Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Thread Closed 
B10 : Expansion on backburner
Author Message
PGPirate Offline
Regulator
*

Posts: 10,574
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 262
I Root For: East Carolina
Location:
Post: #41
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-11-2009 01:02 AM)OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:  The question for the Big East is that they have 16 teams. These schools can't just bring football. Big East has no room for ECU, UCF, or Memphis. Notre Dame will never put football in the Big East. There is no way BE can go over 16 in basketball. No school will voluntarly walk away from that money. The best options are Army and Navy putting football in the Big East. They can provide attendance and have the budgets to make it work.

Except Army and Navy said they don't want to be in the BE, due to the inability to field a BCS team.
05-11-2009 10:19 AM
Find all posts by this user
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #42
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
That's all we need, more mediocre football programs to drag us down. We need the military academies like we need a hole in the head...

Of course, Navy could forget about having a winning season, or a bowl bid, if they joined, and Army hasn't been relevant since WWII. Great choices guys...
05-11-2009 10:32 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
KNIGHTTIME Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,511
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 308
I Root For: '17 Natty Champ
Location:
Post: #43
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-11-2009 08:30 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  Many stated something very similar when Big East Hoops use to have 14 teams and almost everyone said 5-6 years ago "No way will this conf ever have more than 14 basketball teams in it".

Well...we know how accurate those statements turned out to be.

Going over 16 teams would be way too much! It would also push the balance of power to the football schools. It will not happen unless there is a split.

Status quo for at least 5 years. I would think UCF would demand an all-sports invite and would not accept football only. That is my gut feeling.
05-12-2009 04:40 PM
Find all posts by this user
Krocker Krapp Offline
Number 1 Starter
*

Posts: 4,701
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 55
I Root For: RU, SJU, UConn
Location: Worldwide
Post: #44
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
Big 10 expansion and Nebraska
by MilCardFan
May 26, 2009 8:21 PM CDT

Hello Cornhusker nation! Over at the Ohio State SB website We Will Always Have Tempe, we've got a pretty good discussion going on about Big 10 expansion, and a dark horse candidate I've mentioned is Nebraska. I'm just wondering what you guys think of that idea. I realize it's not even on the horizon, or a possibility, but just idle speculation and something to ruminate about while we await the beginning of the 2009 season. So, with that in mind, please enjoy (or fume and rip me, lol):

I’ve enjoyed reading the possibilities of who might become the mythical 12th team if the Big 10 were to, you know, jump into the 21st century and all, so I want to make my case for Nebraska. I talked about my vision for realignment in an earlier post, and although the consensus seems to be that Notre Dame would be the logical fit, that doesn’t necessarily make it so. At face value, getting an independent team to join a conference would seem to be easier than luring a team to leave one BCS conference for another, but there are a few things that make Nebraska a prime target of opportunity, if the Big 10 thinks outside of the box.

Benefits for the Conference:

It’s freaking Nebraska, one of the most storied programs in college football, with rich tradition and history. I’m all about living in the now, but there’s nothing wrong with respecting the past and honoring tradition. It’s one of the things that make college football so special. And Nebraska, with the Blackshirts, Tom Osborne, four national championships, and a rabid fan base every bit as passionate as what you’ll find in Columbus, fits the bill perfectly. As for living in the now, they went through their own ‘Rich Rodriguez era’ with Bill Callahan, and have gone through the fire and come out on the other side with Bo Pelini (OSU alum, BTW), who guided them to a 10-4 record and a New Year’s Day Gator Bowl win over Clemson.

And oh by the way, the wrestling program is top notch, and would add to the Big 10’s dominance in that sport. As far as basketball goes, it’s a mid-level program that last made an NCAA tournament appearance in 1998, but is consistently competitive. Those would be nice additions to the conference, but make no mistake that if this overture were made it would be to attract the football program.

Monetarily, it’s a boon for both the conference and the school. You add Nebraska to the Big 10, and the Big 10 Network gets another look from cable companies currently fighting about where to place them in their lineup, and you add an entire swath of the Midwest to the coverage area. It means conference championship game, it means playing later in the season, and all that adds up to is money. Nebraska in the Big 10 means more games on ESPN and ABC, as opposed to the Fox Sports Network, which helps national exposure and recruiting for the school and the conference. Quick, name the last time you saw Nebraska on TV, other than a bowl game?

Drawbacks for the conference:

I can see the criticism coming fast and furious from all corners of the sports world, except maybe Fox…and the Big XII. I can see Herbie, Corso, and Fowler lamenting that the Big 10 looked backward, not forward, in looking towards a new conference member; that the conference looked at a team based on past accomplishments, and not future capabilities, and that’s been the problem with the Big 10 for the last 10 years or so. But if they’re adding a 12th team for a conference championship, they are looking forward, are they not?

Academically, they would rank last in the Big 10 in the US News and World Report list of top colleges. The top school, Northwestern, is ranked 12th. The lowest ranked school is Iowa, ranked 66. Nebraska? Um, well…89. Granted, it’s not Ivy League, but if the Big 10 wanted a 12th team to dominate the NCAA Intramural Chess Championships, they’d call MIT. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that draws as well as football.

Will it Happen?


It’s a longshot, but not out of the realm of possibility.

A great point was brought up when looking at Missouri that a move from the Big XII to the Big 10 would be a lateral one at best. For Missouri, I agree. They have their rivalry with Kansas, and that’s a rivalry as intense as OSU-UM and as old as Minnesota-Wisconsin. We just don’t know or care about it because it’s a rivalry we didn’t grow up around to appreciate. Missouri won’t leave the Big 12 for that reason alone. Nebraska, on the other hand, really has no loyalties or ties to the Big XII, because their rivalry died with the Big 8. You could make an argument for Nebraska-Missouri, but is it really a rivalry if one team has won only six times since 1975? You want to jump up and down and say Nebraska-Oklahoma, but that rivalry became all but forgotten when the Big 8 and SWC merged and the new Big XII placed them in separate divisions. But it was, arguably, the greatest rivalry in college football for a generation, right up there with the 10 Year War. The winner of the Nebraska-Oklahoma game almost always won the Big 8, and was on the short list for national championship talk, much like the OSU-UM game. When the Big XII was formed, the thinking at the time could have been to put them in separate divisions because they’ll play each other every year in the conference championship, but how has that worked out? Well, Texas has eclipsed Nebraska as Oklahoma’s arch rival, and Nebraska’s is…no one. (As an aside, I think this is the primary example of why Ohio State and Michigan MUST stay in the same division if the conference does expand).

If you add Nebraska and you split the conference geographically, I would put Nebraska in the Great Plains (west) division with Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Illinois. At first glance, Iowa jumps out as a natural, geographic rival which could easily supplant Missouri, and Wisconsin, along with the Hawkeyes, seem like the teams they will perennially contend with for the division crown. While I doubt that will rise to the level of the old Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry, it's a start. And if they do align them in a division with OSU and/or Michigan, boom! Instant rivalry.

The last thing I want to look at is the dynamics of the Big XII as it stands today. Remember, the Big XII merged the Big 8 (midwest/northern schools) with four Texas schools from the Southwest Conference, and it was more a marriage of convenience that allowed them to go toe to toe with the SEC. Old SWC member Arkansas bolted in 1990 for the SEC, and shortly after the SEC began their conference championship game. The peace has been kept in the Big XII by rotating the conference championship game between the midwest (KC and St Louis) and Texas. When the conference was formed, the headquarters took the old Big 8 office buildings and stayed in Kansas City, because most of the teams are closer geographically to KC. In the last several years, the conference has taken a decidedly southern tack, with the conference headquarters moving to Dallas, and now there is a move afoot to relocate the conference championship game in Jerry Jones’ new billion dollar playground…in Texas. This does not sit well with the football fans in Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, or Colorado. The olive branch compromise that’s being floated is that if the football championship moves to Texas permanently, the basketball championship will move to Kansas City permanently. That might soothe Kansas and Missouri fans, but Nebraska fans? Basketball is nice filler between the bowl game and spring practice in Lincoln, and football has been and always will be king, which makes this plan unpopular in Cornhusker land. Nebraska carried the torch for the Big XII in the early days, and now they seem to be an afterthought to the Texas teams and to Oklahoma.

On the surface Nebraska is ‘gettable’, and outside of Notre Dame this would be the best solution for the Big 10’s 12th team conundrum.

This article appeared on the Corn Nation website on Tuesday, May 26, 2009.
05-31-2009 11:00 AM
Find all posts by this user
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,918
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1003
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #45
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
Reading through the article.

Of course it is back-burner at this point.
1. The economy right now wouldn't support Emperor Disney upping the TV dollars enough to make it a home-run today. If there were clear signs the recession is over, it would make sense. Optimistic projection is late this year. Mid-range projection is once the Christmas sales figures come in, we will see its over. Pessimist says 1st or 2nd quarter of 2010.
2. The Big 10 can't add a team prior to 2012 without making a mess of the schedule cycle. That means no need to announce a team until sometime between March 31, 2010 and June 30, 2011 depending on the target school (if one exists) current affiliation.

Paterno's we disappear argument isn't about expansion, its about ending schedules at Thanksgiving. Pac-10 doesn't have a title game yet they play games on the first Saturday in December.

As to expansion, Delany broached the idea a year ago as the remedy for low cable penetration of the Big 10 Net.

Delaney is also correct that if you look at league title games, the SEC is the only one that has been a consistent success drawing viewers and the ticket buying public. His situation is further complicated in that venue is an even bigger problem for the Big 10 than the other leagues unless you are willing to shoot the dice on the weather for the first Saturday in December. To play indoors, you are left with Indianapolis or Detroit and it is unlikely that there is much in the way of local sponsor dollars available in Detroit. Additionally, the loser of the SEC Championship and Big XII Championship is normally a poor bowl draw unless placed in a game relatively close to the team's home venue. For the Big 10 that is essentially impossible unless you want to drop them all the way down to play the MAC champion or runner-up in Detroit.

I think it is more likely than not that the Big 10 will expand but we are a year away if it is going to happen.
05-31-2009 07:22 PM
Find all posts by this user
ohio1317 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 5,681
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 358
I Root For: Ohio State
Location:
Post: #46
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
There is also the problem that the Big Ten would likely have fewer 2nd BCS teams which is another hit to the bottom line.

(05-31-2009 07:22 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  1. The economy right now wouldn't support Emperor Disney upping the TV dollars enough to make it a home-run today. If there were clear signs the recession is over, it would make sense. Optimistic projection is late this year. Mid-range projection is once the Christmas sales figures come in, we will see its over. Pessimist says 1st or 2nd quarter of 2010.

The pessimists for the economy put recovery at long after 1st or 2nd quarter next year (and unfortunately they tend to also be the ones who were saying this crisis was coming in the first place while the MSM was saying all was fine and housing prices would never come down).
05-31-2009 07:55 PM
Find all posts by this user
Bearcats#1 Offline
Ad nauseam King
*

Posts: 45,310
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 1224
I Root For: Pony94
Location: In your head.
Post: #47
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-11-2009 10:32 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That's all we need, more mediocre football programs to drag us down. We need the military academies like we need a hole in the head...

Of course, Navy could forget about having a winning season, or a bowl bid, if they joined, and Army hasn't been relevant since WWII. Great choices guys...

spot on
05-31-2009 08:06 PM
Find all posts by this user
KnightLight Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,664
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 700
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #48
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-11-2009 10:32 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That's all we need, more mediocre football programs to drag us down. We need the military academies like we need a hole in the head...

Of course, Navy could forget about having a winning season, or a bowl bid, if they joined, and Army hasn't been relevant since WWII. Great choices guys...

Why would you say that?

Just over the last 3 years...Navy has...

2006: beaten UCONN

2007: beaten Pitt

2008: beaten Rutgers

heck...didn't Navy beat West Virginia in their last match-up?

Navy could probably be a .500 or better team in the Big East...and might even help attract even better athletes to the Academy.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2009 08:59 PM by KnightLight.)
05-31-2009 08:58 PM
Find all posts by this user
Cubanbull Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,617
Joined: May 2002
Reputation: 392
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #49
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
navy is NOT interested.
05-31-2009 09:04 PM
Find all posts by this user
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #50
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
Navy isn't interested because they'd become irrelevant, despite what ignorant CUSA fans say...
05-31-2009 09:07 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
egoboss407 Offline
Banned

Posts: 340
Joined: May 2009
I Root For: free speech
Location:
Post: #51
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
ignorant CUSA fans.
05-31-2009 09:09 PM
Find all posts by this user
PGPirate Offline
Regulator
*

Posts: 10,574
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation: 262
I Root For: East Carolina
Location:
Post: #52
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
ignorant CUSA fans.
05-31-2009 09:24 PM
Find all posts by this user
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,918
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 1003
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #53
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-31-2009 07:55 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  There is also the problem that the Big Ten would likely have fewer 2nd BCS teams which is another hit to the bottom line.

The second team is only worth about $4 million, by the time you pay the travel expense for that team it works out per team to probably less than they spend on the Athletic Department Christmas party every year.
06-01-2009 09:17 AM
Find all posts by this user
KnightLight Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,664
Joined: Sep 2003
Reputation: 700
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #54
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-31-2009 09:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Navy isn't interested because they'd become irrelevant, despite what ignorant CUSA fans say...

I know...it sucks when others post facts.
06-01-2009 03:42 PM
Find all posts by this user
egoboss407 Offline
Banned

Posts: 340
Joined: May 2009
I Root For: free speech
Location:
Post: #55
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
There hunting CUSA fans Knight.
06-01-2009 03:54 PM
Find all posts by this user
gosports1 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,863
Joined: Sep 2008
Reputation: 155
I Root For: providence
Location:
Post: #56
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-31-2009 08:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(05-11-2009 10:32 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That's all we need, more mediocre football programs to drag us down. We need the military academies like we need a hole in the head...

Of course, Navy could forget about having a winning season, or a bowl bid, if they joined, and Army hasn't been relevant since WWII. Great choices guys...

Why would you say that?

Just over the last 3 years...Navy has...

2006: beaten UCONN

2007: beaten Pitt

2008: beaten Rutgers

heck...didn't Navy beat West Virginia in their last match-up?

Navy could probably be a .500 or better team in the Big East...and might even help attract even better athletes to the Academy.

They've beaten Notre Dame and have been to a couple of bowls recently as well. Of course they've also won the CIC! 05-stirthepot
06-01-2009 04:11 PM
Find all posts by this user
CatsClaw Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,170
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 185
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location: The land of Winning
Post: #57
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(05-31-2009 08:58 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(05-11-2009 10:32 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  That's all we need, more mediocre football programs to drag us down. We need the military academies like we need a hole in the head...

Of course, Navy could forget about having a winning season, or a bowl bid, if they joined, and Army hasn't been relevant since WWII. Great choices guys...

Why would you say that?

Just over the last 3 years...Navy has...

2006: beaten UCONN

2007: beaten Pitt

2008: beaten Rutgers

heck...didn't Navy beat West Virginia in their last match-up?

Navy could probably be a .500 or better team in the Big East...and might even help attract even better athletes to the Academy.

Using your logic many of the Sun Belt teams could win C-USA since they have handled C-USA schools over the last 3 years. Sun Belt > C-USA
06-01-2009 05:22 PM
Find all posts by this user
CatsClaw Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 22,170
Joined: Dec 2005
Reputation: 185
I Root For: Cincinnati
Location: The land of Winning
Post: #58
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(06-01-2009 03:42 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(05-31-2009 09:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Navy isn't interested because they'd become irrelevant, despite what ignorant CUSA fans say...

I know...it sucks when others post facts.

I know. It sucks even worse when your facts are used against you. I wonder what the C-USA fans think about my "facts" in this thread.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2009 05:24 PM by CatsClaw.)
06-01-2009 05:23 PM
Find all posts by this user
Krocker Krapp Offline
Number 1 Starter
*

Posts: 4,701
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 55
I Root For: RU, SJU, UConn
Location: Worldwide
Post: #59
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
Best choice for a 12th Big Ten member? How about the University of Missouri?
by Bob Wechsler
Monday June 01, 2009, 6:00 AM

Joe Paterno talked about it last week at the Holiday Inn Conference Center in Fogelsville -- adding a 12th member to the Big Ten would not only give the conference a football playoff, but it would also help recruiting.

It's not up to Paterno or any other coach or athletic director in the conference, however. The Big Ten is foremost an academic alliance. The school presidents are the ones who brought in Penn State as the 11th member, and they're the ones who ultimately will approve or reject expansion.

(Actually, the University of Chicago is the 12th member of the Big Ten -- it maintains its academic ties despite de-emphasis of its athletic programs in 1939.)

So here's a look at possible targets if the Big Ten Conference does elect to expand. We're ignoring Notre Dame, which already has rejected one invitation and probably will never want to share its football TV revenue with 11 other schools.

BEST BET

Missouri. There's a natural rivalry with border states Iowa and Illinois, and the addition of Missouri would lure the St. Louis and, to a lesser extent, the Kansas City television markets. Academically. Missouri also is a good fit, and the school has some of the best athletic facilities in the Big 12. There's always rumors of infighting among Big 12 members, with Texas and Texas A&M reportedly holding unofficial talks recently with the Atlantic Coast Conference. If those two schools would leave, Missouri might jump at a chance to join the Big Ten.

THE USUAL SUSPECTS

Rutgers. The Scarlet Knights would give eastern-most member Penn State a natural rivalry, and Rutgers is right up there academically with the current members. One drawback is the Scarlet Knights' 41,500-seat stadium. Approval for more construction might be impossible to obtain because of cost overruns from the last expansion. The Knights also need three or four more years of continued success to show they're not a flash in the pan in football.

Syracuse. No way Syracuse leaves Big East basketball, and its football stadium is unacceptable by Big Ten size standards. The upstate New York TV market would not be attractive to the Big Ten TV Network (something the school presidents didn't have to consider when they invited Penn State to join). Syracuse only has eight men's and 12 women's sports -- way below that of most Big Ten members. The Orange don't even have a baseball team.

Pittsburgh. The Panthers play in an off-campus stadium they can't fill, and the Big Ten already has a strong TV presence in western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. This is Steelers country.

West Virginia. My favorite of the four athletically, and its academics have vastly improved in the last decade. But the Mountaineers are not located near a major TV market.

LONGSHOTS

Maryland. The Terps probably won't break their long-time rivalries in the Atlantic Coast Conference, but the Big Ten would love to add the Baltimore-Washington TV market. Another good fit academically.

Boston College. The nation's seventh-largest TV market would be the prize for adding BC. However, the Eagles are just getting settled in the ACC. Boston College also is a private school, and all Big Ten universities with the exception of Northwestern are public research-oriented institutions.

OUTSIDE THE BOX

Texas. Sure, travel for minor sports would be expensive, and the Longhorns would probably win the next 25 Big Ten baseball championships. But this is a great fit academically, and if Texas is unhappy in the Big 12, this pick would shake things up.

WAY, WAY OUTSIDE THE BOX

University of Toronto. Don't laugh. This is a research-oriented university with an enrollment of 50,000 undergraduates and 11,000 graduate students. The school has 23 men's and 23 women's sports, although Toronto would have no competition for the Big Ten figure skating, mountain biking and curling championships. And there's a small problem of learning to play four-down football on a 100-yard field. But think of the TV draw, where everyone from Halifax to Whitehorse would tune in to see how the Canadian school would fare against its neighbors "down below."

This article appeared in the Lehigh Valley Express-Times on Monday, June 1, 2009.
06-06-2009 03:40 PM
Find all posts by this user
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #60
RE: B10 : Expansion on backburner
(06-01-2009 05:23 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(06-01-2009 03:42 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(05-31-2009 09:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Navy isn't interested because they'd become irrelevant, despite what ignorant CUSA fans say...
I know...it sucks when others post facts.
I know. It sucks even worse when your facts are used against you. I wonder what the C-USA fans think about my "facts" in this thread.
Sh!t happens. It also rolls downhill, so it pays quit hanging around the bottom of the hill...
06-06-2009 05:15 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.