OptimisticOwl
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RE: Poetic Justice?
(05-31-2010 07:20 AM)WMD Owl Wrote: (05-30-2010 07:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: (05-30-2010 10:44 AM)WMD Owl Wrote: (05-29-2010 04:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: What we don't want to do is send 10 million back to Mexico. Think it through.
Mexico can barely keep a lid on things now. How long before they're looking at anarchy?
So then we have an anarchy on our southern border, with 10 million who are angry at us for expelling them.
Now, given the current state of world affairs, how long before some terrorist organization makes contact with angry expelled aliens?
And how long after that before somebody lobs a SCUD into downtown Phoenix, or LA, or San Antonio?
Think about it. That's a seriously real scenario. And not one we want.
No matter how bad the problem, the national security issues are easier to control with them here than there. Same for the economic issues. Think it through.
If Mexico had a stable society that could absorb them, it might be a different story. But if Mexico had a stable society that could absorb them, it would have a stable society that they wouldn't have needed to leave in the first place.
I think its just a matter of time before Mexico falls apart- even if we didn't deport the illegals back to Mexico.
And once it reeally states getting nasty within the interior, you will have another wave of Mexicans coming across the border- this time with legit claims of being a refugee or seeking asylum.
I also don't think its a coincidence that there is a move to build an interstate highway extension from Fort Bliss east to Fort Benning, through Fort Hood, Fort Polk, etc.
What do you think we should be doing now?
What do you think we should do when mexico falls apart, if indeed it does? Should we do the border patrols, fences, and strict enforcement that many want now? Let everyone in who wants in?
I spent 28 years running a business that imported various mexican products. I must have made 300-400 trips to mexico in that time, none of them to tourist destinations - small towns in the mountains or desert, mostly. One place I did business with had a phone number of 2. That's a small town. I loved my visits to mexico, the people I met, the places I saw, the experiences I had, but I would be scared now to go back to the same places as 15 years ago. When my cousins are afraid, that tells me all I need to know. They are right there, they know what is going on. I remember a simpler time, when my mother and grandmother would take us across the river weekly to shop. Things change.
As for "now" there are two things that we should have been doing yesterday, and that is on the "demand" side.
To stop the economic aspects of illegal immigration, you need to strictly enforce the laws prohibiting the hiring of illegal immigrants. The first time a couple of small business owners, say a roofing or landscaping contractor, gets sentenced to 24 months in a Federal Detention Center for hiring illegal immigrants, I promise you that anyone that doesn't have a verifiable Social Security Number will be "out of work" the next day.
As far as the drug smuggling, which is at the core of the Mexican violence, if there wasn't an American "demand" for the crap, there wouldn't be a problem in Mexico. For all of Obama's Health "reform" one thing that he left out was substance abuse treatment. You have to break the drug cycle some way. Decriminalizing possession of small amounts isn't the answer, because you still have addicts.
Of course, if you shut off the economic contribution of Mexicans in the US sending back money, you shut off a sizable part of the Mexican economy, causing domestic unrest.
But you know the internal situation better than anyone posting in here. Is there any way you can realistically purge corruption from the Mexican government? Half the Mexican government is fighting the cartels, and the other half is being paid by the cartels.
The worst thing that could happen is if there is a terrorist attack in the US and its discovered that the terrorists crossed illegally into the US from Mexico. That will cause a backlash and cause the problem to escalate out of control.
I think the employers could be handled with fines, no need to send people to prison. maybe for a third offense.
As for the drug smuggling, we have have been trying unsuccessfully for many decades to reduce/control the demand, with little success. I wood decrimilize marijuana, but not the harder drugs. But crime pays, and pays well, and I don't know what we can do about that.
I would not shut off the transfer of $$$ to family memebers. What i would do is develop a guest worker system. Issue permits to mexicans who qualify. How do you qualify? First you have to come through Immigration legally, you have to register and get a SSN, you have to file tax returns while you are here to maintain the GW status. I think something like this is set up, but largely ignored by the powers that be. It needs to be expanded and enforced. A GW should have a maximum of 5 years, after which he needs to either be applying for US citizenship, Resident alien status, or heading home. For illegals currently in the US, they would have a 90 day period to apply for a legal status - Resident Akien, GW, student visa, whatever - and at the end those that don't get right with the law get deported. A fair chance to set things right, not taken, loses them the benefit of the doubt. lastly, for those trying to enter illegally from now on, enforce the laws.
I doubt I am the best authority here. If so, we are woefully lacking in knowledge. It has been 15 years since I was actively invovled in Mexico. My opinion is that corruprtion is deeply embedded in the government, but there are many honest officals and policemen. These are the ones dying in the streets. I honestly can't blame a lot of the officials. Given a choice between handfuls of money and death for you and maybe your family, which would you choose? Big carrot, bigger stick. The corrupt ones seek office so that they can get payoffs,, sometimes buying their positions. Also, there is corruption of different kinds. I never had to pay off a top government official, but minor functionaries often expect a "tip", without which your life gets more complicated.
I have been expecting a terrorist attack from people smuggled in through the southern border, maybe using materials smuggled in via the same paths. So far, Thank God, it hasn't happened. If it ever does, there will be a change of attitude. Until then, we just have to worry about what might be, what might happen.
BTW, I had to have my "papers" with me when I was in Mexico. OTOH, I never had to show them.
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2010 01:17 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
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