote:however, he's pro-life on the basis of abortion is the 'use of force', that is the only morality in his stance and doesn't include the fact life starts at conception and the baby has rights to be protected, murder is illegal, etc...all about the 'use of force'. He uses same logic in being anti-death penalty....this isn't a christian position as much as its a pacifist position, and the same logic he uses with Foreign policy which is so dangerous.....he also is apparently unaware of the history of the founders in regards to this issue, Barbary Wars, etc........he and Kucinich are the Ghandi candidates

FWIW ... Life beginning at conception depends entirely on your definition of life. Strictly speaking, at conception "it" is as alive as the millions of skin cells you shed every day. If you're going to argue for it being a human -- I would have to think that would have to start when the brain forms.
06-24-2007 06:08 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #30
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
why there are no terrorist and there certainly aren't any terrorist sponsoring states, why its all been a dream. I'm so releived, its also wonderful news to know that an outlaw regime run by lunatics getting possession of NUKES is ok, why they have every right to have them and are no threat to the world. sweet, then I guess all the sunni arab countries can have nukes as I'm sure they'll proceed to get them. and Iran has no miltiary as ron paul says, what a relief, we are only known in Iran as "Big Satan", no need to support "little satan".....:wingedeagle

The Palestinians, Syrians, Egyptians, Iranians, Iraquis, Lebonese and others did not invent terrorism. It was thrust upon them by Zionism. There already exists an "outlaw" regime run by lunatics that possess nukes, it's called Isreal.



Terrorism is an "immediate threat" and Iran since 1979 has been the leading sponsor of it!!!!!!!!! but lets just do nothing and let these clowns get nukes, a power that is basically irrevesible and would be a huge propaganda win with drawing more nuts into Jihad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

we tried Ron Pauls version of foreign policy after WW1, it lead to WW2 as the world refused to recognized the growing threat of Hitler that Churchilll warned them about...history is repeating itself. This is the same mindset that led to great depression as well on the economic isolationism front.....now the global economy is as interconnected as ever.[/quote]
[/quote]

Oh, so that's what led to WWII. Not the communist threat, the hadrships placed on much of Europe by the post WWI declarations, the extreme porverty and personal hardships. No, that financial rape of central Europe certainly couldn't cause any discord.
06-24-2007 06:17 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #31
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
[quote=GGniner]
also Israel is about to be bogged down in a war with Iran client states, and terrorist, Hamas and Hezzbollah....while Iran races towards a nuke, and there is a report out today they are very close to one.

secondly, if Israel did bomb Iran they would likely have to use some type of nuke b/c their bomb making facilities are deep in the side of mountains. And if they do this they will need the support of the US and 'world community'....something Ron Paul voted NO on along with Kucinich, both of which are pandering to anti-semtic loons like Alex Jones.

Good. We should not be siding with Isreal.

if Paul was really voting 'in principal' because he doesnt' beleive in the UN, he could've simply voted "present" with no Vote or not shown up. Voting "NO" gives just as much legitimacy to the UN as voting "YES" in support of Israel.

another question, is the world worse off or better off thanks to Truman and the fruits of his 'interventionism'?
[Image: thenightwriterblog-Light_and_dark_Korea-small.jpg]

Well, let's see, over 100 million deaths at the hands of the communists, millions more throughout the Middle East and Europe since. Continuous death and maiming. The frontal assault on Christianity in the US and abroad. Yep, things are definately worse.

06-24-2007 06:29 PM
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GrayBeard Offline
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Post: #32
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
For someone he gets on here and points out racism in others, Observer, you sure do show a lot of it yourself.
06-24-2007 06:45 PM
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Observer Offline
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Post: #33
RE: EXCELLENT Ron Paul Video
Screw Isreal! Remember the Liberty!
06-24-2007 07:45 PM
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