Quote:We have many exiting flights daily. Take your pick.

America, love her or leave her.:sgt-hartman::patriot:

Quote:BTW, stop being a pu55y.

Traditional message board etiquette. When you can't make a rational argument, turn douchebag and throw out personal attacks.

Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

GRPunk Wrote:Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

because we also lost it. kinda can't count that one.

GRPunk Wrote:Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

As one slave-holding nation losing to another slave-holding nation.

Probably above your intelligence, but oh well. Figured I'd throw that out.

GRPunk Wrote:Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

Cuz we lost the War of Northern Aggression

flyingswoosh Wrote:umm, let's see. the french were the supposed favorite and bernard had a body length lead going into the final 35-40 meters. tell me how that's not a choke.

It's not a choke to perform your best, or even close to your best, & still get beat by someone who does better.

In order to beat the French, the American team had to shatter the existing world record (which the French did also). Lezak's swim was the fastest 100m relay split ever and his finishing kick one of the most remarkable I've ever seen. Why denigrate the efforts of the American's by pretending the French gave the race away. They didn't - Lezak & his teamates went out & took it.

Quote:They didn't - Lezak & his teamates went out & took it.

i can live with that, though i think it only tells half the story. and for what it's worth, i wasn't denigrating the efforts of the US team. I was simultaneously complimenting the US, while dissing the french.

And i don't care what you say, bernard's stroke got stiff in the last 35 meters. His technique fell apart. That should not have happened in a 100M race. I would know, i swam competetively for about 6 years. He would be the first person to tell you that he should've been able to hold that lead.

Did you happen to watch Natalie Coughlin in the 100M back last night? Her stroke completely fell apart in the last 25 meters, yet she still won gold. I would describe that as nearly choking. You might describe it differently.

Laettners Legacy Wrote:

GRPunk Wrote:Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

Cuz we lost the War of Northern Aggression

Now knock that off. We all know that the War of Northern Aggression is just at intermission. It a'int ova yet, ya' hea' ?

GRPunk Wrote:I'm thinking we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Statistically speaking, he's scarily close to being correct.

And BTW ... anybody who has had a middle school class on Triangle Trade knows it was overwhelmingly those Yankees selling the slaves in the South. And regardless of what Hollywood you've seen, most were treated far better here than they were in Africa. For every racist with a whip, there were several Thomas Jeffersons.

I guess I was mistaken in believing the Civil War was also about keeping the Union together. That appears to have been a success for more than 140 years. You shouldn't discredit the successes of the U.S. military.

RiceDoc Wrote:

Laettners Legacy Wrote:

GRPunk Wrote:Of all the wars the U.S. won, how'd you guys miss listing the Civil War?

Cuz we lost the War of Northern Aggression

Now knock that off. We all know that the War of Northern Aggression is just at intermission. It a'int ova yet, ya' hea' ?

In the words of Boceifus..."The South's gonna rattle again!"

flyingswoosh Wrote:And i don't care what you say, bernard's stroke got stiff in the last 35 meters. His technique fell apart. That should not have happened in a 100M race. I would know, i swam competetively for about 6 years. He would be the first person to tell you that he should've been able to hold that lead.

This is just a bizarre thing to say. Perhaps you're coaching now and have some additional training, but I'm not sure that 6 years of swimming in Junior and Senior High is qualification to judge the stroke technique of the former world record holder. Bernard swam a 46.73 split in a race where getting under 47 is incredible. He didn't choke; Lezak was a freak. Think about these numbers: Lezak's split was 46.06, easily the fastest ever. But he gets an advantage because it's a visual reaction, as opposed to the sound reaction in a normal start. A good reaction time to a race start is about 0.75 seconds or so. A good "reaction time" at a relay transition is under 0.1. So if Lezak did really well, his reaction would have put him 0.6 or 0.7 ahead of what he (or anyone else) would have swum with a standard start. But he finished MORE THAN A SECOND under the WR (1.18). Unless my math is wrong, his swim would have obliterated the WR with even a mediocre start. No way Bernard or even Sullivan (new WR holder) could have expected to compete with that.

Brookes Owl Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:And i don't care what you say, bernard's stroke got stiff in the last 35 meters. His technique fell apart. That should not have happened in a 100M race. I would know, i swam competetively for about 6 years. He would be the first person to tell you that he should've been able to hold that lead.

This is just a bizarre thing to say. Perhaps you're coaching now and have some additional training, but I'm not sure that 6 years of swimming in Junior and Senior High is qualification to judge the stroke technique of the former world record holder. Bernard swam a 46.73 split in a race where getting under 47 is incredible. He didn't choke; Lezak was a freak. Think about these numbers: Lezak's split was 46.06, easily the fastest ever. But he gets an advantage because it's a visual reaction, as opposed to the sound reaction in a normal start. A good reaction time to a race start is about 0.75 seconds or so. A good "reaction time" at a relay transition is under 0.1. So if Lezak did really well, his reaction would have put him 0.6 or 0.7 ahead of what he (or anyone else) would have swum with a standard start. But he finished MORE THAN A SECOND under the WR (1.18). Unless my math is wrong, his swim would have obliterated the WR with even a mediocre start. No way Bernard or even Sullivan (new WR holder) could have expected to compete with that.

i'm not breaking down his stroke, i'm telling you that his technique faltered. It's fact. Even the announcer said so. Apparently you disagree with both of us, which is fine, no big deal.

I don't care how much he obliterated the WR by. This isn't about Lezak. I realize he swam a great race. You say bernard couldn't have competed with that. I say, why not? He's supposed to be the best anchor in the world. The best anchor in the world who had a full body length lead. If his stroke hadn't fallen apart, he would've won. Forget how much the record was broken by, it's unimportant. Bernard fell below his own expectations and yes, lezak did surpass his. I would never claim that the former was the sole reason for the US winning gold, but i would claim it was a combination of the two. You say it wasn't and i respect that, but i have to respectfully disagree.

Bernard certainly went out very hard - probably too hard when you consider how fast his first 50 split was - and I wouldn't argue if you wanted to say that fatigue impacted his stroke. But you are right that we'll have to disagree on whether anyone could have or should have expected him to beat Lezak's time. We have a chance, though, to see if my argument holds water: The 100m finals. If Bernard can get sub 47, I might have to concede your point.

Brookes Owl Wrote:Bernard certainly went out very hard - probably too hard when you consider how fast his first 50 split was - and I wouldn't argue if you wanted to say that fatigue impacted his stroke. But you are right that we'll have to disagree on whether anyone could have or should have expected him to beat Lezak's time. We have a chance, though, to see if my argument holds water: The 100m finals. If Bernard can get sub 47, I might have to concede your point.

don't misunderstand me, i didn't say bernard could necessarily have bested that amazing time. I'm saying even if he swam a couple tenths slower than that time, he still would've won. Let's not forget that they didn't exactly start out neck and neck. Bernard had a big lead.

And yes, i would say the fact he had nothing left in the tank was a choke in itself. There's no excuse for that. The 100 is a sprint, plain and simple.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And BTW ... anybody who has had a middle school class on Triangle Trade knows it was overwhelmingly those Yankees selling the slaves in the South. And regardless of what Hollywood you've seen, most were treated far better here than they were in Africa. For every racist with a whip, there were several Thomas Jeffersons.

you mean how he repeatedly raped Sally Hemings?

well, he didn't get a sub 47, but he did break the WR

flyingswoosh Wrote:well, he didn't get a sub 47, but he did break the WR

Not for long.

flyingswoosh Wrote:And yes, i would say the fact he had nothing left in the tank was a choke in itself. There's no excuse for that. The 100 is a sprint, plain and simple.

I think I disagree with this. While it's certainly possible to go out to fast & be unable to finish, I think a much bigger problem is to not go out fast enough. I prefer athletes with not enough left in the tank at the end instead of too much (obviously the goal is to get to the line with the needle exactly on empty). I want athletes daring to be great rather than hoping not to fail.