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If ECU can bring all of NC
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whitey Offline
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If ECU can bring all of NC
Tidewater (Va) and Northern SC TVs to the BEN. Would we be worth having us in the BE?
11-13-2010 01:01 PM
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Ring of Black Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
That's a BIG IF Whitey. But, yes. I would add ECU - YESTERDAY - if that was the case.
11-13-2010 01:57 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Can someone close to the situation explain why the Big East doesn't have any interest in ECU because I can't find anyone that can explain why ECU is persona non grata in the Big East's eyes other then their basketball progam
11-13-2010 02:04 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...
11-13-2010 02:30 PM
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Capital Pirate Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 02:04 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  Can someone close to the situation explain why the Big East doesn't have any interest in ECU

CC, don't be so sure that it doesn't.....04-cheers
11-13-2010 02:50 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Hmmmm. An article coming out says that TCU is probably coming so if ECU is the #2 option and they're added I'll be ecstatic!
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 02:58 PM by CatsClaw.)
11-13-2010 02:56 PM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 04:09 PM by Bill Marsh.)
11-13-2010 04:08 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.
11-13-2010 04:10 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
GMTA, CC... 04-cheers
11-13-2010 04:14 PM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:10 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.
11-13-2010 04:27 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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Post: #11
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Quote:If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?
11-13-2010 04:36 PM
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Bill Marsh Offline
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Post: #12
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:36 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
Quote:If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?

Nope. I said nothing about Cincinnati.

What I'm telling you is that the state is saturated with too many programs all competing for the state's fans. You want to have 5 BCS programs in a state half the size of Florida & 40% the size of Texas - both of which have only 4 BCS programs despite being football crazy states. It ain't going to happen & no one at the Big East is going to invest in a program in that state that hasn't yet proven that it can compete at this level. If ECU had the level of success of TCU, Utah, Boise State, or Louisville (pre-BE), it would be a different story.
11-13-2010 04:44 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do.
Both UNC and NC State are long time members of a major college conference. ECU doesn't have that luxury of history. Who's to say what they could do with BCS membership. They already have more fans in attendance of their home games than any other candidate...

Another thing people seem to forget is that bringing ECU into The BEast would give us a TV broadcast footprint in the heart of ACC country. That exposure helps the conference in recruiting and perception. It's easy to knock what you never get to see...
11-13-2010 04:48 PM
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chess Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:10 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.

ECU does not need to draw fans away from NCSU or UNC. ECU is large enough and has enough graduates to continue to build their own program.

ECU's success will have nothing to do with whether Duke and Wake can build their own programs. ECU's success has nothing to do with whether UNC or NCSU can build their own fans. North Carolina is large enough with enough students to support ALL these schools.

The market has spoken. Tobacco Road can support our programs.
11-13-2010 04:52 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Exactly, people were saying the same thing, that Cincinnati couldn't draw fans because Ohio State was in the area and we would have to convert some of their fans. OSU's attendance hasn't changed and Cincinnati's attendance increased by 15,000 per game, or in that neighborhood. That tells me that a lot of new fans joined Cincinnati's fan base. ECU is doing that now in a non-BCS conference.
11-13-2010 04:58 PM
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whitey Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:44 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:36 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
Quote:If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

Obviously you're wrong because Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina, NC State, and East Carolina pumped huge money into their football programs in hopes of grabbing a fanbase that wanted to root for football. And they were proven right with the huge crowds these schools are suddenly getting. It's possible to be a one sport state/town but want something else. Cincinnati is a baseball town but they desperately wanted a quality NFL football team to root for again. So you're telling me that a baseball town like Cincinnati doesn't desperately want to have football as well?

Nope. I said nothing about Cincinnati.

What I'm telling you is that the state is saturated with too many programs all competing for the state's fans. You want to have 5 BCS programs in a state half the size of Florida & 40% the size of Texas - both of which have only 4 BCS programs despite being football crazy states. It ain't going to happen & no one at the Big East is going to invest in a program in that state that hasn't yet proven that it can compete at this level. If ECU had the level of success of TCU, Utah, Boise State, or Louisville (pre-BE), it would be a different story.

Before you state what you don't know. CC is right. NC wants a to root for a successful FB team. NCst & Unc-ch are basketball schools & for years never could get the FB going. We have added 7000 seat & they're sold the minute they were put in. If WE get AQ & we would take the FB fans over night. You would be surprised at how many ppl in this State hates NCst & Unc but they are from up north or they are military & have their home school they pull for. Do you know we do control eastern NC in football especially the military population. We have 2 million ppl within 1 1/2 hrs from us, equal to most cities. Duke & Wake can't even get their fans to go to a FB game. ECU sale the third most FB merchandise in the State. Also this opens up recruiting for BE teams in a pretty strong recruiting base, Va, NC & northern SC. Trust me there are more pluses than minuse, choosing us.
11-13-2010 05:29 PM
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oasispirate Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:10 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 04:08 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-13-2010 02:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I don't know, CC. I guess buck's animosity for ECU has spread to the majority. I have always felt ECU would do well in The BEast. They are a football school, with a football mentality, in a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for...

" . . . a basketball state that really wants a football team to root for."

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I'm not getting your point.

His point is that it's a basketball state that desperately wants football success. Kentucky is a perfect example. It's a basketball state that saw football taking off so they wanted at least one football program to be a success and represent their state so once Kentucky and Louisville started finding success the football fanbase grew.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.


Don't buy those attendance stats you posted, Duke's football attendance is horrible and WF's isn't much better. When it comes to football in the state of NC, ECU is the CLEARCUT #3 behind UNC and NCSU in terms of interest.
11-13-2010 05:32 PM
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piratefan1975 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Bill, you just don't understand North Carolina.

If they're truly a basketball state, then they don't desperately want football.

I just don't even know where to begin with this statement.

The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

What??? UNC is averaging 57,375; NCSU 56,820. We're averaging 49,776. So UNC draws 15% more than us and NCSU 14%, compare that to other expansion candidates and BCS schools in their respective states. We're the second largest and fastest growing university in North Carolina. We're going to fill our stadium on saturdays, even if UNC and NCSU are playing at home the same day.


And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.

Good for them!!! The three of them combined got 30,000 more than we did.

When a state of 9 million already has 4 BCS programs in the same state & one of the top FCS programs in that same state as well, they're saturated with college football programs & it's not the ideal location to sign on one more program. The level of saturation may be the very reason why UNC & State haven't been able to break through & be more successful than they have.

I think it's a GREAT place to sign on one more program. We have as big of a fan base and beat the BCS teams in our state with some degree of regularity. We fill our stadium while playing a CUSA schedule. The "level of saturation" argument just doesn't hold water.

It's not as if those two haven't been trying. The idea that another school can be successful where UNC & State haven't been simply because that other school operates on a different campus defies logic. There's nothing special about ECU that puts them in a unique position to succeed where others have failed. They've achieved some success in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level.

How can you cite UNC and NCSU's lack of success in the ACC as a tool to extrapolate from that, the theory that ECU would never be successful in the Big East? Am I missing something?

Then to say, "They've acheived some succes in CUSA competing against other schools like themselves, but that's a whole different ball game from competing at the next level." Wow, I can say the same thing about any of the other expansion candidates except TCU. I welcome you to compare our record of success against BCS competition against any of the other candidates, TCU excluded. It doesn't matter. We've been told time and time again that on-the-field success does not matter. It's all about the number of TV sets in a pre-defined "market."
11-13-2010 05:41 PM
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PirateNation Offline
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RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
(11-13-2010 04:27 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  The reason that ECU is in a difficult position in selling themselves to the Big East is that both UNC & NC State draw more fans than they do. Unless you believe that an ECU program that thrives in the BE is going to draw fans away from the other 2 major public universities in the state, you're going to see a ceiling on their market potential that isn't favorable for their candidacy.

And we can't simply ignore the fact that Wake Forest, Duke, & Appalachian State all compete in the same state. We can't act as if they don't exist. Those 3 combined for over 80,000 fans per game last year. They represent a significant drain on fan interest in the same state.
We sell out our stadium when the other two have home games on the same day. And about Wake and Duke.. Appalachian State now has a larger football fan-base than either of those.

Here is the attendance of 5 years ago and today. Our fan base has grown the most, while playing a Conference USA schedule.

2005 Attendance/ 2010 Attendance /(Difference)
NCSU-52,925 / 56,820 (+3,985)
UNC - 51,667 / 57,375 (+5,708)
ECU - 33,046 / 49,776 (+16,730)
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2010 05:45 PM by PirateNation.)
11-13-2010 05:41 PM
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oasispirate Offline
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Post: #20
RE: If ECU can bring all of NC
Also we have played the 45th toughest schedule (according to Sagarin) in the country this season. So it isn't as if the Big East would be this massive step up. I am sure if we were in the BE we would probably not schedule as many difficult non Conf opponents.

We are 6-4 in a rebuilding year with a damn good possibility of winning 7 & 8. If we were in the Big East our win over NCSU would likely be the marquee win for the league this season.
11-13-2010 05:42 PM
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