This is from CBS Sportsline.com

Automatic qualifier

In 2008 and 2009, the number of conferences getting automatic BCS berths will be capped at seven. Conferences will be judged BCS worthy at that time based on average rank of their champion and other criteria from 2004 through 2007.

However, Weiberg said that a conference could qualify based on "market size". That seems to give the benefit of the doubt to the Big East remaining in the BCS despite losing Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech. The league still has a sizable demographic on the East Coast.

That's bad new for the Mountain West, which has been campaigning heavily for BCS status coming off the great the season by Utah.

"You pick out any measurement, any criteria, we've have probably finished fifth, sixth or seventh in our six-year existence," Mountain West commissioner Craig Thompson said. "Whether that's attendance, strength of schedule, bowl appearances, national TV appearances. We're right in the hunt."

<a href='http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/8424759/3' target='_blank'>http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/...story/8424759/3</a>

Couple points:

What exactly does market size have to do with the football team you put on a field? Nothing.

Secondly, the MWC is campaigning on Utah's success, yet the entire league behind them was really down last year.

The BCS was NEVER about football, it is and always will be about money. It is as simple as that.

BCS = money, thats the bottom line! We have said over and over again there is no way BE will lose its BCS bid because it would take away 1/3 of the population in the East. No way in hell top down MWC is a better conference than the BE. Utah might be a good team last year, but rest of the MWC sucked. BE is way more balanced than the MWC and the new formula will keep the BE keeping its BCS bid for a long, long time.

The Knight Time Wrote:Couple points:

What exactly does market size have to do with the football team you put on a field? Nothing.

Secondly, the MWC is campaigning on Utah's success, yet the entire league behind them was really down last year.

Market size has always been important to the BCS. The BCS pay outs are based on advertising dollars. Two thirds of the nations population resides in Big East markets. Did those in CUSA predicting the demise of the Big East really believe that the BCS would simply walk away from this market share. How could the BCS justify what it demands from advertisers and broadcasters if the Northeast corridor was not part of the agreement. This is just another example of what those from USF, UC and UofL have been saying all along about the reasons the Big East won't lose its bid.

It appears not only TV markets but also tradition of the schools in conference will also be a factor...if that is the case its hard for me to picture the BCS closing its doors on Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia


Jackson




BCS changes may keep Big East in fold

By MIKE KNOBLER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/27/05

PHOENIX — Now that the ACC has taken Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College from the Big East, will the Bowl Championship Series take away the Big East's automatic berth?

Possibly, but not until the 2008 season at the earliest.

The BCS adopted new rules Wednesday that could change which leagues' champions are guaranteed berths in one of college football's five biggest bowl games. So far, those automatic berths have been reserved for the ACC, the Big East, the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Pac-10 and the SEC.

Conferences will be measured in three ways over a four-year stretch from 2004-07:

• Average ranking in the BCS standings for the conference's highest-rated team.

• Average ranking in the BCS computer standings for every member of the conference.

• Number of Top 25 teams.

The measurements will be based on a conference's 2008 membership; the Big East gets credit for what Louisville did last fall, and the ACC gets credit for Boston College.

Five to seven top-performing conferences will get automatic qualification for the 2008 and 2009 seasons, BCS coordinator Kevin Weiberg said. But there's a human element, too. A committee of eight university presidents will be empowered to grant automatic qualification based on other criteria, including the conference's market size, its tradition, its television ratings and its history of selling bowl tickets.

Those committee criteria appear to favor the Big East, with its large population base. But Big East commissioner Mike Tranghese said his league — now led by Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and Syracuse — should be able to perform well enough on the field that it doesn't need help from the committee.

"I think they're fair [numerical measurements] and they're attainable," Tranghese said. "I don't have a crystal ball, but neither do the other conferences."

The committee criteria reflect a fact about the BCS and bowls in general: They're not only about on-the-field performance. They're also about fan bases, ticket sales and TV ratings, all of which have been strengths of the original BCS members.

"It gets back to the reason those conferences are the ones that started the BCS," ACC commissioner John Swofford said. "That's who the bowls wanted. That's who television wanted."

The conference commissioner with the biggest smile on Wednesday was the Mountain West's Craig Thompson. His nine-team league — think Utah, BYU and starting this fall TCU — covets an automatic berth.

"I think this is a very progressive step," Thompson said of the new automatic qualification standards. "Now it's up to us to produce."

Also Wednesday, the BCS changed the way it handles Notre Dame, a football independent.

Beginning with the 2006 season, Notre Dame gets an automatic BCS berth if it finishes in the top eight in the BCS standings and is eligible for consideration if it finishes in the top 12.

Notre Dame also gets a yearly payoff from the BCS even if it doesn't play in a BCS game. That payoff will be similar to what a member of a BCS conference would receive, a bit over $1 million a year. If Notre Dame appears in a BCS game, it will receive what an at-large team from a BCS conference would earn, about $4.5 million. In the past, Notre Dame got $14 million when it appeared in a BCS game and nothing when it didn't.

Also, starting in 2006, there's a new qualification provision for leagues that don't have automatic berths. A champion from one of those leagues is guaranteed a BCS spot is it finishes in the top 12 of the BCS standings or if it finishes in the top 16 and above the lowest-ranked champion in a league with an automatic berth.

With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12. What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name? Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football or help?Does it favor Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them... No clear answers on expansion??

Well technically Temple had a huge market but was a total bust.

What good is a big market if the team doesn't draw from it?

With the 12th game being added and NOW this "other" BCS bowl, there is no reason to not have a playoff. Teams will be playing close to 14-15 games now ANYWAYS.

Quote:Does it favor Temple back in as a player

-- I was thinking that too....it seems the trick is to have "markets" that no other conferene can bring adds to your value and bringing Philly certainly wouldn't hurt.....perhaps that is why Temple was one of the schools very strongly considered in the BE papers of 2003....If the Owls would offer the BE football schools some kind of gurantee about how much money they would be willing to put into there football program on a yearly basis I could see Temple coming back on board


Jackson

Forget about Temple--think Nova

Give then 5 years as an affliated independant they bring them in as a full time member in 2010 assuming they get a stadium of at least 35-40,000.

I guess that the SEC is in trouble since so many of their schools are located in small markets?

CardinalJim Wrote:

The Knight Time Wrote:Couple points:

What exactly does market size have to do with the football team you put on a field? Nothing.

Secondly, the MWC is campaigning on Utah's success, yet the entire league behind them was really down last year.

Market size has always been important to the BCS. The BCS pay outs are based on advertising dollars. Two thirds of the nations population resides in Big East markets. Did those in CUSA predicting the demise of the Big East really believe that the BCS would simply walk away from this market share. How could the BCS justify what it demands from advertisers and broadcasters if the Northeast corridor was not part of the agreement. This is just another example of what those from USF, UC and UofL have been saying all along about the reasons the Big East won't lose its bid.

Yes the Northeast Corridor or Megalopolis or BosWash or BosNyWash, whatever you wish to call it. This is the single most important set of media markets in the country for the BCS. We have too much money, too many people, and the networks have their headquarters in New York. Philadelphia needs a quality 1-A Football Team and it needs it in the BCS. Sure its Penn State country but an exciting Temple or Villanova (as a 1-A) would probably capture plenty of attention. Then again it could be argued Rutgers could capture the attention of the market too if we were consistently good especially as the Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City CMSA and the New York - New Jersey -Long Island - Connecticut CMSA blur together more and more. However I'd prefer a travel partner and natural rival like Temple to be on board. However, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are really included in the devloping ChiPitts Megalopolis, which stretches from Chicago to Pittsburgh and includes Indianapolis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, etc. So Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are also very important markets. Tampa is a high growth area so South Florida is important as well.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:I guess that the SEC is in trouble since so many of their schools are located in small markets?

All of them except Vandy are Flagship schools and thus carry the whole state. CUSA, MWC and to a lessor degree the Big East are not Flagship schools. So the markets they penetrate are important.

The Knight Time Wrote:Couple points:

What exactly does market size have to do with the football team you put on a field? Nothing.

Secondly, the MWC is campaigning on Utah's success, yet the entire league behind them was really down last year.

Go back to your board and read about the Liberty Bowl's decision to take any team it wants from CUSA instead of being stuck with the champion. Many arguments made by CUSA fans that defend the LB decision would apply in the BCS case as well. I think its a fairly simple concept.

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12. What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name? Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football or help?Does it favor Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them... No clear answers on expansion??

huh?

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name? &nbsp; Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001 for football only. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

GreenBison Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name?   Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

Good Points

I'm sure ECU and Memphis could find a home for their teams in the interim--A-10, CAA, MAC if they were invited to be the 9th team.

GreenBison Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name?   Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001 for football only. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

You make some decent points but consider what Marshall has to offer those lesser conferences as opposed to lets say Memphis. Memphis could go to the CAA for a few years and bring them some television revenue and a few NCAA tournament units not to mention invaluable exposure. MU basketball is cannon fodder, there isnt much incentive in your olympic sports either.

TexanMark Wrote:

GreenBison Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name?   Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

Good Points

I'm sure ECU and Memphis could find a home for their teams in the interim--A-10, CAA, MAC if they were invited to be the 9th team.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't really know anything about the A-10, the CAA is still pissed about ECU leaving in basketball a couple of years ago, the MAC already has 12 teams and talk of adding 2 more (Temple and WKU).

L-yes Wrote:

GreenBison Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:With market size now a factor what does this do to the list of possibles if CUSA goes to nine or 12.  What happens if we split later do we lose our history as the Big East? If we did we could never leave the conference totally. Maybe we will be looking at two conferences all under one larger Big East name?   Does this go against say ECU as the seemingly next in line for football  or help?Does it favor  Temple back in as a player. You could have one that has better market but another that has better overall numbers? Who has market and a  chance for success maybe that is then Memphis? ECu and Temple would play football only
though and Memphis would not...Marshall would play football only but then the market size hurts them...  No clear answers on expansion??

Our market size isn't as small as you think. It's ranked 64th nationally, I know some WVU fans will say it's an overlapping market with theirs but the same thing can be said of Pitt's & WVU's market. Anyway, want I wanted to say is that there is also the intangible of National Excitement each team brings. I don't know what the numbers would be for that but I assume ESPN and the Networks have the numbers.

For instance say you live in Missouri and you're scanning the channels looking for a game and your team isn't playing. You find three games on TV... Toledo vs Bowling Green... Duke vs. NC State... and Florida vs. Vanderbilt. Which do you think most of the people will tune into watch? My point is it's not just your market it's also how many viewers you can bring in when you're broadcast nationally.

I find it hard to believe that Memphis and or ECU would play football only in the BE. Where would their other sports go? It's not easy to ask for admittance into another conference when they know full well that sooner or later you'll be moving again as soon as Memphis and or ECU can get their Basketball and Olympic sports into a better conference. That's the problem we ran into when we tried to join C-USA in 2001 for football only. We approached the So-Con, OVC and the CAA. None of them would agree to adding us cause they new as soon as we got the invite into C-USA for all sports we'd take it.

You make some decent points but consider what Marshall has to offer those lesser conferences as opposed to lets say Memphis. Memphis could go to the CAA for a few years and bring them some television revenue and a few NCAA tournament units not to mention invaluable exposure. MU basketball is cannon fodder, there isnt much incentive in your olympic sports either.

Memphis might be able to pull it off I guess. Actually no conference will find incentive in adding any schools' Olympic sports. Olympic sports are a loss leader anyway. Oh, our women's softball and tennis teams are excellent, but everything else is mediocre with room for improvement.