The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

(03-14-2011 09:10 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:26 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:14 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 12:39 AM)whitey Wrote:  Except for basketball, Pitt isn't much better than ECU and with all that BcS money. Don't mean to offend you.

So when did ECU last have a Heisman winner, or national championship team?

Easy there fella. While I don't believe in bashing program history when you really should keep you mouth shut, there isn't reason to bash back. By the way, ECU does have a national championship under its belt. Just not at the level we are currently at. The fact ECU wasn't at the 'FBS' level then is no fault of their own. With that said, I don't beleive Pitt and ECU are all that alike...but nor do I beleive Pitt has any reason to feel elitist towards teams like ECU. Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, etc...I can understand.

It wasn't a bash. I was asking a basic truth. BTW, FCS records don't cut it. This is about football at the highest level, and ECU hasn't come close to what Pitt has done at the highest level...

If you consider statements of fact bashing, then you've got a long miserable life ahead of you...

Wow, feeling a little irritable today bit? Your head banging 'smilie' is a message board way to show body language. In essence, it was bashing or condescending. Really no other way to take that IMO.

Your question gave no no stipulations on what level the national championship needed to be. When it comes down to facts, my answer was correct as the question was written. If you had stipulated levels (which you did after the fact), I wouldn't have responded. Doesn't look like my life has a long and miserable road ahead of me, huh? I'm not certain when ECU became 'FBS.' I probably should be ashamed for not knowing that...but I'd hedge my bets that Pitt's national championship came outside of the time that both schools were FBS, if not it was pretty darn close. Now, does that mean I think the two school's programs are comparable? Of course not. I said that before. Facts are facts.

(03-14-2011 09:25 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:10 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:26 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 08:14 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 12:39 AM)whitey Wrote:  Except for basketball, Pitt isn't much better than ECU and with all that BcS money. Don't mean to offend you.

So when did ECU last have a Heisman winner, or national championship team?

Easy there fella. While I don't believe in bashing program history when you really should keep you mouth shut, there isn't reason to bash back. By the way, ECU does have a national championship under its belt. Just not at the level we are currently at. The fact ECU wasn't at the 'FBS' level then is no fault of their own. With that said, I don't beleive Pitt and ECU are all that alike...but nor do I beleive Pitt has any reason to feel elitist towards teams like ECU. Texas, Florida, Notre Dame, etc...I can understand.

It wasn't a bash. I was asking a basic truth. BTW, FCS records don't cut it. This is about football at the highest level, and ECU hasn't come close to what Pitt has done at the highest level...

If you consider statements of fact bashing, then you've got a long miserable life ahead of you...

Wow, feeling a little irritable today bit? Your head banging 'smilie' is a message board way to show body language. In essence, it was bashing or condescending. Really no other way to take that IMO.

Your question gave no no stipulations on what level the national championship needed to be. When it comes down to facts, my answer was correct as the question was written. If you had stipulated levels (which you did after the fact), I wouldn't have responded. Doesn't look like my life has a long and miserable road ahead of me, huh? I'm not certain when ECU became 'FBS.' I probably should be ashamed for not knowing that...but I'd hedge my bets that Pitt's national championship came outside of the time that both schools were FBS, if not it was pretty darn close. Now, does that mean I think the two school's programs are comparable? Of course not. I said that before. Facts are facts.

We both became CFA at the same time when the bigger schools broke away, then D1-A & FBS at the same time. We beat Pitt when they were ranked at our last meeting. We have ended the season ranked 9th in the nation while as a independent. We have been ranked many times and true we have not won a NC. All without BcS money. We probably do more with less than most schools out there. No, I'm not saying we are equal but give us AQ money and we would become equal quick. I stated what I said because some of your fans feel like you are so much better than us, which isn't true.

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I agree with all of this. Any football expansion at all (even the addition of TCU) was really predicated on Villanova as part of it, so the extent that they aren't, it's not quite automatic that they're going to 10 teams if Nova doesn't move up (which I think is a moot point because I'm fairly certain that they're moving up).

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I think this is spot on as far as Houston vs UCF goes.

As far as stoping at 10 with Nova I'm not so sure. I think UCF or Houston get added now for 2012 and the other gets added when Nova moves up later.

Logic would say bring up UCF now since it has already made it's facilities upgrades and Houston is now where UCF was in 05 with their upgrades in the works. Then bring in Houston later with Nova once Houston has finish securing funding and began/finished their facilities upgrades.

Edited to stay on topic.

Was the UCF president invited to NYC last week by the Big East presidents?

(03-13-2011 01:51 PM)UHCougar07 Wrote:  ND and UH.

(03-14-2011 10:06 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I think this is spot on as far as Houston vs UCF goes. Genshaft is a real piece of work, I'm sure she'll get here way.

As far as stoping at 10 with Nova I'm not so sure. I think UCF or Houston get added now for 2012 and the other gets added when Nova moves up later.

Logic would say bring up UCF now since it has already made it's facilities upgrades and Houston is now where UCF was in 05 with their upgrades in the works. Then bring in Houston later with Nova once Houston has finish securing funding and began/finished their facilities upgrades.

Then again expansion is really about logic is it. Not when you have deranged, Pelosi like, President Gemshaft running around player cheerleader for here freind at Houston.

Geez dude
What's with the personal attacks?
Especially when there's absolutely no proof?

It's crap like this that shut down the other board.

(03-14-2011 10:13 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Was the UCF president invited to NYC last week by the Big East presidents?

If Houston's president was invited to NYC last week it could be:

* Good news for Houston
* Last ditch effort to add support by a voting block currently in the minority

(03-14-2011 10:18 AM)dogma Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 10:06 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I think this is spot on as far as Houston vs UCF goes. Genshaft is a real piece of work, I'm sure she'll get here way.

As far as stoping at 10 with Nova I'm not so sure. I think UCF or Houston get added now for 2012 and the other gets added when Nova moves up later.

Logic would say bring up UCF now since it has already made it's facilities upgrades and Houston is now where UCF was in 05 with their upgrades in the works. Then bring in Houston later with Nova once Houston has finish securing funding and began/finished their facilities upgrades.

Then again expansion is really about logic is it. Not when you have deranged, Pelosi like, President Gemshaft running around player cheerleader for here freind at Houston.

Geez dude
What's with the personal attacks?
Especially when there's absolutely no proof?

It's crap like this that shut down the other board.

In addition to some other things there have been a few times she has made remarks that were not at all friendly to faculty and staff at USF. Some of them were graduates from UCF.

(03-14-2011 10:18 AM)dogma Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 10:06 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I think this is spot on as far as Houston vs UCF goes. Genshaft is a real piece of work, I'm sure she'll get here way.

As far as stoping at 10 with Nova I'm not so sure. I think UCF or Houston get added now for 2012 and the other gets added when Nova moves up later.

Logic would say bring up UCF now since it has already made it's facilities upgrades and Houston is now where UCF was in 05 with their upgrades in the works. Then bring in Houston later with Nova once Houston has finish securing funding and began/finished their facilities upgrades.

Then again expansion is really about logic is it. Not when you have deranged, Pelosi like, President Gemshaft running around player cheerleader for here freind at Houston.

Geez dude
What's with the personal attacks?
Especially when there's absolutely no proof?

It's crap like this that shut down the other board.

I think the picture is becoming quite clear to the fellow.

(03-14-2011 10:25 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 10:18 AM)dogma Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 10:06 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I think this is spot on as far as Houston vs UCF goes. Genshaft is a real piece of work, I'm sure she'll get here way.

As far as stoping at 10 with Nova I'm not so sure. I think UCF or Houston get added now for 2012 and the other gets added when Nova moves up later.

Logic would say bring up UCF now since it has already made it's facilities upgrades and Houston is now where UCF was in 05 with their upgrades in the works. Then bring in Houston later with Nova once Houston has finish securing funding and began/finished their facilities upgrades.

Then again expansion is really about logic is it. Not when you have deranged, Pelosi like, President Gemshaft running around player cheerleader for here freind at Houston.

Geez dude
What's with the personal attacks?
Especially when there's absolutely no proof?

It's crap like this that shut down the other board.

In addition to some other things there have been a few times she has made remarks that were not at all friendly to faculty and staff at USF. Some of them were graduates from UCF.

UCF-ENG,
Are the upgrades you speak of for UCF only in relation to football and basketball? If not, then your statement is incorrect. UCF has a large facility upgrade plan ($60M?) for it's Olympic sports which has not happened yet. The funding will come mostly from donor support...which will never happen. Just too much money for a school like UCF. Those upgrades will either come after an AQ conference extends an invite or when the State of Florida gives a whole lot more money to UCF. The invite is mainly about football but the package one presents is about the overall University's athletic program.

Dogma,
As for the personal attack, check out any UCF message board. Personal attacks are common place...the rule, not the exception if you will. If you are a Big East fan and UCF gets in, just get used to it. It isn't going to change. There are very mature UCF message board fans. They just tend to be from a day well before UCF was D1A.

(03-14-2011 09:25 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  Wow, feeling a little irritable today bit? Your head banging 'smilie' is a message board way to show body language. In essence, it was bashing or condescending. Really no other way to take that IMO.

Your question gave no no stipulations on what level the national championship needed to be. When it comes down to facts, my answer was correct as the question was written. If you had stipulated levels (which you did after the fact), I wouldn't have responded. Doesn't look like my life has a long and miserable road ahead of me, huh? I'm not certain when ECU became 'FBS.' I probably should be ashamed for not knowing that...but I'd hedge my bets that Pitt's national championship came outside of the time that both schools were FBS, if not it was pretty darn close. Now, does that mean I think the two school's programs are comparable? Of course not. I said that before. Facts are facts.

ECU has a good football program. But to compare your football program to Pitt's like that, and think it comes out equal, shows complete homerism... :homer:

I like ECU. But between ECU and Pitt, it's not even close yet. ECU has been on the upswing, and Pitt's been down. But even when they're down, Pitt gets the edge on ECU...

(03-14-2011 10:54 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  ECU has a good football program. But to compare your football program to Pitt's like that, and think it comes out equal, shows complete homerism... :homer:

I wasn't comparing the football programs. You asked a specific question and I gave a specific answer. No homerisms. You seemed to imply ECU didn't play to the top of their level the way Pitt had. I just showed otherwise. Both of those national championships are irrelevant in today's grand scheme of things. Probably only the last 20 years or so shows where a program is and is going. Even being on the edge of that time frame, ECU finishing the season ranked #9 in the country is not relevant anymore.

(03-14-2011 10:54 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I like ECU. But between ECU and Pitt, it's not even close yet. ECU has been on the upswing, and Pitt's been down. But even when they're down, Pitt gets the edge on ECU...

I agree somewhat. It's closer than you give credit. Not as close as some want to believe though. I do agree that Pitt gets the edge even when they are down. No argument there.

(03-13-2011 11:12 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  

(03-13-2011 10:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If in fact the BE expands to 12 FB playing members with UCF, Houston and ECU/Villanova AND the conference members are forced to play 9, 10 or 11 conference games, then

If this is the best the BE can do, then I'm going to hold out hope that Texas gets a huge case of West Coast Envy and we start up the superconference ride. I'm sorry to those fans who are offended, but what appears like the future of the BE is not hope for Pitt's FB future. I'd rather roll the dice with superconference mania and see what happens (with the hope that Pitt lands Big10 or ACC) than push on for this mess moving forward. I bet I'm not the only BE fans who feels this way.

How do you feel about only adding 1 school and visitng their 18,000 seat soccer stadium 20 miles out in the suburbs? More appetizing?

Not at all. I don't want Villanova either.

(03-14-2011 12:39 AM)whitey Wrote:  

(03-13-2011 10:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If in fact the BE expands to 12 FB playing members with UCF, Houston and ECU/Villanova AND the conference members are forced to play 9, 10 or 11 conference games, then

If this is the best the BE can do, then I'm going to hold out hope that Texas gets a huge case of West Coast Envy and we start up the superconference ride. I'm sorry to those fans who are offended, but what appears like the future of the BE is not hope for Pitt's FB future. I'd rather roll the dice with superconference mania and see what happens (with the hope that Pitt lands Big10 or ACC) than push on for this mess moving forward. I bet I'm not the only BE fans who feels this way.

Except for basketball, Pitt isn't much better than ECU and with all that BcS money. Don't mean to offend you.

Just because you state that both programs are equivalent does not make it fact. I don't care to see the BE take on a project(s) with the hopes that there will be a payoff in the end. TCU has a body of work and on the field accomplishments - like UL when Petrino was coach - to expect an immediate payoff for the conference. ECU, UCF, Houston and Villanova are all projects. Even when you consider UC and it's question marks in FB, at least they had a winning program in a revenue sport. ECU, UCF and Houston do not have a winner in the revenue sports. No network is going to increase the payout on a per team basis with the addition of one of those 3 said schools. Although Villanova is an existing member of the BE and pulls its weight in BB, I don't forsee their football prowess being anything close to competitive in the BE for quite some time. UCONN is at least a state school that can draw on the resources of Conn and the NE region to help build itself. Villanova does not have anything close to what UCONN had in order to help build itself up in FB.

These options are nothing but losing propositions for the BE. The sad part is that the BE is positioned to get a nice bump in the TV contract in the near future due all the hard work put in by the existing members plus the added carrot of adding TCU's home games into the mix, and in the end there will be one to three new members who will be receiving welfare as a result. To add insult to injury, I'll bet a few fans of the "lottery winning schools" will beat their chests and proclaim that their schools helped land this nice chunk of change for the conference...

Please let the superconference discussions begin again so that the more valuable members of the BE can have a fighting chance to land in a better conference.

(03-14-2011 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2011 09:21 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The basketball onlys won't vote for expansion that includes an 18th basketball playing member. Even some at UCONN have expressed the desire not to add to the basketball playing members of the conference. I would look for one of the following to happen:

1. Villanova says yes and expansion stops at 10 for the foreseeable future.
2. Villanova says no and the battle to get UCF in between the basketball onlys (along with USF) against the football playing schools (assuming all support UCF which isn't a given) begins.
3. USF proposes an alternative that they can support in Houston and the bargaining begins.

I would look for #1 to happen. If not #2 could well play out and Houston could end up in The Big East. Much in the same way politics kept Syracuse out of the ACC and got VaTech in.
CJ

I agree with all of this. Any football expansion at all (even the addition of TCU) was really predicated on Villanova as part of it, so the extent that they aren't, it's not quite automatic that they're going to 10 teams if Nova doesn't move up (which I think is a moot point because I'm fairly certain that they're moving up).

I agree with both of you but only to an extent.

It is becoming more and more obvious that the BE's negotiating strategy is going to entail two things:
1.) Tying its football rights to its mens (and probably womens) basketball rights.

2.) Adding inventory to the football lineup.

With those two factors in mind I think it is most likely that we will expand to 10 teams and stop there for now (particularly if Nova says accepts its invitation). However I also believe that expanding to 12 teams is MUCH more likely than staying at our current 9 team configuration.

Personally, given our current options, I'd prefer that we stick with nine teams and take things slowly from there. However it is becoming increasingly obvious that a nine team configuration has never been on the table - with or w/o Villanova.

(03-13-2011 11:12 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  

(03-13-2011 10:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  If in fact the BE expands to 12 FB playing members with UCF, Houston and ECU/Villanova AND the conference members are forced to play 9, 10 or 11 conference games, then

If this is the best the BE can do, then I'm going to hold out hope that Texas gets a huge case of West Coast Envy and we start up the superconference ride. I'm sorry to those fans who are offended, but what appears like the future of the BE is not hope for Pitt's FB future. I'd rather roll the dice with superconference mania and see what happens (with the hope that Pitt lands Big10 or ACC) than push on for this mess moving forward. I bet I'm not the only BE fans who feels this way.

How do you feel about only adding 1 school and visitng their 18,000 seat soccer stadium 20 miles out in the suburbs? More appetizing?

"their" as in the MLS teams soccer stadium that may have no desire to ever expand... "thei" stadium is on campus and regulary hosts 3,500-6,000 fans.

How do you feel about only adding 1 school and visitng their 18,000 seat soccer stadium 20 miles out in the suburbs? More appetizing?
[/quote]

"their" as in the MLS teams soccer stadium that may have no desire to ever expand... "thei" stadium is on campus and regulary hosts 3,500-6,000 fans.
[/quote]

Actually I've read that the Union would be very much in favor of a rapid expansion of PPL. Weren't they drawing more much more at the Linc? PPL seems to have been underbuilt from the start, and was built with easy expansion in mind (no need to re-foot). Also, it's a flawed analogy to compare their past FCS attendence in an ancient stadium, to what they might draw against FBS opponents in a brand new waterfront home. Lot of negativity about it (mainly from certain cities), but Nova upgrade could work out very well. Existing member, successful in FCS, large market, eliminates costly OOC game for everyone, no further division of BBall monies.

(03-14-2011 03:31 PM)Bull Wrote:  How do you feel about only adding 1 school and visitng their 18,000 seat soccer stadium 20 miles out in the suburbs? More appetizing?

"their" as in the MLS teams soccer stadium that may have no desire to ever expand... "thei" stadium is on campus and regulary hosts 3,500-6,000 fans.
[/quote]

Actually I've read that the Union would be very much in favor of a rapid expansion of PPL. Weren't they drawing more much more at the Linc? PPL seems to have been underbuilt from the start, and was built with easy expansion in mind (no need to re-foot). Also, it's a flawed analogy to compare their past FCS attendence in an ancient stadium, to what they might draw against FBS opponents in a brand new waterfront home. Lot of negativity about it (mainly from certain cities), but Nova upgrade could work out very well. Existing member, successful in FCS, large market, eliminates costly OOC game for everyone, no further division of BBall monies.
[/quote]

The only thing that has the BE conf (BB side) happy is that Villanova gives the conf a 10th member to "appease" the FB teams but maintains their precious status quo on the BB side.

That large market will continue to remain untapped because Philly only cares about BB when it comes to Villanova. Trying to say that Villanova will capture the CFB viewing fan around Philly is a joke.

Ding Ding Ding, the real reason that a few of the FB schools like Villanova (or anyone else for that matter) is because it fills up that extra slot so that certain schools can be lazy about filling out an OOC schedule. That is all that the 10th member matters as far as they are concerned.

So paragraph one and three is what cinches Villanova to be the 12th member. All the BB members care about is maintaining status quo, so Villanova is a gift for them. Add in the few FB schools who suck at making desirable OOC matchups consistently and the deed is done. This is a sad day if Villanova moves up to FBS status as a BE member.