(04-18-2011 03:59 PM)Stookey57 Wrote:  the bottom line is this, we got a big time fb school that finished ranked 2 in the nation. if cfb was designed correctly there would be a +1 championship game in affect and tcu would play auburn for all the TEA IN CHINA. they would beat auburn imo also.

also uconn won the ncaa, so the beast is in a position of power to come close to what acc is getting period. `FRANK TANK try an help us to get more revenue....................

What would help the BE get more revenue more than any other factor is a legitimate bidding war. I've long been of the opinion that Turner getting involved has much more potential than Comcast/NBC.

Re: The Indiana discussion- - Kudos to Frank for being the most incredibly patient guy I've ever read on a message board.
P.S. We need animus to write something on page 3, so that his cheerleader photo can carry over... also one of the UCF guys with that blonde chick...

(04-18-2011 10:39 AM)mattsarz Wrote:  Making assumptions on the math using the numbers of $130m and $180m

Lets say 2/3 of this money is divided evenly over 17 schools. The other 1/3 is the football money.

130 / 3 = 43.3. 86.6 for everyone, 43.3 additional for football to be spread.

Schools not playing football in the conference would receive approximately $5m, football playing members would receive $9.8m in rights fees based on $130m.

If we wanted to get $180m, the split becomes $7m for those playing all sports but football in conference and football playing members would receive $13.3m.

$180m should be the target number, again based on my split of revenues. At $130m, football members are likely not going to make as much as the bottom tier of the Big 12 and still be behind the ACC.

At $130m, using these assumptions and football playing members only
Big East = $9.8m
ACC = $12.91m

Do you think the Big East money split will continue to be 2/3 basketball and 1/3 football or do you think that gap will be closing? Maybe something closer to 50-50.

(04-18-2011 01:39 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 01:32 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 01:22 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I keep pounding this point regarding TV sports rights: the true TV value of a school is how many people still pay attention when they're *terrible*, NOT when they're winning. Anyone will watch a national title contender no matter where they're from. The "special" schools are the ones that still get national TV coverage when they have a .250 winning percentage.

Would you mind listing those schools?

So far we have:

Notre Dame football
Texas football
Duke basketball

FOOTBALL
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska
Florida
Alabama
USC
Miami
Florida State

LSU and Tennessee are also in that conversation.

BASKETBALL
UNC
Duke
Kentucky
Kansas
UCLA
Indiana

Let me emphasize that I don't believe that those are the *best* 5 basketball programs today (as I'm sure I'll get a lot of "Where's Syracuse and UConn?!" comments), but they have decades of fan base support and tradition where they are the "Big 5" for TV purposes.

I will agree with every school you listed but IU....10 yrs ago, sure...but honestly, not right now. THey are not relevent in hoops and have not been for a very long time save one miracle final four run in the middle of their fall to nothingness.....

and I know they draw well,...I'm talking about national relevence. IU is not relevent nationally and has not been for a long time. Honestly, they started to die when they fired Knight.

(04-18-2011 10:58 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 10:45 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Wonder what a ten team football/bball conference could get?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that wasn't being explored, as well as a few other possible options...

Not by the Providence Mafia, there is an inherent conflict of interest.
Securing a top dollar bid from ESPN, for the football split scenario only,
could damage the basketball schools and the Mafia doesn't want to do that.

(04-18-2011 04:05 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 03:33 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  I think the BE has always preferred ESPN as the media rights holder for the league yet some within have always felt they have shortchanged the league.

In the past, ESPN always took care of the Big East. I beleive the BE deal was the first one wher eESPN agreed to televise ALL iinventory for a conference. But then once they did a similar deal with the SEC, and took on more Big Ten games, the Big East got pushed to the wayside.

Ad, I respect you as a poster, but ESPN hasn't done right by the league since the 1980s.

Now obviously I blame the BE admins as well, but anyone who believes ESPN has taken care of the Big East, imho, must think this :rolltide: is being taken care of.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-18-2011 04:29 PM)Frog People Wrote:  Do you think the Big East money split will continue to be 2/3 basketball and 1/3 football or do you think that gap will be closing? Maybe something closer to 50-50.

I doubt it. Perception-wise, the BB side of the conference is stronger than ever. Most broadcasters would likely value it in that manner.

Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

(04-18-2011 04:42 PM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

Since 2006 the football schools have more then held their own. The only marginal year was last year. WVU and UC were so close to making the BCS championship game. If coaches are getting hired away that is a testament to how well their teams did.

(04-18-2011 04:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:42 PM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

Since 2006 the football schools have more then held their own. The only marginal year was last year. WVU and UC were so close to making the BCS championship game. If coaches are getting hired away that is a testament to how well their teams did.

co-signed

(04-18-2011 02:13 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 01:47 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  I don't know how old you are Frank, but those schools are for old foggies especially basketball ones.

I'm 33, so I'm probably not quite in the old foggie category yet. Once again, I'm talking about the floor (NOT the ceiling). The whole point is that even when schools like UCLA and Indiana are horrible, they still get national TV slots. You may not personally watch them, but others still do. I know that a lot of sports culture is based on "What have you done for me lately?" short attention spans, but Indiana is going through literally the worst stretch in its history in the wake of the Kelvin Sampson disaster. Of course, when was the last time Indiana made it to the NCAA Tournament? Those ancient days of 2008. When was the last time they made it to the national title game? The prehistoric times of 2002.

And please trust me when I say that I LOATHE Indiana basketball (my blog's most popular posts prior to expansion mania were a series of writings equating Kelvin Sampson with Satan's Spawn that Deadspin linked to), so I'm not defending them out of some type of support.

I agree that there is clearly a distinguished "Big 6" in college basketball. I would like to point that during the 2006 season, ESPN was ragging on us pretty badly (and deservedly so). I remember one ESPN telecaster saying that "You can't spell Connecticut without NIT" after a loss to Pittsburgh.

Of course, we didn't even make the NIT that year! So people have paid attention to us when we have been down. As much as IU the past couple of years? Maybe not.

And don't insult Satan with that comparison.

(04-18-2011 04:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:42 PM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

Since 2006 the football schools have more then held their own. The only marginal year was last year. WVU and UC were so close to making the BCS championship game. If coaches are getting hired away that is a testament to how well their teams did.

In 2006 the Big East finished with 3 teams in the Top 15 and has yet to duplicate that feat. Not to mention 3 straight embarrassing BCS appearances. Since 2006 the only really good Big East tv rating was the 2009 UC-Pitt game. And all the top coaches leaving make the Big East look like a stepping stone conference where the best leave for higher profile jobs.

(04-18-2011 04:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:42 PM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

Since 2006 the football schools have more then held their own. The only marginal year was last year. WVU and UC were so close to making the BCS championship game. If coaches are getting hired away that is a testament to how well their teams did.

Numbers-wise, I believe that you're correct. In terms of national perception, though, it's very different. It's still an uphill battle because the BE doesn't get the benefit of the doubt in down years. Think of how many articles you saw this past year bashing BE football even though Cincinnati was a missed Texas field goal away from getting to the national championship game a year earlier. Whether it's fair or not, there's no margin for error for the BE (whereas the ACC has Miami, Florida State and Virginia Tech, which generally keeps that league afloat in terms of public perception at least in the sense that few people in the national media ever argue that they should lose their AQ status).

In contrast, most sports fans believe that the Big East is unequivocally the best BB conference. This is a big-time difference in terms of perception. TV sports rights tend to rely more on long-term public perception and fan bases as opposed to on-the-field/court records over a short period of time.

(04-18-2011 04:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 10:58 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 10:45 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Wonder what a ten team football/bball conference could get?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that wasn't being explored, as well as a few other possible options...

Not by the Providence Mafia, there is an inherent conflict of interest.
Securing a top dollar bid from ESPN, for the football split scenario only,
could damage the basketball schools and the Mafia doesn't want to do that.

Whether they'd want to or not, it would be malpractice for BE administration to be working to break up the conference, I know everyone likes to have their villain but what exactly has Marinatto and company done that hasn't been approved by the Big East Presidents.

(04-18-2011 05:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:51 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:42 PM)MichaelSavage Wrote:  Everyone wants to blame ESPN and Big East brass in Providence, yet aside from 2006 the new look Big East hasn't exactly helped itself when it comes to football. Teams have lost coaches and haven't adequately replaced them. Teams have managed to slip from the Top 10 to unranked or barely cracking the Top 25.

Since 2006 the football schools have more then held their own. The only marginal year was last year. WVU and UC were so close to making the BCS championship game. If coaches are getting hired away that is a testament to how well their teams did.

Numbers-wise, I believe that you're correct. In terms of national perception, though, it's very different. It's still an uphill battle because the BE doesn't get the benefit of the doubt in down years. Think of how many articles you saw this past year bashing BE football even though Cincinnati was a missed Texas field goal away from getting to the national championship game a year earlier. Whether it's fair or not, there's no margin for error for the BE (whereas the ACC has Miami, Florida State and Virginia Tech, which generally keeps that league afloat in terms of public perception at least in the sense that few people in the national media ever argue that they should lose their AQ status).

In contrast, most sports fans believe that the Big East is unequivocally the best BB conference. This is a big-time difference in terms of perception. TV sports rights tend to rely more on long-term public perception and fan bases as opposed to on-the-field/court records over a short period of time.

you are correct on all points here....spot on Frank

(04-18-2011 05:03 PM)bk1714 Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 04:37 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 10:58 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 10:45 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Wonder what a ten team football/bball conference could get?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that wasn't being explored, as well as a few other possible options...

Not by the Providence Mafia, there is an inherent conflict of interest.
Securing a top dollar bid from ESPN, for the football split scenario only,
could damage the basketball schools and the Mafia doesn't want to do that.

Whether they'd want to or not, it would be malpractice for BE administration to be working to break up the conference, I know everyone likes to have their villain but what exactly has Marinatto and company done that hasn't been approved by the Big East Presidents.

Of course, so nobody in an official capacity has negotiated on behalf of the Football split scenario. The original point.

We ARE working on two different contract and football does indeed run longer, so I'm wrong here:

http://www.villanova.com/sports/m-baskbl...06aab.html

Quote:The deal for football runs through the 2013 regular season. The current football contract still has two years remaining. The agreement for men's and women's basketball runs through the 2012-13 season. The current pact for basketball has one year remaining.

I thought that I had read that they synched up the end dates for both deals, but that's not the case and they aren't together in a single deal.

(04-18-2011 04:29 PM)Frog People Wrote:  Do you think the Big East money split will continue to be 2/3 basketball and 1/3 football or do you think that gap will be closing? Maybe something closer to 50-50.

I think it already is about 50/50. Though the Forbes article looks at all revenue including TV deal:

http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2011...l-revenue/

TEAM MBB REV FB REV FB / MBB RATIO
Notre Dame $4,051,468 $64,163,063 15.84
Rutgers $4,634,026 $19,494,261 4.21
South Florida $4,588,627 $16,562,391 3.61
Cincinnati $4,927,771 $13,325,304 2.7
West Virginia $13,306,654 $29,467,612 2.21
Connecticut $7,745,145 $14,400,371 1.86
Pittsburgh $13,117,849 $22,513,336 1.72
Syracuse $18,309,470 $19,152,691 1.05
Villanova $7,652,470 $5,228,231 0.68
Louisville $25,890,003 $15,537,276 0.6
Georgetown $10,074,618 $1,430,512 0.14
Marquette $13,877,475 N/A N/A
Providence $6,460,838 N/A N/A
DePaul $6,528,661 N/A N/A
Seton Hall $6,215,923 N/A N/A
St. John’s $6,741,298 N/A N/A


If you break it down

football schools earn $92.5 million from BB
Football schools earn $150.4 million from FB
basketball schools earn $61.6 million from BB

I did not include ND, Nova and Gtown FB earnings in any calculation.
By these figures the FB schools collectively earn four times what the BB schools earn. And 8 FB teams makes as much money from FB in the BE as 16 BB teams amde from BB.

(04-18-2011 02:43 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  LOL. Yep thi shuts up all those that kept talking about the demise of the Big East and how we would be lucky to get same numbers that we had.

Big East TV deal was going to DECLINE?

(04-18-2011 05:49 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(04-18-2011 02:43 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  LOL. Yep thi shuts up all those that kept talking about the demise of the Big East and how we would be lucky to get same numbers that we had.

Big East TV deal was going to DECLINE?

You might laugh but there were plenty of Big East bashers that had been saying that the Big East would be lucky to increase its TV revenues.
The facts are that these numbers show that the Big East could come out of this with numbers very close to the ACC and that its going to hurt all the Big East bashers. and some of them where fans of your school that love to play Jekyll and hyde when posting on this board and the CUSA board.