Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Yep...Even the GOP lost it principles....Damn...That LBJ was a fine President.

I remember hearing someone say, "I don't know much about politics. People told me that if I voted for Goldwater we'd have war in Vietnam and higher taxes. I didn't believe them, but they were right. I voted for Goldwater, and we had war in Vietnam and higher taxes."

Yeah...The war mongering scare tactics are very effective.

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The gay-rights agenda does not only include requiring religious approval, but membership and leadership privileges. Have you forgotten their countless lawsuits against the Boy Scouts that ultimately had to be resolved by the United States Supreme Court? When they did not like that ruling, they took the spiteful unprecedented step of getting United Way to set up donations not for choice of specific organizations, but to Exclude specific organizations from receiving benefit at the donor's choice.

The Boy Scouts are not a religious organization. The Supreme Court case was decided on free speech & freedom of association grounds (not freedom of religion). http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/06/28/s...boyscouts/

What is spiteful about wanting to ensure that the donations you make to a charitable clearing house do not go to an organization that discriminates against you? It seems perfectly reasonable to me, just as it would if an anti-abortion group requested a no Planned Parenthood option.

Quote:Your response to item #2, I'm not saying ban gays from public education system. I am saying that many public school systems teach elementary school students from books with stories like "Daddy's Special Friend" and "My Two Mommies". In middle school and high school sex education now includes homosexual topics.

Gays help fund the public education system, even though, by virtue of them not being breeders, they are much less likely to directly benefit from it. There are also gays attending public schools. There is no reason to marginalize their lifestyle, particularly by the time they reach high school.

Quote:Your response to #4. How would I feel if someone walked around the office saying anti-Christian epitaphs? I have to put up with countless individuals who can't express themselves intelligently in a stressful situation so they fall back on G..D... this and G..D... that to emphasize their point. Some are even more colorful with Jesus ..... Christ. It would be career suicide if I were to report this and having worked in several fortune 500 companies I've come to the conclusion my only choice is to ignore this behavior.

I'm not sure taking the Lord's name in vain qualifies as an anti-Christian epitath. Since the vast majority of this country is Christian it's pretty likely that the people cursing were Christians themselves.

It's also pretty obvious that you & I have worked in some different offices (I've heard all my examples on numerous ocassions). That's probably not too surprising since I work in construction & we aren't exactly known for our high standards.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

blah Wrote:As opposed to say the Libertarian party which has years and years of success and voter support....

Not bad given:
- No debate access
- Media blackout


And thd GOP gets to claim the great prize of the most unpopular President ... ever. That's worse than Hoover. Worse than Carter. Worse than Nixon. Impressively bad.

People didn't like Lincoln much during the early years of the Civil War. Had it not been for some timely Union victories Mcclellan would have probably beat him.
Rosy outlooks equal high approval ratings.

perunapower Wrote:Now why would the Republican Party do that? Hmm...

Oh yeah, that's because it was the biggest landslide in American political history. 61% for LBJ to 38.5% for Goldwater.

That had everything to do with Daisy, and old man Goldwater's more aggressive foreign policy towards the Russkies. It was a close race until Daisy aired.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

perunapower Wrote:Now why would the Republican Party do that? Hmm...

Oh yeah, that's because it was the biggest landslide in American political history. 61% for LBJ to 38.5% for Goldwater.

That had everything to do with Daisy, and old man Goldwater's more aggressive foreign policy towards the Russkies. It was a close race until Daisy aired.

Didn't have anything to with Goldwater having alienated moderate Republicans by voting against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which Johnson championed?

Didn't have anything to do with the fact that Goldwater said that "sometimes I think this country would be better off if we could just saw off the Eastern Seaboard and let it float out to sea" in 1961?

Johnson won by such a large margin because Goldwater would quite frequently stick his foot in his mouth.


Very effective political ad.

jh Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:The gay-rights agenda does not only include requiring religious approval, but membership and leadership privileges. Have you forgotten their countless lawsuits against the Boy Scouts that ultimately had to be resolved by the United States Supreme Court? When they did not like that ruling, they took the spiteful unprecedented step of getting United Way to set up donations not for choice of specific organizations, but to Exclude specific organizations from receiving benefit at the donor's choice.

The Boy Scouts are not a religious organization. The Supreme Court case was decided on free speech & freedom of association grounds (not freedom of religion). http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/06/28/s...boyscouts/

Perhaps not, but the VAST majority of scout troops are subsidized and/or funded and sponsored by churches. Not really arguing with your point, because I've not taken the time to read it... but I want to be clear about this. It's sort of like saying that the NCAA isn't a "college" organization... It's not... but without the colleges, it wouldn't exist.

Quote:What is spiteful about wanting to ensure that the donations you make to a charitable clearing house do not go to an organization that discriminates against you? It seems perfectly reasonable to me, just as it would if an anti-abortion group requested a no Planned Parenthood option.

Quote:Your response to item #2, I'm not saying ban gays from public education system. I am saying that many public school systems teach elementary school students from books with stories like "Daddy's Special Friend" and "My Two Mommies". In middle school and high school sex education now includes homosexual topics.

Gays help fund the public education system, even though, by virtue of them not being breeders, they are much less likely to directly benefit from it. There are also gays attending public schools. There is no reason to marginalize their lifestyle, particularly by the time they reach high school.

This isn't a good argument, because it opens the question about apartment dwellers and childless couples. Do we have courses about impotence?? It's not a choice either. Do we have courses on "the traditional family"?? How about courses on divorced parents... which are unfortunately MUCH more common.

If the question is about people being mistreated, then punish those who are mistreating others... REGARDLESS of why they are doing it.

Just another reason to further dilute the course of study in public schools.

jh Wrote:Gays help fund the public education system, even though, by virtue of them not being breeders, they are much less likely to directly benefit from it. There are also gays attending public schools. There is no reason to marginalize their lifestyle, particularly by the time they reach high school.


I'm not sure taking the Lord's name in vain qualifies as an anti-Christian epitath. Since the vast majority of this country is Christian it's pretty likely that the people cursing were Christians themselves.

It's also pretty obvious that you & I have worked in some different offices (I've heard all my examples on numerous ocassions). That's probably not too surprising since I work in construction & we aren't exactly known for our high standards.

I'm not saying Gays don't help fund the public education system, but so do Christians, Muslims, Vegans, etc. and their values aren't taught as part of the curriculum. The point of taxpayer funding on deciding what should be taught isn't a good justification because every lifestyle funds it so no way should one value system be set above others. By your standard any by your own statement "the vast majority of this country is Christian" Prayer in school should be allowed as well as teaching the Bible.

I site examples of people using very non-Christian profanity and you say it was probably spoken by Christians so it's acceptable?!? The thing with being a Christian is you don't really have to do anything to say you are, attending church not required, reading the bible not required, sadly a majority of those that call themselves Christians rarely attend church and probably don't own a Bible.

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:I'm not saying Gays don't help fund the public education system, but so do Christians, Muslims, Vegans, etc. and their values aren't taught as part of the curriculum. The point of taxpayer funding on deciding what should be taught isn't a good justification because every lifestyle funds it so no way should one value system be set above others. By your standard any by your own statement "the vast majority of this country is Christian" Prayer in school should be allowed as well as teaching the Bible.

I never said that gay values should be set above any other. I said that gays should not be marginalized or ignored. I learned about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Mormonism, and other religions & ideologies in public school (not sure about the vegans though,they might have a complaint). I learned about women's sufferage & the Civil Rights movement. I read books with married couples, widowed fathers, single sexually active people, and adulterers. I don't remember much about my sex ed class (other than Miss Baxter was really hot & probably shouldn't have been talking about sex with a bunch of 9th graders), but I'm willing to bet it was entirely straight.

I don't remember ever learning anything about homosexuals or reading any books with homosexual characters. When I went through high school the gays were ignored, and ignored in a way different than any other group that comes to mind.

Of course, personally I'd rather do away with the public education system as a whole.

Quote:I site examples of people using very non-Christian profanity and you say it was probably spoken by Christians so it's acceptable?!?

That's not what I ment. Intent matters. Even if they were only nominally Christian, I doubt they were intentionally insulting their own faith. Most likely, they didn't mean anything offensive by it and didn't think it would be considered offensive. I think it's reasonable to assume that telling someone that you consider their lifestyle is immoral is likely to be considered offensive.