Ok, maybe I'm missing something...

Starting today, grass clippings have to be put in biodegradable bags or you can be fined thousands.

According to Ch 2, standard bags cost $0.25. These clippings bags cost $0.80 and will save the city $1.5mm/yr.

So 50 cents per bag... at least one bag a week... $26/home/yr the break-even point is less than 58,000 homes. I suspect we're really talking about hundreds of thousands of homes, no?? and that is at one bag/week. Seems we're spending a big multiple of what we are saving... or more accurately, creating a new tax.... and profits for a small number of companies (the bags carry the city logo)

While I generally support the concept of using bio bags for bio items, it seems that there is a business here who should be willing to spend a few million to get hundreds of thousands of bags of bio-fuel rather than having consumers pay for it at a time when we are already struggling.

Seems like poor timing and poor financial planning to me.

Anyone know more about this??

I'm surprised the expected savings are so low. I'm guessing that only considers continued use at current levels. I would assume they're also pushing composting/mulching/leave behind a good deal more to go along with the bags. If that takes, there might be additional savings in pickup trips. (Also, it sounds like they won't fine you if you put it in the wrong bag, they'll just not pick it up; they'll fine you if you put it in a regular container to hide it.)

That said, I don't know much about this issue of green bags. Austin charges customers who put their grass clippings in plastic bags extra (as they do for any additional plastic bags beyond the contents of your city issued bin). Instead they require that you use the brown paper bags OR put your loose lawn waste in a trash can like we used to use for everything else before the city issued bins.

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/sws/residenti...mmings.htm

What irritates me most about this is the implication from all the reporting that our yard waste has been going to landfills all these years. Why the hell did I use separate bags for my yard waste and bundle up branches etc. if it was going the same place as my regular garbage? I had assumed that they were mulching the stuff or composting or something. Plus these new bags are so delicate that unless you're disposing of rose petals, they're torn to shreds by the time you fill it up.

(04-05-2010 09:49 AM)texd Wrote:  I'm surprised the expected savings are so low. I'm guessing that only considers continued use at current levels. I would assume they're also pushing composting/mulching/leave behind a good deal more to go along with the bags. If that takes, there might be additional savings in pickup trips. (Also, it sounds like they won't fine you if you put it in the wrong bag, they'll just not pick it up; they'll fine you if you put it in a regular container to hide it.)

That said, I don't know much about this issue of green bags. Austin charges customers who put their grass clippings in plastic bags extra (as they do for any additional plastic bags beyond the contents of your city issued bin). Instead they require that you use the brown paper bags OR put your loose lawn waste in a trash can like we used to use for everything else before the city issued bins.

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/sws/residenti...mmings.htm

Why would they assume continued use at current levels if the alternatives are punished? I'd be fine with the container idea (re-useable, likely from recycled materials anyway) and the brown paper bags... less so, but still better than an 80 cent bag.

I don't care about the 80 cents... most people will simply pay a few dollars more for their lawn service... but things like this add up... and there certainly are people for whom a few dollars a month matters... and we're turning them into criminals.

(04-05-2010 09:05 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Ok, maybe I'm missing something...

Starting today, grass clippings have to be put in biodegradable bags or you can be fined thousands.

According to Ch 2, standard bags cost $0.25. These clippings bags cost $0.80 and will save the city $1.5mm/yr.

So 50 cents per bag... at least one bag a week... $26/home/yr the break-even point is less than 58,000 homes. I suspect we're really talking about hundreds of thousands of homes, no?? and that is at one bag/week. Seems we're spending a big multiple of what we are saving... or more accurately, creating a new tax.... and profits for a small number of companies (the bags carry the city logo)

While I generally support the concept of using bio bags for bio items, it seems that there is a business here who should be willing to spend a few million to get hundreds of thousands of bags of bio-fuel rather than having consumers pay for it at a time when we are already struggling.

Seems like poor timing and poor financial planning to me.

Anyone know more about this??

My understanding is that the $1.5 mm isn't the savings from using compostable bags, but rather the savings from "diverted" yard waste due to the new ordinance ("diverted"' either due to people composting or the city not picking up disallowed plastic bags). So those savings are simply due to less stuff to ending up in landfill.

In other words, the city is trying to get more people to leave their grass clippings on their lawn rather than bagging them, by making bagging more troublesome/expensive.

I haven't seen anyone estimate the direct benefits of compostable bags (that is, the benefits that accrue from the waste breaking down in the landfill rather than being sealed in a container that's good for 100 yrs +).

But this is the bureaucrat's way. Instead of really finding a solution, just make it more expensive/inconvenient for the citizens. Who pay your salary.

Exactly. There are ways to accomplish the same thing with a better use of funds. either a greater savings or a lower oop cost to the consumer.

I HATE it when beauracrats transfer a cost from the city (funded by tax revenues) to the consumers (funded on TOP of tax revenues) and then call it a cost savings

ITS AN ADDITIONAL TAX/FEE

I don't blame her honor as I suspect this was done LONG before her election, but its the sort of thing she should look at... and I LIKE Mayor White

I don't think it's entirely about simply making it more expensive. Presumably the green-bagged lawn clippings will not go to the landfill, but rather to a composting facility.

Austin actually sells its composted yard waste.

I tried reading the ordinance this morning but the city of Houston web site was down - not a good omen there.

In my (suburban) neighborhood, well more than 50 pct. of the yards are maintained by outside lawn crews (who consist primarily of Hispanic workers). I can't guess as to the pct. of crews in city limits, but I would imagine that these crews definitely need to be informed of the new law. Since in many cases, they don't speak or read English, I wonder if the ordinance is posted in Spanish as well?

Since my crew hasn't raised its prices in years, I'd gladly pay them a bit extra each week if it helps them go green in some small way.

(04-05-2010 10:42 PM)texd Wrote:  I don't think it's entirely about simply making it more expensive. Presumably the green-bagged lawn clippings will not go to the landfill, but rather to a composting facility.

Austin actually sells its composted yard waste.

I get that Tex, and FULLY support that... but for the (using napkin math) $10mm in increased costs to the consumer, even minus the 1.5mm to the city and the business benefit (I note that selling the yard waste isn't yet part of the plan, but I believe I actually mentioned that as something they should have considered.... I'd think a business would be happy to supply the bags for free to get the compost/bio-fuel) I believe we could have/should have gotten more for our money. If you sold the bio-fuel, you could subsidize the bags and/or provide plastic refuse containers and/or clean up more of the existing waste.

Bottom line... MOST of the money consumers are paying is going to go to the bag makers... and we're leaving sources of revenue that could be used to further this idea on the shelf. Bottom line... if it works in Austin (selling the fuel), why don't we do it in Houston?

Around here the 30 gallon "Home Depot" paper bags for "compostable lawn waste" have been mandatory for a few years. It costs $2.00 for 5 bags.

Of course, my wooded "Back Yard" is over an acre and its cheaper for me to haul fifteen or so loads of leaf/wood/clippings in the back of my truck covered with a tarp and dump them for free at the local "mulching station" as opposed to buying $70.00 worth of bags to be hauled off from the curbside.

My walk behind mower mulches so I do not have to worry about clippings. I do have some clippings when I have a garden tractor so I will dump clippings in a corner of the yard where they rot or I can run the walk behind mower over the grass clippings to mulch them down.

I will usually take branches out to my father's acreage in the country where I can dump them in a low spot to rot. It would be nice to have a power mulcher for the branches but that is outside my budget. One can be rented for the day but it is also expensive. I live in Angleton which is not subject to the bag rule so I can also take branches out to the curb for the garbagemen to pick up.

This thread has made me very thankful that I don't live within the confines of a city.

(04-08-2010 01:05 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  This thread has made me very thankful that I don't live within the confines of a city.

+1

During our last drought my water bill climbed to record levels. I did some research and have learned that if you compost you can condition your soil such that, even during droughts you won't have to water. I built an enormous compost bin behind the garage (6'x6'x6'). I use a "man-powered" mower - the blades on a horizontal spindle - and rake the clippings post-mow. (I rake clippings to control the amount of grass the kids and dog drag into the house.) Between grass clippings and the leaves from two very mature oaks in the front yard, I had to build a second, equally large compost heap. My yard care tactics are very "green", although that is not my end goal. I do enjoy never having to fill gas cans, being able to mow when the kids are napping without fear of waking them, and not having to haul bags to the curb. Plus, I get an extra few hours every weekend of man work which helps delay the visible indications of a penchant for cold beer!
I haven't been composting long enough to turn off the sprinklers but I'm looking forward to it. And if the city/county keeps it up someone may make a lot of money in the "green" yard care business...maybe me!

do you turn your compost pile? did you build something in that allows you to do so? 6 feet is awful deep...

(04-12-2010 02:32 PM)kinderowl Wrote:  do you turn your compost pile? did you build something in that allows you to do so? 6 feet is awful deep...

A neighbor of mine has a "compost tumbler"-- its a horizontal metal cylinder 5 feet long by 4 feet wide with a hatch on top that you pour the clippings in, close it, and every week or so give it a few turns with a geared crank. There is a large door on the side for removing the compost.

Sorry Kinder for the delay. Yeah, I turn the pile by dumping the compost material onto the ground in front of the compost heap, mixing it around and then shoveling it back in.
I stayed away from the tumblers because they can be expensive and they're designed more for flowerbed-volume composting rather than whole yard.
Of course, I'm no compost expert but I pretend fairly well.

no wonder you're still in good shape. that's labor intensive!

These can be purchased and delivered in the Houston area in Bulk ( 200 per case ) for much less than retail.


http://whittco-llc.com/catalog/30/commer...olumeusers