12th game, BCS standing good news for Pitt, Big East
Friday, April 29, 2005

By Ray Fittipaldo, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The good news keeps rolling in for Pitt and the Big East Conference.
Yesterday the NCAA passed the 12th game legislation which will allow Division I-A teams to balance their budgets more easily with another home game. That news came one day after the Big East was told that it has virtually nothing to worry about when it comes to the automatic qualification standard in the Bowl Championship Series.

The Big East's inclusion in the BCS is guaranteed through 2007. A new qualification standard set Wednesday by the BCS almost assures the conference will be included every year beyond that.

The conferences will be judged over a four-year period on the average rank of the highest ranked team in the BCS standings. In addition, conferences also will be judged on "overall strength." Plus, there will be a provision that will allow conferences to make their cases should they fall short of the new criteria.

It also was determined that Louisville's final ranking in the BCS standings last season will count for the Big East when this four-year period is evaluated. Louisville finished 10th in the BCS standings. Pitt, at No. 21, had been the highest-ranked team from the Big East in the BCS, which could have crippled the conference's chances for automatic qualification.

"We're pleased," said Pitt athletic director Jeff Long, who represented the Big East at the BCS meetings in Phoenix. "There's going to be a fair assessment of all conferences. We, as a conference, will stack up to those standards. Having Louisville count obviously will help us."

The major discussion in Phoenix centered on creating a new poll that takes the place of The Associated Press poll, which asked the BCS not to use its poll after last season. The National Football Foundation is the leading candidate to conduct the new poll. It would poll mostly former coaches.

Long is one of the administrators who is being asked to come up with ideas to better a system that has been ridiculed for its inability to determine a consensus national champion. Three Division I-A teams finished the regular season unbeaten last year. USC and Oklahoma played for the national title. Auburn was left out in the cold.

Short of having a playoff -- which Long said does not have support among athletic directors or commissioners -- there is not a foolproof formula.

"We look at it as tweaking the formula," Long said. "There has been controversy. No matter what the system is, unless there is a playoff, there is going to be controversy. When there are three undefeated teams we understand that there is going to be controversy."

<a href='http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05119/496339.stm' target='_blank'>Pittsburgh Post Gazette</a>

That is great news! But I must have missed something. I dont recall reading anything in particular that equaled the news that the BE will pretty much always be included in the bsc automatic qualification. Did I overlook this very vauable info?

cuseroc Wrote:That is great news! But I must have missed something. I dont recall reading anything in particular that equaled the news that the BE will pretty much always be included in the bsc automatic qualification. Did I overlook this very vauable info?

Note the 'market consideration' mention along with the 'attendance consideration'. On market coverage alone the BE it too enormous to eliminate and I haven't looked at the data but I can't imagine the MWC would outdraw us at the gate.

They won't outdraw us at the gate this year. Syracuse should average 4-5,000 more just with a new coach and attitude to about 42k, IMHO. WVU will pull 55k. Pitt is unpredictable but somewhere between 40-50k, UL will do close to 40k, UConn will do 38-39k, Cinci--gotta think 25k, Rutgers--upper 20s, USF--??? their attendance numbers have always looked rigged

BYU, USAFA, Utah and UNM (they had one good attendance year in 2004) only schools that approach or exceed 35k. TCU may get a bump this year though to get to 38k. CSU, SDSU and UNLV will be in the 20s and WYO will be around 15k

We outdrew MWC by nearly 2500 last year. BC and UL are a wash. Cinci should beat Temple. USF and Cinci needs to average about 25k to keep us ahead of MWC, IMHO

TexanMark Wrote:Cinci--gotta think 25k,

With our schedule this year, that actually would be pretty good.

Weeknight home opener against Eastern Michigan, home game with 1-AA Western Carolina, but if we have a .500 or better record after that, things will pick up with UCONN, UofL, and WVU.

This points out another problem. It's difficult enough to get quality OOC opponents to play at home, adding a 12th game will make it even more so.

Here are the attendance numbers from 2003 (from the NCAA). I have yet to do the numbers for 2004.

The bottom line is that the MWC compares very well with the BE and teams like Cinn, USF, and RU will have to do better. Ideally each school should get around 35k but having all schools over 30k for an immediate goal seems at least reasonable I think.

Anway, the attendance is close, but I'm not sure about this years numbers. The only attendance I adjusted from last year was Pitt. I know the attendance will be down from the 58K they averaged last year. I guessed about a 14k drop.

2003 attendance stats:
<a href='http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attendance/2003/2003footballattendance.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/attenda...lattendance.pdf</a>

West Virginia - 52,000
Pittsburgh – 44,000 (I assumed attendance dropped 15k from last year)
Syracuse – 41,000
Connecticut – 37,000
Rutgers – 27,000

Louisville – 40,000
South Florida – 30,000
Cinn – 22,000

Total (assuming UL, USF, and Cinn count towards this year and subtract BC and Temple) = 293,000/8 teams = 36,600 average

Temple – 24,000
BC – 42,000

Mountain West

BYU – 61,000
AFA – 39,000
Utah – 35,000
UNM – 33,000
CSU – 30,500
SDSU – 23,000
UNLV – 24,000
Wyoming – 16,000

Plus figuring TCU which will join next year...
TCU = 36,000

303,000/9 = 33,600

L-yes,Apr 29 2005, 11:27 AM Wrote:[QUOTE=cuseroc,Apr 29 2005, 10:41 AM] and I haven't looked at the data but I can't imagine the MWC would outdraw us at the gate.

FWIW, here's 2004 (as reported, but not from NCAA):

UC 21,255
USF 27,060
RU 30,994
SU 37,068
UConn 39,304
UofL 40,531
Pitt 41,600
WVU 56,545
----------------
Ave 36,795

UWy 16,413
UNLV 21,870
CSU 27,296
TCU 29,413
SDSU 35,995
NM 37,282
AF 38,043
Utah 44,112
BYU 58,475
---------------
Ave 34,322


Schools of Interest:
Memphis 41,175
Fresno State 39,777
ECU 30,684
Boise State 30,499

<a href='http://www.kenn.com/sports/football/ncaa/' target='_blank'>http://www.kenn.com/sports/football/ncaa/</a>

TexanMark Wrote:Rutgers--upper 20s, USF--??? their attendance numbers have always looked rigged

Rutgers has averaged over 30,000 for the last 2 seasons. Last year we averaged nearly 31,000 a game. If we start winning you'll be seeing expansion plans and sellouts.

I hope so, no offense

You were about 27,300 in 2003 so upper 20's isn't too far off.

Quote:UC 21,255
USF 27,060
RU 30,994
SU 37,068
UConn 39,304
UofL 40,531
Pitt 41,600
WVU 56,545
----------------
Ave 36,795

I don't believe the Big East will ever have to appeal to the BCS, because I think we'll meet the on the field requirements (top team rank, overall conference strength, top 25 teams), but I believe attendance was one of the factors mentioned in the recent BCS meetings when considering an appeal from a conference, correct?

Long term, I don't think it will be a concern, with Louisville and UConn already talking about expanding. If they were to each increase their attendance 10k, the overall average would be about 40,000.

Quote:If we start winning you'll be seeing expansion plans and sellouts.

Yeah, if Rutgers were a successful program they could probably have a darn big stadium considering the size of their state and the fact that they are the only D1 program in said state. Heck, selling out 42k for Michigan State after years and years of futility is impressive, it's a shame RU couldn't have kept the momentum going last year.

UC ALWAYS draws well with Big Ten and Big East schools, so you can probably add about 3,000 to 5,000 fans per game. With the addition of interest in the Big East conference now that UC is in it, and with the number of local talent UC has brought in, I would be disappointed with UC didn't draw, at LEAST 25,000 to 28,000 fans per game.

TexanMark Wrote:They won't outdraw us at the gate this year. Syracuse should average 4-5,000 more just with a new coach and attitude to about 42k, IMHO. WVU will pull 55k. Pitt is unpredictable but somewhere between 40-50k, UL will do close to 40k, UConn will do 38-39k, Cinci--gotta think 25k, Rutgers--upper 20s, USF--??? their attendance numbers have always looked rigged

BYU, USAFA, Utah and UNM (they had one good attendance year in 2004) only schools that approach or exceed 35k. TCU may get a bump this year though to get to 38k. CSU, SDSU and UNLV will be in the 20s and WYO will be around 15k

We outdrew MWC by nearly 2500 last year. BC and UL are a wash. Cinci should beat Temple. USF and Cinci needs to average about 25k to keep us ahead of MWC, IMHO

Mark,
UofL did over 40K last year playing a bunch of teams that Cardinal fans had ZERO passion for. Plans are already underway for the Papa to go large, real large..55K to 60K large. Bottom line every game for Louisville sold out last season in anticipation of just joining the Big East. Our marketing department actually used the slogan "Get in now" to push season ticket sells to a sell-out. I can only imagine what is going to happen when Cardinal fans get to watch BCS football. It should be an awesome season.
CJ

Correct me, if I am wrong, but the NCAA will start counting sold tickets next year. Louisville wille jump to 42,000+.

Quote:UC ALWAYS draws well with Big Ten and Big East schools, so you can probably add about 3,000 to 5,000 fans per game. With the addition of interest in the Big East conference now that UC is in it, and with the number of local talent UC has brought in, I would be disappointed with UC didn't draw, at LEAST 25,000 to 28,000 fans per game.

-- I hope your right Cat's Claw....we really need the alums/students of UC and the residents of Cincy to start supporting the Bearcats more....I'm not exactly sure what has been the problem over there but hopefully UC football can start marketing itself a little better since its in the BE...I hope the UC football fans don't give up on this team too early...its very young but I think the talent is there

-- Its a shame that the UC/WVU game is on a weeknight because that would at least given the Bearcats one home game with a crowd over 30,000...but not sure how many WVU fans are traveling now because of the date...I know I was orginally going down untill I saw that it was a weeknight game


Jackson

Louisville usually packs Nippert when we go up there. I am sure this year will be no different.