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Q+A: What if PSU had not joined the Big 10
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Jackson1011 Offline
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Post: #1
 
Question: What if Penn State had not joined the Big Ten in 1990?
-- Chip Millard, Harrisburg

DANA PENNETT O'NEIL responds:

Not much would be different really... except the entire landscape of college football.

In the dominoes that has become college football, Penn State was the first to fall. Even now, 15 years since the Nittany Lions joined the Big Ten, teams are scurrying to align themselves with super conferences.

Long before the Big East decided to add football to its resume, Joe Paterno was calling for an Eastern football conference, made up of traditional rivals such as Penn State and Pitt, West Virginia and Syracuse, maybe adding another power like, say, Miami.

Sound familiar? It should. That was Big East football until Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College jumped ship for the Atlantic Coast Conference. At the time Paterno was calling for such a league, the Big East wasn't interested in football.

Had the Nittany Lions decided not to go west, you can bet eventually the Big East would have become an all-sports league - with Penn State in the mix - and it's not a stretch to think that Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College would have stuck around, happy to have another traditional power like Penn State instead of, well, Rutgers, to compete with.

Would Penn State itself be in a better state right now? That one is more difficult to predict. Big 10 critics like to argue that joining the conference has killed Penn State football, that the Nittany Lions lose out to the likes of Miami and Florida State in the fight for talented East Coast kids and that they can't beat out Michigan and Ohio State in the Midwest. Maybe that's true. There's also the possibility that maybe the program (and Paterno) fell asleep for a few years while the rest of college football sped into the future, and that Penn State and not the Big Ten is to blame for its current state of affairs.
07-27-2005 01:31 PM
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Crewdogz Offline
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Is it too late to woo PSU to the BE..? With more traditional rivals in Pitt and WVU, and the lessening of road trip costs for non revenue sports don't you think it's possible..?
07-27-2005 01:37 PM
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PusherT Offline
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Post: #3
 
Pitt/SU should have followed them then the Big East wouldn't be as in Bad shape as it is today
07-27-2005 01:38 PM
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Jackson1011 Offline
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Quote:Is it too late to woo PSU to the BE..? With more traditional rivals in Pitt and WVU, and the lessening of road trip costs for non revenue sports

-- Hope not but it is a LONG SHOT....but I think we are going to have to wait and try to reason with Joe Pa's successor....the Old man has too strong of a grudge against the BE in general and Pitt in particular


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07-27-2005 01:44 PM
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cardtopper Offline
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The best thing in the world that could happen for Penn St and ND would be to join the BEast. That is the only way either team will be able to fight it's way back to prominance and have a shot at winning the national title anytime soon. I guarantee the current BEast lineup will grow quickly as football powers and one by one surpass both of those programs. Momentum is everything, tradition isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's like old money and new money....they both have the same buying power, if not prestiege.
07-27-2005 02:01 PM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #6
 
It has nothing to do with Joe Pa. The Big Ten is more stable and has more tradition than the BE. The Big Ten generates more dollars than the Big East, and those monies are evenly split. Plus, the academic conference has been great for Penn State. It has greatly increased the academic reputation of PSU. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason for PSU to jump to the BE except for a handful of old PSU fans wanting to play their old rivals.
07-27-2005 02:04 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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It would be nice if Penn State would join the Big Eat because we could use some more football prowes but as I just recently posted on another topic....let's see what the current members of the Big East can do on our own as the Big East for a few years before we start assess who should be invited...who should go....etc.
07-27-2005 02:08 PM
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Cat-Man Offline
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MU88 Wrote:It has nothing to do with Joe Pa. The Big Ten is more stable and has more tradition than the BE. The Big Ten generates more dollars than the Big East, and those monies are evenly split. Plus, the academic conference has been great for Penn State. It has greatly increased the academic reputation of PSU. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason for PSU to jump to the BE except for a handful of old PSU fans wanting to play their old rivals.
Plus the fact that Penn State would be really over their head playing basketball in the Big East. They have a better chance of at least being competitive in the Big 10. On second thought, I am not sure they would be competative anywhere.
07-28-2005 08:33 AM
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JIM15068 Offline
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cardtopper Wrote:The best thing in the world that could happen for Penn St and ND would be to join the BEast. That is the only way either team will be able to fight it's way back to prominance and have a shot at winning the national title anytime soon. I guarantee the current BEast lineup will grow quickly as football powers and one by one surpass both of those programs. Momentum is everything, tradition isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's like old money and new money....they both have the same buying power, if not prestiege.
Cardtopper, why is it that it's so easy for you and me to see this from the outside, but so easy for those closest to the situation to be blind?

I, too, believe that PSU AND ND would probably benefit by joining the BE. However, old dreams die hard. We're talking about 2 very proud and storied programs here who believe glory will come again next year when each will be in the NC game.

Unfortunately, I don't believe either will join the BE, and both their programs will improve somewhat in the future, but not back to the glory years.

Jim
07-28-2005 11:55 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Quote:JIM15068 Posted on Jul 29 2005, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (cardtopper @ Jul 27 2005, 02:07 PM)
The best thing in the world that could happen for Penn St and ND would be to join the BEast. That is the only way either team will be able to fight it's way back to prominance and have a shot at winning the national title anytime soon. I guarantee the current BEast lineup will grow quickly as football powers and one by one surpass both of those programs. Momentum is everything, tradition isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's like old money and new money....they both have the same buying power, if not prestiege. 

Cardtopper, why is it that it's so easy for you and me to see this from the outside, but so easy for those closest to the situation to be blind?

I, too, believe that PSU AND ND would probably benefit by joining the BE. However, old dreams die hard. We're talking about 2 very proud and storied programs here who believe glory will come again next year when each will be in the NC game.

Unfortunately, I don't believe either will join the BE, and both their programs will improve somewhat in the future, but not back to the glory years.

Maybe they will catch on when Louisville, WVU, Pitt or SU wins an NC in this league? But as of yet, none of those teams have even won a BCS Bowl game.

Cheers,
Neil
07-29-2005 12:55 PM
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USFPDiddy Offline
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The same could be said of a lot of very good teams, even recently.

Texas, for example, did not see BCS until last year, and yet they've been consistenly very good for a while.

Cal got the short straw last year.

UL probably could have won some BCS matchups last year, though not all.

Penn State has also not been to the BCS(i dont think), though they were close once.

NC State has never seen the BCS, though the year they were 8-0 or something they appeared headed there.

Lots of teams that used to be really good haven't since the BCS era came around, as well. Late 80's early 90's houston, 1980 SMU, etc.

Anyway, point is that the teams in the BE are also capable of winning BCS matchups, especially vs the abysmal teams that sometimes come out of other conferences! Remember the 9 win FSU team that had it's WR throwing half the time against UGA? Yeah, real tough game for the Dawgs there. Pitt looked BETTER than that FSU squad...ouch.

10-3 WSU wasn't bad, but badly overmatched against oklahoma in the rose bowl.

The kansas state team that upset undefeated OU looked more like kansas against ohio state...ick.

The BE will be like the old ACC, everyones going to question its legitimacy in the BCS, but it will develop enough good programs to start winning BCS games.

Remember guys, the ACC used to *suck* sans FSU.
07-29-2005 03:01 PM
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Cat's_Claw Offline
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MU88 Wrote:It has nothing to do with Joe Pa. The Big Ten is more stable and has more tradition than the BE. The Big Ten generates more dollars than the Big East, and those monies are evenly split. Plus, the academic conference has been great for Penn State. It has greatly increased the academic reputation of PSU. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason for PSU to jump to the BE except for a handful of old PSU fans wanting to play their old rivals.
I understand the stability part, I'm not all that sold on the academic part. Or the tradition part. Really, I couldn't care less about Penn State, the Big East has to build its own reputation. Penn State is a bottom dwelling Big Ten program now, in both football AND basketball, so let them rot there I say.
07-30-2005 01:24 PM
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brista21 Offline
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MU88 Wrote:It has nothing to do with Joe Pa. The Big Ten is more stable and has more tradition than the BE. The Big Ten generates more dollars than the Big East, and those monies are evenly split. Plus, the academic conference has been great for Penn State. It has greatly increased the academic reputation of PSU. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason for PSU to jump to the BE except for a handful of old PSU fans wanting to play their old rivals.
Sure the Big Ten has more tradition and history than the Big East its 4x older. However, that would not be one of Penn State's allures to the Big Ten because they aren't part of the history or tradition even 12 years later. Most people I know think of Penn State as Penn State still not as a member of the Big Ten and when they think of the Big Ten they think of Michigan, Ohio State, Michigan State, Indiana, etc. They often forget that PSU is a member.
07-30-2005 02:56 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Quote:brista21 Posted on Jul 30 2005, 03:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (MU88 @ Jul 27 2005, 02:10 PM)
It has nothing to do with Joe Pa. The Big Ten is more stable and has more tradition than the BE. The Big Ten generates more dollars than the Big East, and those monies are evenly split. Plus, the academic conference has been great for Penn State. It has greatly increased the academic reputation of PSU. Consequently, there is absolutely no reason for PSU to jump to the BE except for a handful of old PSU fans wanting to play their old rivals. 

Sure the Big Ten has more tradition and history than the Big East its 4x older. However, that would not be one of Penn State's allures to the Big Ten because they aren't part of the history or tradition even 12 years later. Most people I know think of Penn State as Penn State still not as a member of the Big Ten and when they think of the Big Ten they think of Michigan, Ohio State, Michigan State, Indiana, etc. They often forget that PSU is a member

Agreed. 1000%.

When casual fans across the country think Big 10, PSU would be lucky to be the eighth team mentioned after the four you name and probably Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa. Of course it doesn't help when the conference doesn't even change its name to recognize that they now have 11 members instead of 10 03-wink

Penn State is recognized for being Penn State - not for being a Big 10 team. In this regard, they are the closest equivalent to Notre Dame.

Cheers,
Neil
07-30-2005 03:37 PM
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FunkmasterFlash Offline
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Post: #15
 
I've been to Happy Valley three times, and I didn't see any signs of unhappiness in the B10. They're playing simular with simular athletic programs and the acedemics are a perfect match with the rest of the conference. PSU fans think of themeselves, or at least used to, as being on par with the Ohio State's and Michigain's of college sports. Pepole either blame Jo Pa on the downfall, or just dismiss it as a few rough years and think they're on the way back to the top. No one I've talked to blames it on the B10. The fact that the BE and PSU couldn't work it out sucks, but the issue has been settled for decades.
07-31-2005 12:27 PM
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