Concerning Conference Realignment - What if I were Ross Parmley?

Well, its according to how much he's willing to risk IMO. How much is the new President willing to get involved? Who is and really will be in control? We are either going to find out if we have leadership or just TU "occupiers" letting others make our decisions for us.

So what IF I were Ross? Here's what I'd think long and hard on doing. Taking along some pal's to the MWC.

Let's face it, UTEP will be gone shortly to the MWC. When they go, there will be a void in CUSA that only another Sunbelt team will fill (or perhaps one of similar "stature"). So IMO Ross should be retrocative and gather some of our friends from CUSA and exit ASAP before the commitment of staying in CUSA is written in stone and the higher exit fees are enacted.

Why don't we just get with our CUSA "friends" (some new) and make the MWC a deal of adding 4 more programs from CUSA. Most of the talk is now that Boise may come back to the MWC and if that happens, there will be (Hawaii, Fresno, San Jose, BSU, UNLV, Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, Colorado State, AF and NM). That leaves 5 teams to form the "golden number" of 16. Evidently the powers that be want 16 team conferences in the future for TV contracts and NCAA tourney fields. Well if that is true, it leaves 5 slots so to speak somewhere in this. If UTEP jumps to the west (and they'd be crazy not to IMO) it then leaves 4 slots open.

So IMO Ross should be retroactive and align us with the next 4 to go. The MWC needs the eastern press and viewers to make any TV contract viable. They also should not IMO leave out programs with great histories just for the sake of some ridiculous "TV market size" argument like we are expereincing with CUSA. And I'd say there needs to be a slight geographical consideration as well - its certainly a long way from ECU to Honnolulu (or Fresno for that matter). So why shouldn't Ross gather with a few of his friends in this general area and have some discussions about an eastern division of the Mountain West conference of strong teams that make a "block" of committed programs who will compete at the MWC level.

So who to "become" our friends? Well how about So Miss, NT and either Rice or Tulane or La Tech. That satisfies those that want a connection to the Dallas market and Texas and leaves either the Houston, New Orleans market or the stronger program in Ruston to tag along with strong So Miss.

TBH, when San Jose St came in, the MWC took a very weak program to prop up the TV market size in the conference. So that may be the direction they want to go, but lets also face the fact that TV markets do not a conference make. Rice and Tulane are our version of SJS. Ross needs to realize we have a solid athletic program that currently has a "crap league" (using Bill Selfs terminology). We don't need to align ourselves with programs that don't even have CFB as we know it, let alone one that can't compete. How long will that take? How about forever. After SMU's program was "discontinued" then restarted, how long did it take to become competitive again? Answer - decades. Can we afford to wait?

Question: Who did UTSA play in their first ever game last year? Northeastern State College in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. Thats a long way from competing at our level IMO. Nuff said.

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One last thing, if we want to schedule some of the Texas or Louisiana teams as a MWC member, simply approach UTSA, Texas State, or some others discussed that are in CUSA and get a series going in non-conference. Its as simple as that.

I can't quite get a handle on how this is all going to play out. Are the 64 schools going to form their own new athletic association, bye, bye NCAA, or are they going to try and work inside the NCAA. That is the first question to be answered????? If they do, there isn't much we can do about it, we won't be part of that.......you know OU and OSU aren't going to let us in the Big 12 and from a TV market point of view it would make absolutely no sense to the Big 12, they already have the state covered. Our best bet is "who is leftover" from the ACC and the nBE and the best of CUSA. I could see a 16 team ACC taking over both the leftover Big East, ACC and CUSA.......if we didn't get in that, then I agree, go west with the best of what's left and that would be better than what we have now......as a matter of fact the grouping you mentioned wouldn't be that bad at all.......actually pretty good. If the Big 64 do go out on their own, then we sure the heck would have a chance of playing for a NEW NCAA National Championship along with about 70 other NCAA schools that were left. We may end up in Conference with Duke before all is said and done!!!

Need some help......for the Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and Pac 10(12) to all get to 16 teams, altogether they would need to add 17 teams or is it 15.......that was my quick figuring, you know how easy it is to forget a team or two........but where are those 16 teams coming from. I could see 9 or 10 coming from the ACC, sorry Duke and Wake Forest. 2 or 3 from The Big East, throw in BYU and Notre Dame and you could be at 15........I guess if needed, Air Force and Navy could make 17 but it would be hard to believe Army could be left out. Anyway it could be done but how would the Big 10, SEC and Big 12 divide up the ACC. SEC could take Virgina Tech, NC State and North Carolina. The Big 10 could take Maryland, Virgina, Rutgers and Conn, and the Big 12 take Fla St, Clemson, Ga Tech, and Miami of Fla. What the Pac 10 does besides take BYU, I don't know......Notre Dame has to go some where but where??? Gets to be a little bit of a problem. Do you think the conferences will get together and divide the teams up......otherwise a cooperative attitude or will it be cut throat????

With the forming of the "so called" BCS, there is now a pecking order of conferences. We need to make the MWC (with TU and the others mentioned) equal to or greater than, say, the Big East. The BE has just become fodder for "robbery" like us. A team gets a strong program and "zoom" they are gone to the next highest conference if the market is big enough. Its unfair, but is reality in this crazy world of college sports.

But my contention for getting into the MWC is that there is infinitely more poltical power in that league. There are several "tier 1" schools in those states out west and the political pressure can be put on for some kind of inclusion that CUSA wouldn't have. Its really about prestige and political power. Look at Baylor as an example. They weren't even in the discussion of inclusion in the Big 12 originally until political pressure was put to bear. A small school like Rice, Tulane or TU with long histories have some prestige from the standpoint of academics that allows some inclusion into the sports world that, say a large state school like UTSA with 8 times the enrollment of commuter students wouldn't have and never will - at least for the forseeable future.

If you were the MWC and you knew you needed 4 or five schools to fill in the holes of a 16 team league, who would you approach. I don't think it would be a program that doesn't even have a D-I program per say or one that has few facilities that are up to par with the other schools.

CUSA is a conference that has become a bit of a joke and I don't want to be in that grouping of teams that ARE the punchline. Like I say, the Sunbelt would be a better option than what CUSA is becoming. Too bad.

This is my opine. It isn't everyones, but I think I speak for most of the TU fanbase - at least those who aren't in denial. But again, most of us saw this coming and we had some people who just let it happen.

I'm honestly concerned that the lack of competition along with no name opponents will hurt our recruiting and fan support.

What's more exciting for fans or prospects - seeing TU play Colorado St. or seeing TU play UTSA? Pretty obvious answer. Every TU fan i've spoken with about this issue feels exactly the same - we need to get out of this mess and get out soon. Hopefully with all the new shifts announced, there will be a couple more spots open up somewhere better.

If all the FBS schools stay under the NCAA umbrella and the 4 big conferences go to 16 teams, which it looks like........then you will have 2 conferences just under them, the ACC and the MWC,,,,,,the Big East will be gone as a conference since most will be a part of the new ACC or gone to the Big 4....then you will have the MAC and Sunbelt. I think Tulsa might have a choice of going to either the new ACC or MWC, most likely the ACC, along with former CUSA teams and the remaining Big East teams, which won't be too many. If the new ACC and the MWC go to 16 teams also, then Tulsa will probably have a choice of where to go. That is about the best scenario I can imagine that is at least realistic.

What I hate the most about all this "realignment" is that we actually have to reject the very teams/programs we should have close relations with. A true conference should have like minded goals and objectives, not be at each others throats or be ostracised from the group in some way. But this is the result of the wacky world we are living in.

I suppose the thing I resent the most is that our long history of playing DI sports is suddenly at a crossroads and our very existence is somewhat threatened. We have been playing CFB and college sports for well over a century (our first CFB team started in 1895 - 117 years ago), we have been to the Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, Gator Bowl, Sun Bowl, Liberty etc. We've beaten the likes of OU many times, OSU (of course), Florida, Texas A@M, Notre Dame, etc. We have coaches and players in the CFB and NFL Hall of Fames, All Americans, Heisman runnerups ---- on and on and on. But now we find ourselves in the company of schools and programs that don't even have CFB programs per say and have no history or can't even field an entire competitive team. Our MBB teams have won the NIT twice, have been to the NCAA multiple times, had 3 sweet 16's and an elite 8, and only a snippit away from the final four, all since 1980. Our now discontinued baseball team nearly won the CWS twice for crying out loud. TU grads range from Chicago Bears coach Lovie Smith to golfer Nancy Lopez. It should gall us all that we now find ourselves in such a mess in this joke of a conference.

Now I must say this, I hold no grudges against any of the programs who've come into the "new" CUSA, it isn't their fault. They are just doing what they feel is best for them, but in turn, we must do the same. If we were to find a better situation outside CUSA, I'd be the first to wish them well and God's speed. I'd even accept this situation if it were 2022 instead of 2012 if some of them actually had programs established and had years of success under their belts, but as it stands now, there is no history of success OR failure, just programs of dubious success or no track record whatsoever. It pains me to be like this. I hate seeming like a malcontent, but someone has to speak their mind and put down the Kool aide. IMO.

(05-21-2012 05:36 PM)jfisher Wrote:  If all the FBS schools stay under the NCAA umbrella and the 4 big conferences go to 16 teams, which it looks like........then you will have 2 conferences just under them, the ACC and the MWC,,,,,,the Big East will be gone as a conference since most will be a part of the new ACC or gone to the Big 4....then you will have the MAC and Sunbelt. I think Tulsa might have a choice of going to either the new ACC or MWC, most likely the ACC, along with former CUSA teams and the remaining Big East teams, which won't be too many. If the new ACC and the MWC go to 16 teams also, then Tulsa will probably have a choice of where to go. That is about the best scenario I can imagine that is at least realistic.

I would welcome those scenarios as you've laid out. But my greatest fear is that we may not have the "cajones" to be on top of this. We have a new AD and President. They are new to the job and - like some of the schools in the "new CUSA" - haven't been fully vetted, have no track record and may be apt to follow, not lead. Whether they, and we, are on top of this is still a big question in my mind.

I don't think Ross or the new President will have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the next move if the 4 conferences go to 16 teams. There will be a a few Big East teams left and a couple of ACC teams leftover.....I was theorizing they will merge and and use the ACC name since the basketball schools of the Big East will keep that name. The ACC will expand to 16 teams including the top teams in CUSA and be one of the two conferences right below the Big 4. The MWC will also expand to 16 teams and be the other conference right under the Big 4...........that will only leave about 35 or so teams for the Sunbelt and MAC if they all choose to stay in the FCS category. I don't think this all will take 20 years to happen.....more like 3 years. What happens to a team like Boise St, a Top 10 team for several years now but who wants them. The Pac 12 will have the toughest time going to 16 teams but would they take Boise St.......Stanford, Cal and USC wouldn't give them a second thought. Who the PAC 12 would take is a little shaky. Anyway, I do think Tulsa would have a choice of the New ACC or the MWC......both about equal but I think if Duke and Wake Forest were in the ACC, along with SMU, Houston, Rice and Tulane, Tulsa would definitely go that direction!! I think all the moves that are coming down the pike could be the best thing ever for Tulsa........we still won't be in the 4 big conferences but we will be in a good grouping, more like us. If the 4 Big conferences go out on their own, then Tulsa and 70 or so other schools will be fighting for an NCAA National Championship in football.

I'm not knocking these new schools... It's great for the schools, fans and teams to be playing at a higher level - I'd be extremely happy is I was a fan of any of them. However, from our standpoint, it was a GIANT downgrade in competition. I'm not saying TU needs to be in the SEC or B1G, but I think TU deserves to be in the same conference as Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF and other similar institutions... The Big East or newly rumored ACC would be GREAT fits for TU. Better competition, better name recognition, better TV deals, and probably increased fan support. Even the MWC would be better than CUSA at this point.

I agree the MWC would be better.......especially if CUSA expands any farther, adding Middle Tenn St or Fla Atlantic or some other school no one has heard of would be the last straw. I hope CUSA and MWC don't have an agreement not to pillage the other conference.......because Tulsa would be better off in the MWC!!!

Just think of what sitting on our hands and watching developments occur and not being proactive have caused. The adm has cost us from the standpoint of revenue and any possible exit fees to come. Over the long haul it could be in the millions. You have a good point about some idiotic agreement we may have to challenge. But I don't think they would be allowed to keep a school that doesn't want to stay from going to any conference, including the MWC. That might be cause for court action IMO.

In football terms - Just think about how many more casual fans would come to games with upgraded competition... more fans means more revenue, more revenue + more fans = possible upgrade in facilities (club seating on east side, bowled in endzone ect...). I know i've said it before, but what's going to draw in a causal sports fan in Tulsa - TU vs. UH/TU vs. Colorado St./TU vs. Cincinnati OR TU vs. UTSA/TU vs. UNT/TU vs. Old Dominion. TU will be looked at as playing small ball - no one but die hard fans will want to see that... If TU doesn't at least attempt to get us in another conference, we could be relegated to the "have nots" of college football - and may never recover. I'd hate to see that happen, especially with all that has gone on with the upgrade in football we've seen over the past decade.

I want big thinkers in our athletic dept. Dreamers that see every season as an opportunity to advance. I think our athletic dept have too many people that look at us like Bubba, just a mid major that will never be any better than it is now and probably worse. IMO if you think (like your term) small ball, you end up with that result. I'd much rather have SMU's and UH's thinking that CUSA is a temprary stopover, not a final destination.

A few of our fans are making a mistake when they insinuate we are now in a league that we'll dominate. Well, show me a league we haven't somewhat dominated? But the downside is this: What if they beat us? CFB and MBB is somewhat cyclical - up years, then down. So even if you dominate a "crap league" - (Bill Self), you haven't gained much IMO. The question is - can you win in the long run by dominating a league like that? Isn't that why we (like OSU, Cincy, Louisvile, Houston, Memphis etc) left the old MVC? Is this becoming our version of that mindset, in a similar league?

I'd love to have a big thinker back in the ADept like Glenn Dobbs. Hopefully, we do. But then I'm from the "show me'" state - maybe.


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BTW, off hand, who won the WAC last year? The Sunbelt? The MAC? Anyone know? Anyone care?

(05-30-2012 07:52 AM)rabidTU Wrote:  __________________________________________________________________

BTW, off hand, who won the WAC last year? The Sunbelt? The MAC? Anyone know? Anyone care?

Nope - I don't know and I don't care to be honest with you...

And that's what I'm afraid of - we'll just be lumped into the "crap leagues"

This has a lot to do with competition but I think it has just as much to do with perception. And if we're perceived to be in a "crap league" then that's how all the sports writers, espn's and fans of the world will look at us as.
Small time school in a crap league playing small ball. - I really hope that isn't what it comes down to...

This thread has really been a good one. So I was wondering what some of you great posters think TU could do to be in the conversation for an upgrade in conferences if and when the opportunity arises.

Here is my list:

1. Have a facilities masterplan in place that is prioritized. A long range set of goals with cost estimates for each sports venue. The list should be made public knowledge and be known to the officials of any conference interested in us and we, them. The priority should be revenue sports first, then non-rev.

(1B). Every future fund drive should include an athletic facilities component.

2. Provide premier fan facilities for the average casual fans including the possibility of chairback seats in all stadiums, inexpensive or free parking where feasable and easy access to all the stadiums/arenas and players.

3. Good home schedules that appeal to both casual and longtime TU fans.

4. The possibility of start-up programs that are standard requirements of any conference we may apply to in the future - such as baseball.

5. Encouraging local/regional media to be more TU friendly and discouraging any media member or outlet that isn't.


That's my list. Anyone have something different?

Those are all great points, I think facilities and competition are the 2 that we need to focus on most - I feel like everything will fall into place if we upgrade competition and upgrade facilities (example: suites on east side, bowled in endzone, ect.).

if we beat big name opponents, the media will HAVE to be more TU friendly, also more people will want to come see TU beat/compete against better compeition.

It now appears that CUSA is exploring more "expansion" schools from DI-AA. In my way of thinking, this will speed up UTEP's desire to leave and go to the MWC, if able. The MWC seems to be in a wait and see mode to find out what happens with the BE.

Question: Does Ross Parmley have the phone number to the powers that be in the MWC?

Do we want a conference that includes those CFB "powerhouses" of Delaware and some other DIAA schools from New England?

I still think we should form a "group" of like minded schools and approach the MWC with an offer.


Question: Does Judy M and her association with CUSA hold TU back from exploring "other options"?

This is madness. IMO its time to explore some of those other options discussed in this thread.

Delaware really does't bring a lot of TV sets to the conference......Umass would bring some TV sets. I don't think Delaware playing in Tulsa would draw much of a crowd......I also don't think Middle Tenn St would draw flies in Tulsa. Now Delaware and Umass would give the conference 4 more Senators yelling in Congress about the monopoly of the soon to be former BCS schools. I think Tulsa and UTEP would be smart to move to the MWC and let CUSA add more schools in the East if that's the way they are going.

This is just turning into a giant dumpster fire - we need to get out ASAP.