Don't fret over BC's travel costs in the ACC. Will they go up? Yep. Will their increased revenue cover those costs? Uh, yeah, and then some which is why they made the move. Did anybody think they did switch without assessing that issue? And much of it remains similar to the BE, after all they only drove to UConn, Providence and sometimes SJU. Otherwise it's hop on the plane...

Where they will miss out is on the potential to attract a lot of fans from visiting teams or have their fans travel to away games in conference. Though these issues might not be so big as I don't think much of their attendance was based on traveling fans anyways, they'll be able to schedule other regional schools for non-conference games and being a smaller private school I don't think they brought thousands of fans around with them anyway, hence the reason they and the ACC think it might work out.

But wait, there's more! Distance from Miami to Tallahassee (Home to FSU for the uninitiated) is 478 miles (roughly), which is further than the distance from Boston to College Park, Maryland (about 440 miles). What makes the BC -ACC thing seem more distant than it is is the volume of schools and geopolitical divisions in between. No one thinks about the Miami issue because it's one state, whereas BC has to cross over several states and pass by other BCS schools to reach their closest rival. And for those offering ECU as BE #9, their closest 1-A conference rivals would be WVU and Rutgers, both roughly 480 miles away.

I'd rather have seen someone other than BC make this move, but I don't think the financial side of traveling will hurt the school, per se.

99Tiger Wrote:

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:Letehemeul,

You seem to be missing the point as well as our Tiger friend.  My point is that if the ACC expands into a super conference  that the State of NC will not let ECU be left behind.  The first expansion was a different story and if 16 happens its do or die and politics will get heavily involved.

I too would like to see the SEC expand into NC.  I agree that right now the ACC and ECU won't mesh but if the ACC goes to 16 and it is do or die for ECU you will see a different attitude in Raleigh and in the East.  After all ECU has a damn big economic impact on our state and that will not be overlooked if the ACC looks to dominate the East Coast.

RCP, I think you're being overly optimistic if you think the NC governor could or would push ECU into the ACC. He could swing two votes (NC State and UNC). Duke and Wake are private and he doesn't control their purse strings. UVA and VA Tech would likely say no to further protect the SE VA area for themselves and the rest of the ACC would probably say that you don't bring any markets since UVA and VA Tech should being the Tidewater market that ECU fans love to brag about.

Plus, it was pointed out that WVU is Tier 3 and would be rejected academically. ECU is in the same boat.

In short, thinking that the NC governor would be able to help y'all get into the ACC is just setting yourself up for a huge disappointment.

99,

I am not setting myself up for a disappointment because I have no desire to be a part of the ACC. None. Not as it is now. But I do know that if the ACC goes to 16 and essentially kills the BE I will fight as will many that ECU not be left behind. That is my point. I can bet you that theNC Governor and the legislature would come to bat if the ACC went to say 16. The reason being that if htat is hte case it owuld be do or die for East Carolina and those like us on the East Coast. It would be the nail in the coffin and ECU does have a huge economic impact on this state and the Eastern part of this state. The folks in Raleigh will not let one if its own be left behind if it is do or die like I think that would be.

I think the same could be said for Memphis and UT. When push comes to shove and it is do or die I would imagine they would go to bat for you too.

Sorry to disappoint people but the ACC isn't expanding in the not-to-distant future, and they're sure not going to raid to make BC happy or to add to the Northeast market. People are under the mistaken impression that the ACC expanded to get the Northeast markets. That's not the case at all. The ACC expanded to make Florida State happy. Syracuse and Boston College only came along to make Miami happy. Then the Northeast market talk was added so that they could sell a 12 team conference to university presidents. The ACC isn't expanding beyond 12. There isn't going to be support for that, they barely got support to expand beyond 10. They couldn't care less about the Northeast markets, they're not interested in adding a traveling buddy for BC and the ACC, just like the SEC, knows that gonig beyond 12 is a huge gamble that will cost them money in the short terms and potentially bigger bucks in the long term.

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:ECU does have a huge economic impact on this state and the Eastern part of this state. The folks in Raleigh will not let one if its own be left behind if it is do or die like I think that would be.

ECU has a huge economic impact on Greenville and perhaps the counties immediately adjacent to it. ECU's contribution to the economy of NC is negligible at best. IF the ACC were to expand to 16 (don't hold your breath, mind you), the government of NC _might_ give a lip service effort to include East Carolina. But that is all.

Furthermore, it wouldn't even matter if NC summoned all powers at its disposal. UVa's insistence upon Virginia Tech's inclusion was not the most important factor in the Hokies' eventual admission to the ACC. It was one variable in the equation that became super charged once UNC and Duke decided to try to kill the overall process.

I'm Not Dutch Hoffman Wrote:

RIVER CITY PIRATE Wrote:ECU does have a huge economic impact on this state and the Eastern part of this state.  The folks in Raleigh will not let one if its own be left behind if it is do or die like I think that would be.

ECU has a huge economic impact on Greenville and perhaps the counties immediately adjacent to it. ECU's contribution to the economy of NC is negligible at best. IF the ACC were to expand to 16 (don't hold your breath, mind you), the government of NC _might_ give a lip service effort to include East Carolina. But that is all.

Furthermore, it wouldn't even matter if NC summoned all powers at its disposal. UVa's insistence upon Virginia Tech's inclusion was not the most important factor in the Hokies' eventual admission to the ACC. It was one variable in the equation that became super charged once UNC and Duke decided to try to kill the overall process.

What is two billion dollars per year to the economy of Eastern NC? Is that not significant? Perhaps you do not realize that most of Eastern NC (29 counties) are connected to ECU especially in the medical field as the ECU medical school and services serves most all of eastern NC with new hospitals, traveling ECU Doctors, computeized connections and medevac service. ECU and eastern NC are connected in many ways, especially medically and industrially.

In this case, I think that you speak of what you are not aware of.

Quote:There are 3 fundamental requirements to expand:
- More Money
- More Markets
- More Competitive

Only a very very small handful of schools meet those requirements... and only ONE that I would like to see happen.
- Syracuse (I already don't like BC in the ACC; I don't want to add more that far north)
- Florida (A nice geographical and rivalry fit... but there are strong integrity/academic issues)
- Notre Dame (Not a geographical or rivalry fit. Their only ACC rivalry would be with Georgia Tech AFAIK)
- South Carolina (Secures the entire state of SC.. and opens up a collective market of Charleston, Columbia, Hilton Head area, Grand Strand area, as well as reinforcing Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market. Without their buisness school, they wouldn't make the cut academically. This is only one I would like to see happen.)

Georgia Tech Swagger,

Well, you've got the factors right at least.

The ACC will never, let me repeat this again, NEVER, dominate the true South or the true southern fans - unless the unthinkable happens and the major schools in the SEC all manage to get the death penalty.

The SEC is solid in the south west of the Apps and has the ACC handcuffed in three southern states east of the Apps (with 1/2 of Fla, most of Ga, and most of the SC markets)

It has all of the flagship southern state schools (Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, LSU, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky). ACC expansion with these schools simply isn't happening.

The ACC basically only has to itself the mid-Atlantic states of North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland.

One of the reasons that eventually Virginia Tech was palatable to the ACC was the hidden fear that the SEC may expand to 14 with VT and WVU, in which case the behemoth of the Deep South would be encrouching on ACC territory even more.

The other reason was because they were led to believe the addition of VT to FSU and Clemson would significantly increase their non-BCS Bowl tie-ins. Something that doesn't look like it's going to happen, at least not in the current round of negotiations for Bowl affiliations.

Should the ACC decide to expand again, as much as they may not like it, they will once again look northward. As already stated, the ACC can't be SEC-lite. It will lose that battle, and lose badly.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

Quote:There are 3 fundamental requirements to expand:
- More Money
- More Markets
- More Competitive

Only a very very small handful of schools meet those requirements... and only ONE that I would like to see happen.
- Syracuse (I already don't like BC in the ACC; I don't want to add more that far north)
- Florida (A nice geographical and rivalry fit... but there are strong integrity/academic issues)
- Notre Dame (Not a geographical or rivalry fit. Their only ACC rivalry would be with Georgia Tech AFAIK)
- South Carolina (Secures the entire state of SC.. and opens up a collective market of Charleston, Columbia, Hilton Head area, Grand Strand area, as well as reinforcing Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson market. Without their buisness school, they wouldn't make the cut academically. This is only one I would like to see happen.)

Georgia Tech Swagger,

Well, you've got the factors right at least.

The ACC will never, let me repeat this again, NEVER, dominate the true South or the true southern fans - unless the unthinkable happens and the major schools in the SEC all manage to get the death penalty.

The SEC is solid in the south west of the Apps and has the ACC handcuffed in three southern states east of the Apps (with 1/2 of Fla, most of Ga, and most of the SC markets)

It has all of the flagship southern state schools (Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Alabama, LSU, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky). ACC expansion with these schools simply isn't happening.

The ACC basically only has to itself the mid-Atlantic states of North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland.

One of the reasons that eventually Virginia Tech was palatable to the ACC was the hidden fear that the SEC may expand to 14 with VT and WVU, in which case the behemoth of the Deep South would be encrouching on ACC territory even more.

The other reason was because they were led to believe the addition of VT to FSU and Clemson would significantly increase their non-BCS Bowl tie-ins. Something that doesn't look like it's going to happen, at least not in the current round of negotiations for Bowl affiliations.

Should the ACC decide to expand again, as much as they may not like it, they will once again look northward. As already stated, the ACC can't be SEC-lite. It will lose that battle, and lose badly.

Cheers,
Neil

There's a difference b/t the south and the DEEP south. Frankly, I don't want the ACC to have strong ties into the DEEP south... I wouldn't exactly call UT or Miss. State or 'Bama an academic juggernaut. None of the schools in the SEC outside of Vandy and USC-E (thanks to its buisness school) make the grade (bad pun intended).

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:There's a difference b/t the south and the DEEP south. Frankly, I don't want the ACC to have strong ties into the DEEP south... I wouldn't exactly call UT or Miss. State or 'Bama an academic juggernaut. None of the schools in the SEC outside of Vandy and USC-E (thanks to its buisness school) make the grade (bad pun intended).

Your pompous arrogance is laughable considering you just took Virginia Tech into your conference - so much for academic importance. I don't believe I'm about to defend the University of Fl*rida, but they're MUCH more highly regarded than Florida State. In fact, they're effectively even with Georgia Tech according to US News.

If you want academic snobbery, why not join the Ivy League? Oh yeah, they wouldn't want to be associated with a lowly school like Georgia Tech. They'd likely sooner take Emory!

USFFan

**ouch**


AAU Membership: <a href='http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html' target='_blank'>http://www.aau.edu/aau/members.html</a>


Funny the only institution from Georgia on this list is Emory....must be some mistake.

George63 Wrote:What is two billion dollars per year to the economy of Eastern NC?&nbsp; Is that not significant?&nbsp; Perhaps you do not realize that most of Eastern NC (29 counties) are connected to ECU especially in the medical field as the ECU medical school and services serves most all of eastern NC with new hospitals, traveling ECU Doctors, computeized connections and medevac service.&nbsp; ECU and eastern NC are connected in many ways, especially medically and industrially.

In this case, I think that you speak of what you are not aware of.

That's all fine and well, but what does that have to do with ECU athletics? The argument that has been advanced is that leaving ECU out of any BCS conference expansion would have a negative economic impact upon the state of North Carolina. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any factual data to substantiate that claim.

There are several regional universities throughout the country having service relationships of the type that you described. By that logic, I suppose the ACC needs to take a long look at Troy State, Georgia Southern, and the College of Charleston if they ever consider further expansion.

ECU ain't gettin invited to the ACC

EvilVodka Wrote:ECU ain't gettin invited to the ACC

According to you the ACC is expanding to like 40 teams so why not invite ECU?

usffan Wrote:Your pompous arrogance is laughable considering you just took Virginia Tech into your conference - so much for academic importance. I don't believe I'm about to defend the University of Fl*rida, but they're MUCH more highly regarded than Florida State. In fact, they're effectively even with Georgia Tech according to US News.

If you want academic snobbery, why not join the Ivy League? Oh yeah, they wouldn't want to be associated with a lowly school like Georgia Tech. They'd likely sooner take Emory!

USFFan

The ACC has this arrogance that they're the end all be all of academics. Notre Dame has nothing on their arrogance. No wonder Notre Dame didn't join the ACC they probably thought that THEY were arrogant!

AAU membership is by nomination from existing members only, and as shown by the list the members are predominantly land grant institutions or prestigious private universities, with most of the membership having been involved since the 50's or earlier. A great deal of the focus of the AAU is collaboration for reviewing national research policy with special concerns for professional education, agricultural, medical and legal research. GT is both a considerably young university (born in the late 1800's) and does not have law or medical schools, limiting the extent of their interest or need for AAU membership. I have no idea if they've campaigned for membership, but I'm not surprised they've not been admitted thus far. It is a pretty small group.

I'd love to see GT gain such membership as affiliating with those institutions on another level could only bring more positives. Obviously how this status is used can be a factor on some level of how certain schools do associate with each other (ie Big Ten membership criteria). But as has been pointed out regarding the USN, Carnegie Foundation classifications and other issues, these things are also not the end all/be all of what determines a universities true value. Otherwise all conferences not named the B10 would be screwed! :)

As this has been raised to me before I have emailed several staff at GT and if I get a formal response I'll post it here.