(11-21-2011 11:50 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:36 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 08:09 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  One option being discussed by the BCS is having the BCS be responsible only for matching the #1 and #2 teams---Nothing else. There would be no AQ's. The bowls would be free to select whomever they wish. Under that senario, many bowls would seek to tie themsleves to various conferences to gain the rights to the conference champion or runner-ups. These agreements, would essentially function as AQ's. Most of the major conferences have a historical tie to a major bowl. If this system comes to pass, what are the Big Easts options for a major bowl?

Essentially, we don't have one. No major bowl would want a Big East tie-in and Notre Dame would have no incentive to affiliate with us for that purpose.

Lol...Dude, lighten up, you remind me of Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. Hopefully, should the BCS return to the old system of bowl selection, the BE can get their champion a slot in a decent bowl.

Wow. That fits him so incredibly well. Nicely played.

(11-22-2011 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I loved the old bowl system I grew up with in the Sixties and Seventies.

Scrapping this BCS/AQ crap will work just fine as far as I am concerned.

My only (unreasonable) hope is that there would be NO automatic conference tie ins to particular bowls.

That way, more interesting intersectional matchups can take place in bowl games.

I've always hated bowl tie-ins to the conferences. They prevent a lot very good games from happening every year...

The bowls should be able to setup the best matchups every year. Not just the best matchups between the conferences they're affiliated with...

FWIW, even if the BCs only is #1 and #2, I still see some sort of bowl alliance between the Fiesta, Cotton, Sugar and ORange to ensure a variety of matchups. Assuming Rose is separate with Big 10 #1 versus PAC10 #1, you have the following anchors:

Fiesta- no anchor
Cotton- Big 12 #1
Sugar- SEC #1
Orange- ACC #1

Other 5 spots are:
Big 10 #2
PAC 12 #2
Big 12 #2
BE champ/ND
SEC #2

Fiesta always picks first, the other 4 at larges are rotated.

Or could have "hard" tie ins as such:

Fiesta- PAC12 #2 vs Big 12 #2
Cotton- Big 12 #1 vs SEC #2
Sugar- SEC #1 vs Big 10 #2
Orange- ACC #1 vs BE/ND

Orange probably doesn't like that arrangement. Might prefer SEC #3.

I think the

Under a "survival of the fittest" bowl scenario the Big East would not have Notre Dame to offer up as so many of you are stating. They would be free to negotiate as an independent with any bowl they wanted. Why would the Orange bowl for instance risk having to take Uconn in order to get Notre Dame twice every four years when they will be open to take Notre Dame whenever the hell they want? It only made sense in the past because the BCS bowls had to take a Big East Champ...that will no longer be the case.

If it went back to the old way, I wonder if that would make it really go back to the old way, where some of the bowls more or less have relatively few ties ins (maybe only one anchor). FI so, if what same think is true that Texas or one or two other teams want to go Indy for football, there is their opportunity. I am very surprused that the Big XII would support this idea as it clears the way for Texas to go Independent, if that is indeed their desire. They would no longer have a need for the conference's tie in (again, if several major bwols kept one slot open like in the 70's and 80's. If so, it would not only kill the superconference thing that some think is inevitable dead in its tracks, but now you might see some major schools go indy.

(11-22-2011 12:22 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

So would this mean, in some years the BE champ might be replaced by Notre Dame, should the Champs Bowl so desire?

I would guess so. I don't see why Champs would want to change that arrangement.

(11-22-2011 01:10 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

Your negativity knows no end. Seriously, who peed in your cereal again? Then again, I think you are just being your normal self.

Put it this way, no other power conference would share a Big Bowl bid with ND. BE is the only partner for ND and vice versa. You really believe BE plus ND can't land a big bowl?

You didn't read carefully, as i didn't say the BE plus ND couldn't land a big bowl. What i said is that Notre Dame doesn't need a conference partner for a BCS bowl bid, so why would it choose to bundle itself with the Big East when it has existed for 13 seasons without a conference partner? No reason to think that won't continue.

So the real issue is: Can the Big East land a big bowl? And the answer seems obvious: No.

Sorry if that reality disturbs you ...

(11-22-2011 06:34 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Forget the gators. Jacksonville stinks and they would not go for that deal. The outback might be hard to get but as USF grows there could be enough community pressure for it to happen. That's what happened with the OB

So which conference, the B1G or SEC (which happen to be the most desirable conferences from a TV perspective) do you think the Outback would boot out to make way for a Big East team?

(11-22-2011 10:19 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I loved the old bowl system I grew up with in the Sixties and Seventies.

Scrapping this BCS/AQ crap will work just fine as far as I am concerned.

My only (unreasonable) hope is that there would be NO automatic conference tie ins to particular bowls.

That way, more interesting intersectional matchups can take place in bowl games.

I've always hated bowl tie-ins to the conferences. They prevent a lot very good games from happening every year...

I like the traditional, pre-BCS, tie-ins, but only for the BCS bowls. What really irks me is that over the past 20 years ALL the bowls have developed tie-ins, which has made things really boring. Why on earth should the freaking Music City Bowl always match up SEC #6 vs ACC #5 or something? It's silly.

(11-22-2011 11:02 AM)snowycuse Wrote:  Under a "survival of the fittest" bowl scenario the Big East would not have Notre Dame to offer up as so many of you are stating. They would be free to negotiate as an independent with any bowl they wanted. Why would the Orange bowl for instance risk having to take Uconn in order to get Notre Dame twice every four years when they will be open to take Notre Dame whenever the hell they want? It only made sense in the past because the BCS bowls had to take a Big East Champ...that will no longer be the case.

Exactly. And yet this reality, that Notre Dame has no incentive to align itself with the Big East for a BCS bowl bid, is not sinking in around here.

In fact, Notre Dame has never been aligned with the Big East for a BCS bowl bid. Notre Dame is only aligned with us for the lower-tier bowls.

Anyone who thinks that Notre Dame will give up its power to play in any of the major bowls is fooling themselves.

In the end this is going to be a moot point.

AQ's in the end are not going away, just think about it for a minute. In order to change the system it requires the approval of all 11 BCS Conferences. So the MWC, C-USA, WAC, MAC and Sunbelt are going to vote to go back to the "Old System" in which they would in most cases be shut out of a $22 Million payday...really!!!!

The BIG EAST & probably the ACC will not go along with it either unless they get a big case of the "stupid". Outside of Florida State, Virginia Tech & Clemson those are the only schools that actually travel in mass to bowl games. And with all 3 of those schools future SEC targets-(the Vandy Prez did say he can see the SEC going to 16) they could be shut out as well.

More then likely you will see a tweaking of the system again, the Cotton Bowl is elevated to BCS Status and no limit on conferences gaining @ Large BCS Bids.

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

Your answer is truthful as it stands now, but the no one loves us part is just defeatist. If the Big East consistently sends a top 10 team in the future, there's no reason the Orange Bowl couldn't be signed as a tie-in. This not per me, this per the Orange Bowl reps I talked to last weekend. Of course, this is his opinion, and contains an if. But the point is, if the BE improves it will happen.

(11-22-2011 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 01:10 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

Your negativity knows no end. Seriously, who peed in your cereal again? Then again, I think you are just being your normal self.

Put it this way, no other power conference would share a Big Bowl bid with ND. BE is the only partner for ND and vice versa. You really believe BE plus ND can't land a big bowl? Really? Man, what did USF do to deserve a fan like you anyway?

I will say this though, if we go back to the old bowl system we might have set college football back 25 years. There is no way average fans would want that. It would suck royally.

I loved the old bowl system I grew up with in the Sixties and Seventies.

Scrapping this BCS/AQ crap will work just fine as far as I am concerned.

My only (unreasonable) hope is that there would be NO automatic conference tie ins to particular bowls.

That way, more interesting intersectional matchups can take place in bowl games.

I'm sure you did, as you had places to go. Other schools not so much. I remember being an independent, ranked 9th in the country and going to the Bluebonnet bowl or nothing.

(11-22-2011 11:56 AM)Maize Wrote:  In the end this is going to be a moot point.

AQ's in the end are not going away, just think about it for a minute. In order to change the system it requires the approval of all 11 BCS Conferences. So the MWC, C-USA, WAC, MAC and Sunbelt are going to vote to go back to the "Old System" in which they would in most cases be shut out of a $22 Million payday...really!!!!

The BIG EAST & probably the ACC will not go along with it either unless they get a big case of the "stupid". Outside of Florida State, Virginia Tech & Clemson those are the only schools that actually travel in mass to bowl games. And with all 3 of those schools future SEC targets-(the Vandy Prez did say he can see the SEC going to 16) they could be shut out as well.

More then likely you will see a tweaking of the system again, the Cotton Bowl is elevated to BCS Status and no limit on conferences gaining @ Large BCS Bids.

In order to change "the system" it would need approval of everyone. The issue is that nobody is bound to any system starting in 2014. If the Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac 12 no longer want to deal with the BCS as is they do not have to and the Mac, Big East, and ACC are powerless to stop them. The BCS is not the NCAA there is no singular power to dictate anything. What you could be voting on is that the BCS becomes a 1 vs 2 only and if they do not agree on it than the BCS is scrapped and it is what it was prior to the BCS system.

(11-22-2011 11:56 AM)Maize Wrote:  So the MWC, C-USA, WAC, MAC and Sunbelt are going to vote to go back to the "Old System" in which they would in most cases be shut out of a $22 Million payday...really!!!!

Those conferences do not get a $22 million payday anyway. The non-ACQ conferences get far less than the ACQ do.However, a point to be made, none of those bowls paid out anything close to that amount of money prior to joining the BCS. Think about it, the next highest paying bowl pays out $4 million per team. Do you think those bowls will continue paying that much when they don't have to?

(11-22-2011 01:01 PM)snowycuse Wrote:  . If the Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac 12 no longer want to deal with the BCS as is they do not have to and the Mac, Big East, and ACC are powerless to stop them.

Funny how this comes up the year after the Rose Bowl had to take a non-ACQ, and the same year the Big Ten may not have a second team eligible for an at-large bid

(11-22-2011 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 01:10 AM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

Your negativity knows no end. Seriously, who peed in your cereal again? Then again, I think you are just being your normal self.

Put it this way, no other power conference would share a Big Bowl bid with ND. BE is the only partner for ND and vice versa. You really believe BE plus ND can't land a big bowl? Really? Man, what did USF do to deserve a fan like you anyway?

I will say this though, if we go back to the old bowl system we might have set college football back 25 years. There is no way average fans would want that. It would suck royally.

I loved the old bowl system I grew up with in the Sixties and Seventies.

Scrapping this BCS/AQ crap will work just fine as far as I am concerned.

My only (unreasonable) hope is that there would be NO automatic conference tie ins to particular bowls.

That way, more interesting intersectional matchups can take place in bowl games.

I'm all for that. Sadly, I don't see it happening. We all know the B1G and the Pac-12 want to remain affiliated with the Rose Bowl and vice versa.

(11-22-2011 01:01 PM)snowycuse Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 11:56 AM)Maize Wrote:  In the end this is going to be a moot point.

AQ's in the end are not going away, just think about it for a minute. In order to change the system it requires the approval of all 11 BCS Conferences. So the MWC, C-USA, WAC, MAC and Sunbelt are going to vote to go back to the "Old System" in which they would in most cases be shut out of a $22 Million payday...really!!!!

The BIG EAST & probably the ACC will not go along with it either unless they get a big case of the "stupid". Outside of Florida State, Virginia Tech & Clemson those are the only schools that actually travel in mass to bowl games. And with all 3 of those schools future SEC targets-(the Vandy Prez did say he can see the SEC going to 16) they could be shut out as well.

More then likely you will see a tweaking of the system again, the Cotton Bowl is elevated to BCS Status and no limit on conferences gaining @ Large BCS Bids.

In order to change "the system" it would need approval of everyone. The issue is that nobody is bound to any system starting in 2014. If the Rose Bowl, Big Ten, and Pac 12 no longer want to deal with the BCS as is they do not have to and the Mac, Big East, and ACC are powerless to stop them. The BCS is not the NCAA there is no singular power to dictate anything. What you could be voting on is that the BCS becomes a 1 vs 2 only and if they do not agree on it than the BCS is scrapped and it is what it was prior to the BCS system.

Bill Hancock was on Siruis yesterday and they brought this up...from what he said it is basically 1 conference that is suggesting this while their are dozens of other purposals on the table.

What I do find interesting is that instead of the other purposals being talked about this is the one that is getting the media play-(ESpiN).

Yes, you are correct that it takes everyone involved to change the system but in the end just my opinion is that their will be some changes to the current system but nothing this dramatic as the doing away with AQs.

The 3 that have been put out there:

1. Doing away with the AQs and just concentrating on 1 vs. 2
2. Doing away with AQs and just have the Top 10 receiving AQ Bids
3. Current system with some tweaking.

I am fine with 2 and 3. 1 would have such a negetive impact on anyone not in the Big 1G, SEC, Pac 12 and to a certain extent Big XII and absolutely the ACC/BIG EAST I just can't see that happening. Not to mention the affect it would have on the current Non AQ leagues.

(11-22-2011 11:56 AM)Maize Wrote:  In the end this is going to be a moot point.

AQ's in the end are not going away, just think about it for a minute. In order to change the system it requires the approval of all 11 BCS Conferences. So the MWC, C-USA, WAC, MAC and Sunbelt are going to vote to go back to the "Old System" in which they would in most cases be shut out of a $22 Million payday...really!!!!

The BIG EAST & probably the ACC will not go along with it either unless they get a big case of the "stupid".

You are mistaken if you think the real power conferences have enmeshed themselves in a system that allows themselves to be ruled by the non-AQ conferences plus the Big East as long as those can muster 6 votes. Nothing could be further from the truth. When the BCS contract expires, the mechanism for establishing a new regime expires with it.

Bottom line: After 2013, the B1G, SEC, Pac12, etc. will NOT need the approval of any other conferences to establish a new regime with the bowls, since the "6 vote requirement" is itself a part of the BCS contract that will now have expired.

(11-22-2011 12:02 PM)splitstud Wrote:  

(11-22-2011 12:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 11:53 PM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:  

(11-21-2011 10:31 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Wasn't the Gator Bowl willing to be the Big East AQ bowl if they were added to the BCS lineup? Anyway, if the AQ really does go away, time to invite Memphis and wrangle the Liberty Bowl.

The Liberty Bowl has a smaller payouts than the Champs Bowl and the Pinstripe Bowl, and the current matchups (CUSA#1 or SEC8/9) would be pretty bad for the conference champion. If the Big East can no longer guarantee their champion a BCS Bowl, I'd like to see us send our champ to the Gator or Outback Bowl.

I'd like to see that too, but which SEC or B1G team would those bowls kick out to make way for our champion? Answer: None of them.

In all probability, our champ would end up where our top non-BCS qualifier goes right now: to the Champs Sports Bowl, shared with Notre Dame of course.

Your answer is truthful as it stands now, but the no one loves us part is just defeatist. If the Big East consistently sends a top 10 team in the future, there's no reason the Orange Bowl couldn't be signed as a tie-in. This not per me, this per the Orange Bowl reps I talked to last weekend. Of course, this is his opinion, and contains an if. But the point is, if the BE improves it will happen.

Yes, if the Big East suddenly starts being as good on the field as the other major conferences, and if our schools develop commensurate TV and travel appeal as well, then the Big East will be desired by the BCS bowls.

But, those are awfully big "ifs", and we are far, far away from that right now. So as it stands, no major bowl would want to affiliate with the Big East. Maybe years from now, but not now.

The Big East should either work with Gator or Holiday Bowl as a landing spot for its champion if the AQ status goes away. Also, they should look at having a Texas based bowl agreement as well it will help with recruiting for all members.