http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/past...04793.html

Obviously if it goes to those levels it's excessive, but when do you guys and Robert think the line is being crossed.

I think evil and crazy people do evil and crazy things. With thousands of cases of abuse in this country each year, why does a book get singled out as bad for an alleged connection to three of them? Especially when none of these cases followed the guidance given in the book.

I'm pretty sure I don't agree w/ substantial parts of this book, but the witch hunt is ridiculous. Or perhaps coordinated to turn the spotlight away from real problem areas

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.t...iuomK6vx8Q

(11-07-2011 04:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I think evil and crazy people do evil and crazy things. With thousands of cases of abuse in this country each year, why does a book get singled out as bad for an alleged connection to three of them.

I'm pretty sure I don't agree w/ substantial parts of this book, but the witch hunt is ridiculous.

I'm sure there is a connection to the extreme, right wing, conservative, Christian fundamentalists Tea Party types. Its pretty clear thats who's responsible here. Or these people could just be crazy and tortured their poor kids to death...who knows?

Roberta is a poor choice to seek an opinion from, having been beaten senseless by his parents.

On the brighter side, millions of children are brought up each year by parents who love and adore their children.

(11-07-2011 04:43 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/past...04793.html

Obviously if it goes to those levels it's excessive, but when do you guys and Robert think the line is being crossed.

I have three rules for corporal punishment in my home:

1) Never do it when you're angry. The purpose of discipline is to love and raise up your kid not to "get even". If you're pissed at them for doing something wrong send them to their room so that they, and you, can digest what just happened. You can calm down

2) Never Before the age of 1 (With the exception of reaching for a hotplate or something) and Never After Age 7 when reason can be more effective

3) Never use it as a stand alone to deal with the problem. Corporal Punishment should be more an attention getter not the end result. Every time it has to be deployed it better be followed by a long conversation about right, wrong, and obedience.

(11-08-2011 10:32 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(11-07-2011 04:43 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/past...04793.html

Obviously if it goes to those levels it's excessive, but when do you guys and Robert think the line is being crossed.

I have three rules for corporal punishment in my home:

1) Never do it when you're angry. The purpose of discipline is to love and raise up your kid not to "get even". If you're pissed at them for doing something wrong send them to their room so that they, and you, can digest what just happened. You can calm down

2) Never Before the age of 1 (With the exception of reaching for a hotplate or something) and Never After Age 7 when reason can be more effective

3) Never use it as a stand alone to deal with the problem. Corporal Punishment should be more an attention getter not the end result. Every time it has to be deployed it better be followed by a long conversation about right, wrong, and obedience.

Mine were a bit different.

1. Angry didn't bother me, b/c God gets angry at His people. But, knowing ahead of time what corporal punishment meant, and what I intended to accomplish meant that I never went overboard.

2. The idea is to sting. That's it. A sting is a sharp, immediate pain, but actually persists for some seconds. That gets a child's attention, and keeps it in his head. 1 or 2 swats is all you need. The main problem I had was that a diaper prevents any sting.

Never try to do more w/ corporal punishment than sting. That's when you get into trouble.

3. Try to be quick with it. Let the cause and effect be close enough for the child to understand.

4. Like you said, follow up with a conversation.

5. We stopped spanking around 4 years old. My wife pushed for that, I thought it would still be fine at 6 or 7.

(11-08-2011 11:34 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(11-08-2011 10:32 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(11-07-2011 04:43 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/past...04793.html

Obviously if it goes to those levels it's excessive, but when do you guys and Robert think the line is being crossed.

I have three rules for corporal punishment in my home:

1) Never do it when you're angry. The purpose of discipline is to love and raise up your kid not to "get even". If you're pissed at them for doing something wrong send them to their room so that they, and you, can digest what just happened. You can calm down

2) Never Before the age of 1 (With the exception of reaching for a hotplate or something) and Never After Age 7 when reason can be more effective

3) Never use it as a stand alone to deal with the problem. Corporal Punishment should be more an attention getter not the end result. Every time it has to be deployed it better be followed by a long conversation about right, wrong, and obedience.

1. Angry didn't bother me, b/c God gets angry at His people. But, knowing ahead of time what corporal punishment meant, and what I intended to accomplish meant that I never went overboard.

God's Anger is Just and always right. Mine, not so much:

"for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God"

As to timing... With a 1 or 2 year old you have to be fast (like I said hand towards a hot pot or what not) but by five they can reason (sort of) and connect the two even if separated by some minutes.

I almost forget my #4:

When it's done, it's done. Can't model God's forgiveness through Christ if we ourselves don't forgive after discipline.

I don't have any kids but I remember my parent's rules. Remember my upbringing may have been culturally different than the rest of the board.

1. Daddy was the primary spanker (I prefer whoopin'). He wasn't very angry about it and was more likely to warn you before he got home. Mom would rather not do it, but when she did, she didn't take prisoners.

2. In the 'it takes a village to raise a child' theory, everyone in the family who kept you (aunts, uncles, grandparents) were trusted enough with your safety that if you did something dangerous, they generally had permission to lay it down if they needed too.

3. It only happened until about 10 to 11 with a belt, switch, or hand. It was only for blatant disrespect, lying, immediate danger to yourself or others. After that age discipline was mainly grounding.

There's a flip side too. Sometimes a kid is disobedient but it's so funny or cute you're tempted to let it go. But, if you're going to discipline them, you have to do it b/c next time that defiance or disobedience may have grave consequences.

Again, a stinging swat is quick and easy.

(11-08-2011 11:51 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I almost forget my #4:

When it's done, it's done. Can't model God's forgiveness through Christ if we ourselves don't forgive after discipline.

Absolutely. Excellent point.