(01-13-2010 09:04 PM)jh Wrote:  What makes Obama not black? If, and I actually agree with this, black isn't a culture, what characteristics are you using to exclude him from the "black" grouping? And if black isn't a culture, why are you going back to sociology? What does him being raised differently than many, or most, blacks have to do with whether or not he is black? Are all blacks raised in affluent northern suburbs also not black?

Does this make him black?

(01-13-2010 09:38 PM)Rebel Wrote:  No, Obama isn't black. He may have black in him, but he doesn't have a damn thing in common with black people in the South. I do. Only thing I don't, is I'm not black. Everything else, we're the same. Now, why don't you tell me what I mean by that? Keep in mind, black isn't a culture anymore than white is a culture.

I rarely know what you mean. I think that's probably because you rarely know what you mean. You just spout off these angry little rants. But dog gone it, I'm going to keep trying.

He has a number of things in common with black people in the south. For one, he's black.

You claim that black isn't a culture but since most blacks are southern they are part of the southern culture, just as whites who live in the south are. And I would agree, Obama isn't southern. I'm not aware of anyone claiming that he was. But what does him not being southern have to do with him not being black?

You claim that whites & blacks in the south are essentially the same (I'm not sure southern race relations are quite as idyllic as you claim, but that's neither here nor there), yet you are still somehow able to distinguish between white & black southerners. What is it that differentiates white from black southerners?

Names like Bob and Alice vs. Jamal and Shaniqua.

(01-13-2010 10:48 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Names like Bob and Alice vs. Jamal and Shaniqua.

Wouldn't that make Barack a black guy then?




*I guess I should probably spell his name right.

That might make him a bullfrog.

buuuuuurock, buuuuuurock, buuuuuurock

Hey jh, I've always wanted to ask this but figured I'd get tagged real bad by the PC police, but now seems to be the appropriate time to ask.

New Yorkers have an identifiable accent as do people from Boston, the South, Wisconsin, etc. Why is it that some black people, regardless of where they're raised, frequently speak the same? Why do they sometimes misspeak, like saying axe when trying to say ask, or dropping the "s" off of any monetary number ending in cents? A guy I work with, who really is a racist, says it's because of a lazy mouth - I don't believe him. Do you know?

(01-13-2010 10:30 PM)jh Wrote:  He has a number of things in common with black people in the south. For one, he's black.

Spoken like someone who is a true racist. Do they all look alike too? All blacks supposed to think alike? I guess you think there's a "black dialect" as well? Funny, I can take you to my buddy Steve's house in Utica, Ms. and we sound the same. Hey, maybe I AM black.

You don't understand what you just said, do you? Let me help you out, "blacks are all the same".

Quote:You claim that black isn't a culture but since most blacks are southern they are part of the southern culture, just as whites who live in the south are. And I would agree, Obama isn't southern. I'm not aware of anyone claiming that he was. But what does him not being southern have to do with him not being black?

No, black isn't a culture. Black is a race. Tell me, you think the white Brits have anything in common with the whites in Seattle? Sure, they're both white, but WTF do they have in common? Same culture? Wow, ok, how? Maybe you need to break out a dictionary and look at the definition of "culture".

Quote:You claim that whites & blacks in the south are essentially the same (I'm not sure southern race relations are quite as idyllic as you claim, but that's neither here nor there), yet you are still somehow able to distinguish between white & black southerners. What is it that differentiates white from black southerners?

Race relations in the south are fine, with the exception of towns and cities that are ran by Democrats. I live in a diverse neighborhood in Evans, Ga. Homes run about 400K-2 Mil, and Columbia County is ran by conservatives. We don't have time for the racist BS. We're all trying to work and provide for our families. Blacks out here don't dwell on who's fault it is that they aren't where they should be because of some evil whitey. Blacks out here work their asses off and I'm happy to call them neighbors.

You wanna see racism, look at your own party. Oh, you're an L? BS.

(01-13-2010 11:10 PM)Rebel Wrote:  No, black isn't a culture. Black is a race.

I'll ignore the rest of the drivel in you post & focus on this one little line.

So how exactly isn't Barack Obama black?

(01-13-2010 11:23 PM)jh Wrote:  

(01-13-2010 11:10 PM)Rebel Wrote:  No, black isn't a culture. Black is a race.

I'll ignore the rest of the drivel in you post & focus on this one little line.

So how exactly isn't Barack Obama black?

Me saying "he isn't black" is me judging him based on my own personal experience. Of course he's black. He just has not a damn thing in common with MOST blacks.

Now, tell me how I'm wrong. I'd love to hear this. Afterall, you insinuated all blacks are essentially the same.

(01-13-2010 07:17 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Probably being tea-bagged.

You still sound bitter. Oklahoma football?

Let me ask you this, jh. Nomad, black guy from the South. Lived in Canadia, sure, but from the South. In the service. Likes the South. Is somewhat of an independent conservative, socially moderate. Same thing I am. Do I have more in common with him? Or with a cracker like RobertN? After all, I'm white so we're supposed to be exactly the same, right?

Race be damned. Race means not a damn thing and it shouldn't. Didn't Dr. King preach against that BS anyway? So why in the **** are we still talking about it? ....I know, I'll let you figure it out on your own.

One more thing, since our pu--sy politicians are too damn afraid to talk about race, I welcome the discussion. It's about f'n time. I have so much **** to throw up in the Democrats' face it ain't even funny.

(01-13-2010 11:24 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(01-13-2010 11:23 PM)jh Wrote:  

(01-13-2010 11:10 PM)Rebel Wrote:  No, black isn't a culture. Black is a race.

I'll ignore the rest of the drivel in you post & focus on this one little line.

So how exactly isn't Barack Obama black?

Me saying "he isn't black" is me judging him based on my own personal experience. Of course he's black. He just has not a damn thing in common with MOST blacks.

Now, tell me how I'm wrong. I'd love to hear this. Afterall, you insinuated all blacks are essentially the same.

I never insinuated that blacks are all the same. I said that being black is one thing all blacks have in common. In fact, I would say it's about the only thing that all blacks have in common.

Your stated premise is that Obama is not like the blacks that you know so somehow he isn't black (even though you admit that he clearly is - you see how I get confused). You are the one saying that there is a certain way blacks must be in order to be black, not me.

You want to know some other things that Obama has in common with other blacks? He's an American. He's a lawyer. He's articulate. He comes from a broken home. He's multi-racial. He's a Democrat. He's well educated. He did drugs while he was growing up. He's married. He's a father. And guess what, these are all things he has in common with white people too. Not as groups, but as individuals.

To answer your later post, I would not be at all surprised if you have more in common with Nomad than RobertN. I'm not the one that claimed that a person's race defined how they must act.

But I also wouldn't be at all surprised if, were you both to drop your internet personas, you and RobertN would find you have more in common than you thought. Not because you are white, but because you are persons (people/humans - I can't decide what sounds right there).

Ann Coulter: "Democrats regularly say things that would end the career of any conservative who said them. And still, blacks give 90 percent of their votes to the Democrats."

"Reid apologized to President Obama, and Obama accepted the apology using his 'white voice.' So now all is forgiven.

"Bill Clinton also called Obama to apologize, but ended up asking him to bring everybody some coffee.

"Now the only people waiting for an apology are the American people who want an apology from Nevada for giving us Harry Reid."


----------------------------------------------------

Harry Reid's Negro problem

by Ann Coulter 2010
Posted: January 13, 2010 5:58 pm Eastern

(01-13-2010 11:54 PM)jh Wrote:  Your stated premise is that Obama is not like the blacks that you know so somehow he isn't black (even though you admit that he clearly is - you see how I get confused). You are the one saying that there is a certain way blacks must be in order to be black, not me.

...and where on Earth did you deduct that from any post I've made? I said that "most" blacks in this country live in the South. I.e., most blacks in this country are/were raised in a southern culture. I didn't say a damn thing about the ones in the north. I have more in common with blacks in the south than I do whites in the north (trust me on this, I was in the Army for 8 years and served with people from Figi to Maine). I do not, however, have ANYTHING in common with Obama. As for him having "black" as the one thing he has in common with them, who the hell cares? Does being a certain race really mean a damn thing? Seriously?

Quote:You want to know some other things that Obama has in common with other blacks? He's an American. He's a lawyer. He's articulate. He comes from a broken home. He's multi-racial. He's a Democrat. He's well educated. He did drugs while he was growing up. He's married. He's a father. And guess what, these are all things he has in common with white people too. Not as groups, but as individuals.

Yes, all of those commonalities can easily be used for what he has in common with whites. The things you described aren't inherently "black". Again, black isn't a culture. It's a race and, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean a damn thing anymore than being white means a damn thing. Being "proud to be black" or "proud to be white" doesn't mean a damn thing either. You're born that way. If that's all you identify yourself with, you're lacking a lot of substance. I don't identify myself as white, I identify myself as an American southerner. Not a damn thing I can do about my muttness (German, Irish, Scottish, Cherokee), so it would be asinine to be proud of something of which I had no control.

Quote:To answer your later post, I would not be at all surprised if you have more in common with Nomad than RobertN. I'm not the one that claimed that a person's race defined how they must act.

That plant slug has more in common with Robert than I do.

Quote:But I also wouldn't be at all surprised if, were you both to drop your internet personas, you and RobertN would find you have more in common than you thought. Not because you are white, but because you are persons (people/humans - I can't decide what sounds right there).

Not hardly. I have no internet persona. What I say here, I say in public. I've met many people from the internet in real life and all will tell you I'm the same way.

...but I'm glad this discussion is continuing. It's high time this issue be addressed and we stop tapdancing around the f'n tulips while the issue continues to remain unresolved. This is why Jackson and Sharton are so financially successful. They feed this "black culture" BS in an attempt to divide the races. I.e. they get filthy rich by telling their congregations that all of their woes are due to whitey, while said congregation continues to regress.

This is good.

Rebel, I don't disagree with much of what you say when you are talking about race in general. As I have already stated, I agree that black is a race and not a culture (though racial categories are arbitrary and ill defined, at least in the scientific sense). I do believe that there are differences between the black pride movement and the white pride movenment, related mostly to their historical roots (would the civil rights movement have suceeded without the black pride movement?) but those differences are rapidly fading with time & progress.

I also disagree with your grouping of all southerners together. Not because you grouped whites and blacks together but because you grouped people, of all racial & ethnic backrounds, with vastly different cultures & experiences. I guarentee there are black northerners that you have more in common than some southerners. I reject all forms of collectivism. But this really isn't a big deal and people, myself included, talk this way all the time. In general, at the higher order level, we have many more agreements than disagreements.

You contradict yourself and our real disagreement begins, however, when you move from the group to the individual level and start talking about Obama. When you talk about Obama you talk about blacks as a cultural/sociological, not racial, grouping.

You categorically stated that Obama wasn't black (several times). When I asked you why he wasn't black you asked me to explain why he was. You talked about how most blacks were southerners & Obama had nothing in common with southerners (which I disagree with, see below). I said that would mean that Obama wasn't southern, not that he isn't black. You continued to insist that Obama isn't "black" in some meaningful sense (even as you claim the concept of race to be meaningless). If black is just a race, and not a culture, none of this makes any sense.

You are excluding him from the black grouping, not me. That means you must have some criteria to do so. Since it is clearly not racial (you yourself stated that he is racially black), it must be by some cultural/sociological factor. You must have some thing in mind that blacks are supposed to do/be/etc. that Obama doesn't/isn't/etc. that excludes him (in your opinion) from being black. This is why you are saying, even if you don't mean to, that there is a certain way that blacks must be in order to be "black."

You have also stated several times that Obama has nothing in common with blacks, or at least the southern blacks that you know. Even this statement is collectivist in nature. Not all blacks are southerners, and not all southern blacks are the same. I gave you a partial list of a number of things, several of them important things, that Obama has in common with southern blacks (as well as whites). Because Obama is an individual, just like southern blacks are individuals (not a group), just like northern whites are individuals. And all individuals have a lot in common. You responded that these things are not inherently black, which was kind of the point, so I guess that was your way of agreeing with me?