(05-17-2011 07:00 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-17-2011 04:35 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Might be crazy like a fox. Votto behind him ensures that pitchers will be coming right at him. Would not surprise me if he puts a couple balls in play hard at least.

Agreed. It's the same line of thinking that put Bruce there earlier in the year. He needed a boost to his confidence and getting a bunch of fastballs in front of Joey Votto can be a huge benefit.

It can't hurt to have your worst hitter in the lineup get the most protection.

The idea of protection as most fans think of it is a myth that is not backed up by fact.

They've got plenty of time to lock up Phillips. If they can't come to a long-term deal before next season, just exercise the club option for $12 million to give yourself more time. They'll find a way to get it done.

(05-17-2011 07:17 PM)50Cent Wrote:  Ok, then by your logic volquez should be batting second. You guys sound like larussa now. Best hitters bat early in lineup to get the most at bats. Typically your 1-2-3-4 hitters will bat an average of 4 times a game vs 3 times in 8 spot.

Two nice at bats so far.

Oh and Bruce and janish aren't the same offensive potential guys. Come on.

Ps it would be nice to have a guy who could get on in front of votto.

Janish has good bat control, some speed and is an intelligent hitter. That's the type of guy you want in that spot of the order.

Who said anything about Bruce and Janish being the same in terms of offensive potential? The point is you put people in front of Votto to get them more pitches to hit. When a player is struggling as Bruce was earlier in the year, moving him to the #2 slot allowed him to get more opportunities.

(05-17-2011 07:20 PM)Overrated Wrote:  The idea of protection as most fans think of it is a myth that is not backed up by fact.

If you don't think hitting in front of a guy like Pujols, Votto, etc. gets you better pitches to hit, I don't know what to tell you. It's obvious that those guys make hitters around them better.

(05-17-2011 07:33 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-17-2011 07:20 PM)Overrated Wrote:  The idea of protection as most fans think of it is a myth that is not backed up by fact.

If you don't think hitting in front of a guy like Pujols, Votto, etc. gets you better pitches to hit, I don't know what to tell you. It's obvious that those guys make hitters around them better.

They don't make the Paul janishes of the world two hitters that's for sure.

(05-17-2011 07:33 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-17-2011 07:20 PM)Overrated Wrote:  The idea of protection as most fans think of it is a myth that is not backed up by fact.

If you don't think hitting in front of a guy like Pujols, Votto, etc. gets you better pitches to hit, I don't know what to tell you. It's obvious that those guys make hitters around them better.

Quite simply, you are wrong and there have been studies to show as much. If you are "protected" in the order, you are less likely to be walked. But you performance as hitter does not improve if you are protected.

Volquez helps himself.

(05-17-2011 07:44 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Quite simply, you are wrong and there have been studies to show as much. If you are "protected" in the order, you are less likely to be walked. But you performance as hitter does not improve if you are protected.

Translation: You get more strikes and better pitches to hit.

(05-17-2011 07:44 PM)50Cent Wrote:  They don't make the Paul janishes of the world two hitters that's for sure.

The Reds don't have many options. Their best is currently knocking in runs behind Votto.

So which of these at bats for janish count as the at least two hard hit balls?....the weak grounder to second, the popped up bunt or the pop out to short?

Bad baseball move. Period. End of story. Not only that but the hot hitting Hernandez is stuck at 8th tonight where the weak hitting janish should have been.

(05-17-2011 08:06 PM)50Cent Wrote:  So which of these at bats for janish count as the at least two hard hit balls?....the weak grounder to second, the popped up bunt or the pop out to short?

Bad baseball move. Period. End of story. Not only that but the hot hitting Hernandez is stuck at 8th tonight where the weak hitting janish should have been.

Sweet, lets put Hernandez in the #2 hole! Good baseball move!

(05-17-2011 08:02 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(05-17-2011 07:44 PM)Overrated Wrote:  Quite simply, you are wrong and there have been studies to show as much. If you are "protected" in the order, you are less likely to be walked. But you performance as hitter does not improve if you are protected.

Translation: You get more strikes and better pitches to hit.

Players don't hit better when they are protected. They are walked less, but your "better pitches to hit" statement doesn't make sense.

If you were getting better pitches to hit, you would preform better. Since that is not the case, you conclusion simply doesn't make sense.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/articl...nd-batters

Here is the conclusion:

Quote:The Book Says: If a pitcher is trying to avoid pitching to a hitter, the hitter is significantly more likely to draw a walk, and moderately more likely to strike out. Specifically, a good, unprotected hitter in a good intentional walk situation is about 25% more likely to walk than the same hitter in a bad intentional walk situation, as well as about 10% more likely to strike out. Even an average hitter, with an average hitter on deck, is 20% more likely to draw the walk if the situation is a common one for intentional walks, and about 5% more likely to strike out. However, if the ball is hit into play, the pitcher's approach (pitching to him, versus pitching around him) has no significant effect on the hitter's statistics.

That article isn't focusing on the situation I described.

I've had it with guys who walk in runs. Good God, are these major leaguers??? Unbelievable.

(05-17-2011 08:51 PM)bearcatjim Wrote:  I've had it with guys who walk in runs. Good God, are these major leaguers??? Unbelievable.

It all starts with a poor play by Votto. I don't know what he was doing.

This has been a hard game to watch. Both teams look like they are playing out the string in late Seotember and they are out of contention.

Maybe it's just the weather. This is not good baseball.

It probably is the weather. The UC game was ugly as hell too.

Man the Reds have been fortunate with bad defense from their opponents the last 2 series, but it really makes you appreciate their team defense.

Votto's lackadaisical play was frustrating, but this team is pretty spectacular defensively. Phillips got Fukudome in the 9th even though the ump incorrectly called him safe. He made a great play earlier in the game as well. And Lewis also had a nice sliding catch.

And all of those felt pretty routine.

That game set back baseball decades. Neither team can bunt. Both teams mixed up times where they should have bunted. Missed cutoff men. 5 combined errors (should have been 6 on Votto's hideous play). Walking in runners. Balls being thrown around the infield like beer league softball (by the pitchers no less). Knothole dropped third strike plays. Both teams had guys swinging at bad 3-0 pitches. A ton of terrible ABs from normally very good hitters.

Just a strange game. I'll blame the crappy weather. But I strongly suspect its that the Cubs are fundamentally about the worst team I have seen in a long time and that they drag their opponents down into the muck.

Props to Dusty for giving Cordero a day off and letting Masset get a save. Shows he didn't worry about stats or using a veteran.