Paul M Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:They will also get McDonalds/Wal-mart quality cars or force all the jobs overseas.

So now your going to credit the union with the quality? Once again, they are just the assemblers. They have NOTHING to do with craftsmenship or quality.

And their pay should be a whole lot closer to wal-mart pay than what they currently get. The workers at wal-mart and an auto assembly plant have a basic skill set that is inter-changeable.

I think it is strange how you are saying that the workers aren't responsible for the quality but in the past you(and the right wing) continually bashed and blamed the Unions for the lack of quality in American cars. FLIP-FLOP!

YOU credited the unions with quality. Please point to my post where I said the union had anything to do with quality. Others have pointed out how they have stood in the way of innovation and change.

The designers and engineers, r&d, managment, you know, the people with real skills and training, are responsible for quality.

Once again, and I don't know why I keep repeating myself, you didn't comprehind english yesterday and you wont tommorrow, the union members are nothing more than simple assemblers. They just line up A with B. Not rocket science. The quality is determined long before the workers see the first part.

I credited unions for quality? I think you need to re-read my post. I think the upper management and bean counters are mostly to blame but the people on the line need to put in every screw or the product won't hold up. I never said in that particular post that you said anything about Unions being the reason for quality but you and the republicans continually blame the unions for the poor quality of the cars and as you admit, it is mostly the engineers etc that are responsible. THis is where the flip flop is. Blaming the unions for poor quality then turning around and say, they don't actually do anything so they aren't responsible for quality.

Let me hold your hand and walk you through it like the kindergardener you are.

Quote:I credited unions for quality? I think you need to re-read my post.

You said,

Quote:They will also get McDonalds/Wal-mart quality cars...

I did not post that. Check the name of the person who wrote that-assuming you can in fact read.

Can I not logically assume that when you claim the quality will go down if pay goes down that the quality is high because the pay is high? And now you say,

Quote:but the people on the line need to put in every screw or the product won't hold up.

Forgive me for being intelligent but your giving credit to them once again after denying you did.

Well, I commented that there is a small amount of credit for quality in the sense that if they don't put in the screws or put them in incorrectly, the quality of the product will suffer BUT I said it is mainly the lack of interest in quality over the years by the top that is the significant factor in the crappy products. So I guess, you can say that I was giving them some credit for quality.

Quote:I never said in that particular post that you said anything about Unions being the reason for quality

Ah, yes you did. Twice. Ah, no I didn't. Note I said in that particular post.

Quote:I think it is strange how you are saying that the workers aren't responsible for the quality but in the past you(and the right wing) continually bashed and blamed the Unions for the lack of quality in American cars.

And then after denying that, you turned around and did it a third and fourth time No I didn't I said REPUBLICANS keep using Unions as the sole reason the car companies are in trouble.

Quote:Blaming the unions for poor quality

Quote:but you and the republicans continually blame the unions for the poor quality

So you not only don't read other peoples posts, you don't read your own. Amazing. [/b]

smn1256 Wrote:

mlb Wrote:Smn, your statement is like saying that all conservatives are murders and blow up abortion clinics.

If there's a good, honest union out there I've yet to encounter it. Until then they all suck.

smn...We dont agree on everything...but..I agree with you on unions. I oppose all collective bargaining. I worked 2 times in a union shop...I know first hand of the corruption and violence of unions.

I worked in 6 different fields in my career...I left jobs for various reasons on MY OWN ACCORD and finally found a job that I liked. The unions make wage slaves of workers. They force them to NEVER expand their horizons and actually seek fulfilling employment because of the inflated wages that they receive through collective bargaining. Yes...These workers make good livings..but..most just become wage driven robots that could have actually contributed more productively and have been more fulfilled in other jobs....MONEY is NOT everything. Unions make workers think it IS.

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:

BGSUalum1987 Wrote:There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

GM, Chrysler and Ford are teetering on the brink because, generally, their vehicles are not up to par with the competition and they haven't run efficient, let alone forward-thinking, businesses.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!! I owned a 1988 Oldsmobile that cost me $10K new. I drove the thing for 250,000 miles with nothing other than routine maintenance. My current Oldsmobile is a 2000 model with 115,000 miles on it with only routine maintenance. My wife's 2003 Chrysler has 100,000 miles on it with only routine maintenance. What was true about the Big 3 from 1975 - 1985 is no longer true. The Big 3 product is as good as any Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Hyundai and in many cases a more stylish car.

The Big 3 sell as many cars as competitors but still lose money, UNION WAGES AND BENEFITS are the biggest cost differential between them and the foreign companies. Last year (2007) GM and Toyota sold roughly the same number of cars world wide Toyota was profitable GM lost billions.

We all have our, "but my car is awesome" story. I have a 1998 Chevy Suburban that has 190,000 miles on it. It runs like a top and I fully expect to take my 11-year-old son to college in it when the time comes. But look at the overall numbers and there's little doubt that the American cars just have not held up as well as some of the top foreign badges.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

smn1256 Wrote:

mlb Wrote:Smn, your statement is like saying that all conservatives are murders and blow up abortion clinics.

If there's a good, honest union out there I've yet to encounter it. Until then they all suck.

smn...We dont agree on everything...but..I agree with you on unions. I oppose all collective bargaining. I worked 2 times in a union shop...I know first hand of the corruption and violence of unions.

I worked in 6 different fields in my career...I left jobs for various reasons on MY OWN ACCORD and finally found a job that I liked. The unions make wage slaves of workers. They force them to NEVER expand their horizons and actually seek fulfilling employment because of the inflated wages that they receive through collective bargaining. Yes...These workers make good livings..but..most just become wage driven robots that could have actually contributed more productively and have been more fulfilled in other jobs....MONEY is NOT everything. Unions make workers think it IS.

BINGO!

These workers could even expand their horizins ON THEIR JOB...but unions prevent it. This COULD help individual members who have good ideas, and the union as a whole as a company propsers. This COULD be a win win situation for everyone. Unions COULD be investing in their own people, but they CAN'T because they stifle their own people.

firmbizzle Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:

businesses will only have to pay McDonalds/Wal-Mart wages for working in the factories.

They will also get McDonalds/Wal-mart quality cars or force all the jobs overseas.

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Paul M Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:

You said,

Quote:They will also get McDonalds/Wal-mart quality cars...

I did not post that. Check the name of the person who wrote that-assuming you can in fact read.

You are correct. I apologize. My scathing remarks should have been directed at you AND firmbizzle.