smn1256 Wrote:When Katrina wiped out NO the democrats were quick to blame Bush for much of it. Hurricane Gustav appears to have caused (at this time) much less damage and carnage. Should GW be given credit? Or maybe recognition of a republican governor doing what a democrat one didn't?

Or maybe it was a much smaller storm that wasn't able to breech the improved (at least the parts that are complete) levee system.

jh Wrote:

smn1256 Wrote:When Katrina wiped out NO the democrats were quick to blame Bush for much of it. Hurricane Gustav appears to have caused (at this time) much less damage and carnage. Should GW be given credit? Or maybe recognition of a republican governor doing what a democrat one didn't?

Or maybe it was a much smaller storm that wasn't able to breech the improved (at least the parts that are complete) levee system.

You could be right. But my point was that Katrina was made into a federal failure (read Bush) while the success of Gustav makes little mention, if any at all, of the efforts/money by the feds since Katrina.

The big difference is that they got the people out for Gustav, but they kept them in place for Katrina.

As far as what happened with flooding and levee breaks and all that with Katrina, that's about par for the course when that big a hurricane bears down that directly on a city that size that's below sea level. Some things are going to work, some aren't. We could spend $10 trillion to rebuild NO and unless we got it above sea level we'd be looking at the same risks. Seriously. What do you expect to happen differently? And why?

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:The big difference is that they got the people out for Gustav, but they kept them in place for Katrina.

As far as what happened with flooding and levee breaks and all that with Katrina, that's about par for the course when that big a hurricane bears down that directly on a city that size that's below sea level. Some things are going to work, some aren't. We could spend $10 trillion to rebuild NO and unless we got it above sea level we'd be looking at the same risks. Seriously. What do you expect to happen differently? And why?

I can't argue with you because I agree with your position. I'm merely stating that Katrina was dumped on Bush at a time when the local governments did little to save themselves. This time around the local governments did more to help themselves and the President didn't have to do very much. It just goes to to show that a local issue is best handled (in most cases) by the local government and Bush shouldn't have been the bad guy in Katrina.

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:The big difference is that they got the people out for Gustav, but they kept them in place for Katrina.

The contra-flow lanes on the Louisiana Interstates out of NOLA worked OK.... until they hit the Mississippi State Line.... and then they merged all together...

The people who lived out of their cars like gypsies on the shoulder of I-59 for a day and half because Nagin wouldn't let them back into New Orleans after the storm have a right to be pissed... but at least the National Guard and FEMA drove by and gave them bottled water and MRE's...

smn1256 Wrote:

Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:The big difference is that they got the people out for Gustav, but they kept them in place for Katrina.

I can't argue with you because I agree with your position. I'm merely stating that Katrina was dumped on Bush at a time when the local governments did little to save themselves. This time around the local governments did more to help themselves and the President didn't have to do very much. It just goes to to show that a local issue is best handled (in most cases) by the local government and Bush shouldn't have been the bad guy in Katrina.

No question it was a state decision to shelter in place instead of get everybody out for Katrina. From what I've heard, that was Blanco, but I don't know for sure. Somebody else may have a better handle on how that came to be. It sure wasn't Bush, he'd have had no role in that. He could have decided that Blanco/Nagin were going to cause the disaster that happened, tried to twist their arms to change, and at least in theory nationalized the Guard and used it to get people out. Don't know how that would have worked, but in any event he didn't do it.

I don't know when it came about to even consider keeping people in place. I worked on the emergency planning group back in the late 80s and early 90s, and at that time it was absolutely clear that if anything looked like a possible direct hit, you got everybody out of town. Having seen the plan back then, I was astounded when they didn't get everybody out for Katrina.

Substituting for Gustav, at Catagory 4 and 135 mph+ winds ready to push those levees...New Orleans residents, please evacuate for IKE....