Stephens was on one side of the argument. The Yankees were on the other side. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle...

(04-07-2011 01:30 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Stephens was on one side of the argument. The Yankees were on the other side. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle...

What argument? Both sides agreed on the cause of the war. Say it with me, "slavery".

The north knew it. The south knew it. I know it. The only person conflicted here is you.

Slavery wasn't the only issue, no matter how much you wish to make it so. Denying the right to vote to women, separating the natives living here from the protections under law, slavery, the buying and selling of votes, are just a few of the issues of the time. But slavery is the only one people remember, and the one you keep harping upon...

(04-07-2011 01:59 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Slavery wasn't the only issue, no matter how much you wish to make it so. Denying the right to vote to women, separating the natives living here from the protections under law, slavery, the buying and selling of votes, are just a few of the issues of the time. But slavery is the only one people remember, and the one you keep harping upon...

None of those others you mention had anything to do with the Civil War.

(04-07-2011 01:59 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Slavery wasn't the only issue, no matter how much you wish to make it so. Denying the right to vote to women, separating the natives living here from the protections under law, slavery, the buying and selling of votes, are just a few of the issues of the time. But slavery is the only one people remember, and the one you keep harping upon...

Okay, just for funsies, list the top 5 dominant reasons for the war, in order of the greatest impact on the decisions to the least. Feel free to include percentages.

Didn't you study history? You should be able to figure that out for yourself, Smaug...

But IMO all wars boil down to wealthy people with no scruples attempting to take what other people have at gunpoint because they feel it is their right to take what they want, and they dehumanize the other side by spreading disinformation to make the people more ready to fight. If you look at every war that has ever been, it all boils down to that one fact, whether people want to admit it or not...

The Civil War was over slavery. End of story.

(04-08-2011 12:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Didn't you study history? You should be able to figure that out for yourself, Smaug...

But IMO all wars boil down to wealthy people with no scruples attempting to take what other people have at gunpoint because they feel it is their right to take what they want, and they dehumanize the other side by spreading disinformation to make the people more ready to fight. If you look at every war that has ever been, it all boils down to that one fact, whether people want to admit it or not...

I know damn well what this war was about. You're the one obfuscating.

I'm the one that needs a history lesson? How 'bout the guy who thinks women's suffrage was a reason for the war? Hell, it was such a burning issue they got around to settling it 60 years later.

(04-08-2011 12:18 PM)TOGC Wrote:  The Civil War was over slavery. End of story.

And Iraq was simply over WMD's. Come on you are smarter than that. Think about it. Since when did our government ever care about the people and what we think? They didn't in 1861 and they don't today. Was slavery wrong, absolutely. Should it have ended, of course. To act however like the Northern States loved black folks and sent their sons to die to set them free is absurd.

Winston Churchill once said that "History is written by the victors." He didn't say anything about it being the truth. My point is I hope no one believes everything they read in history books.

As the grandson of a Cherokee from East Tennessee, I can tell you first hand about the lies our government. I welcome those that wish to be enlightened to read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee". It will change your perspective on who the good guys were when you played cowboys and indians as a youngster.
CJ

(04-16-2011 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(04-08-2011 12:18 PM)TOGC Wrote:  The Civil War was over slavery. End of story.

And Iraq was simply over WMD's. Come on you are smarter than that.

If you don't think the Civil War was about slavery, you're not very smart.

I can't deny that I have occasionally participated in these types of discussions before. But I swear, it is amazing the determination some people have to carry these arguments out day after day, week after week, month after months, year after year.

I'm curious if anyone can link to a specific post -- on this thread or any other -- where someone says, "Gee, I hadn't thought of it that way before. Maybe you're right." or words to that effect. I've read through a lot of posts here over the past 3 years and I cannot think of a single instance where anyone said that sort of thing.