Here is the deal the major Bowls will be
National Championship bowl
Rose- Big Ten vs Pac12
Sugar- SEC
Orange- ACC
Fiesta-
Cotton- I see Jerry's world making the Cotton a heavy hitter again and getting the Big12 champ
That leaves the Fiesta looking for two, SUgar, Cotton and Orange looking for one more team.
So you have those bowwls either looking at champions of leagues outside the main 5 or #2 and in some cases #3 from the Five leagues with bowls tie ins.
I would say that the Big East champion with ND aboard would be aa attractice in most years as a #3 from one of those leagues. Remember you are matching a league chamipon of those leagues in three of those cases.
I think the Big East can work a deal with the Orange and Fiesta as follows.
#1 If the Big East champion is from the East it goes to Orange Bowl and the Fiesta has a choice of Notre dame- West champion or at large team
#2 If the Big East champion is from thee west it goes to Fiesta Bowl and the Orange can choose between ND- East champion or at large team

This deal would give our champion a bid in eithe Fiesta or Orange Bowl yearly and tie in Notre dame to either of those two bowls should they have a good season. It would satisfy those two bowls because neither would get the loser of the BE league championship and neither would have to take a team from far away. Boise winning the BE would play in Fiesta, UConn winning BE would play in Orange

(11-23-2011 10:14 AM)texassouthern1992 Wrote:  The Big East should either work with Gator or Holiday Bowl as a landing spot for its champion if the AQ status goes away. Also, they should look at having a Texas based bowl agreement as well it will help with recruiting for all members.

I agree, but the Gator is out because no way would they give up their SEC/B1G match-up. Holiday is a good possibility, especially if we have western teams.

Maybe we could have shared arrangement with Holiday and Champs, with the Big East champ going to Champs if it is an east-coast team, and to Holiday if it is a west-coast team? The other bowl would get the runner-up ...

(11-23-2011 11:02 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Here is the deal the major Bowls will be
National Championship bowl
Rose- Big Ten vs Pac12
Sugar- SEC
Orange- ACC
Fiesta-
Cotton- I see Jerry's world making the Cotton a heavy hitter again and getting the Big12 champ
That leaves the Fiesta looking for two, SUgar, Cotton and Orange looking for one more team.
So you have those bowwls either looking at champions of leagues outside the main 5 or #2 and in some cases #3 from the Five leagues with bowls tie ins.
I would say that the Big East champion with ND aboard would be aa attractice in most years as a #3 from one of those leagues. Remember you are matching a league chamipon of those leagues in three of those cases.
I think the Big East can work a deal with the Orange and Fiesta as follows.
#1 If the Big East champion is from the East it goes to Orange Bowl and the Fiesta has a choice of Notre dame- West champion or at large team
#2 If the Big East champion is from thee west it goes to Fiesta Bowl and the Orange can choose between ND- East champion or at large team

This deal would give our champion a bid in either Fiesta or Orange Bowl yearly and tie in Notre dame to either of those two bowls should they have a good season.

Cuban, i would take issue with your scenario. The only way i see that the Orange or Fiesta would be willing to make an arrangement with the Big East is if Notre Dame is bundled in with us. But, Notre Dame has no incentive at all to bundle with us because as you say that would "tie in" Notre Dame to one of those two bowls, and Notre Dame wouldn't want to limit itself, it would want to be able to play in the Sugar Bowl as well.

Especially under your scenario, which if i understand correctly would actually make Notre Dame inferior to the Big East champ: the BEast champ would automatically get a bid to either the Fiesta or Orange, but Notre Dame would merely be an option for the other bowl with no special status at all, they would just be a possible at-large selection, which is what they would be even without a Big East tie-in.

The odds that Notre Dame would agree to any type of BCS-bowl arrangement seems extremely slim to me, simply because they have no need to tie themselves to the Big East. There's just nothing in it for them and yet they'd be enhancing Big East access to a BCS bowl (which they have no incentive to do so since they might want to go to the same BCS bowl themselves), while also tying themselves down to particular bowls, and getting nothing in return.

With SDSU maybe coming on board, I wonder if the Holiday might be in play? The bowl was created for the WAC with the intent of SDSU playing in it most years but unfortunately we didn't come through on our end of the bargain. Maybe have the Big East #2 or #3 replace the #5 Big 12.

I belive their contract runs through 2013.

(11-23-2011 12:18 PM)k5james Wrote:  With SDSU maybe coming on board, I wonder if the Holiday might be in play? The bowl was created for the WAC with the intent of SDSU playing in it most years but unfortunately we didn't come through on our end of the bargain. Maybe have the Big East #2 or #3 replace the #5 Big 12.

I don't think there's any chance the Holiday would be interested in replacing Big12 #5 with anything but our champion.

Maybe we could have a bi-coastal arrangement with Holiday and Champs to take our champion, depending on whether it is a west or east coast team ...

(11-23-2011 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 12:18 PM)k5james Wrote:  With SDSU maybe coming on board, I wonder if the Holiday might be in play? The bowl was created for the WAC with the intent of SDSU playing in it most years but unfortunately we didn't come through on our end of the bargain. Maybe have the Big East #2 or #3 replace the #5 Big 12.

I don't think there's any chance the Holiday would be interested in replacing Big12 #5 with anything but our champion.

Maybe we could have a bi-coastal arrangement with Holiday and Champs to take our champion, depending on whether it is a west or east coast team ...

Are KSU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, West Virginia, really any more attractive than the Big East #2 or #3?

(11-23-2011 12:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 11:02 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Here is the deal the major Bowls will be
National Championship bowl
Rose- Big Ten vs Pac12
Sugar- SEC
Orange- ACC
Fiesta-
Cotton- I see Jerry's world making the Cotton a heavy hitter again and getting the Big12 champ
That leaves the Fiesta looking for two, SUgar, Cotton and Orange looking for one more team.
So you have those bowwls either looking at champions of leagues outside the main 5 or #2 and in some cases #3 from the Five leagues with bowls tie ins.
I would say that the Big East champion with ND aboard would be aa attractice in most years as a #3 from one of those leagues. Remember you are matching a league chamipon of those leagues in three of those cases.
I think the Big East can work a deal with the Orange and Fiesta as follows.
#1 If the Big East champion is from the East it goes to Orange Bowl and the Fiesta has a choice of Notre dame- West champion or at large team
#2 If the Big East champion is from thee west it goes to Fiesta Bowl and the Orange can choose between ND- East champion or at large team

This deal would give our champion a bid in either Fiesta or Orange Bowl yearly and tie in Notre dame to either of those two bowls should they have a good season.

Cuban, i would take issue with your scenario. The only way i see that the Orange or Fiesta would be willing to make an arrangement with the Big East is if Notre Dame is bundled in with us. But, Notre Dame has no incentive at all to bundle with us because as you say that would "tie in" Notre Dame to one of those two bowls, and Notre Dame wouldn't want to limit itself, it would want to be able to play in the Sugar Bowl as well.

Especially under your scenario, which if i understand correctly would actually make Notre Dame inferior to the Big East champ: the BEast champ would automatically get a bid to either the Fiesta or Orange, but Notre Dame would merely be an option for the other bowl with no special status at all, they would just be a possible at-large selection, which is what they would be even without a Big East tie-in.

The odds that Notre Dame would agree to any type of BCS-bowl arrangement seems extremely slim to me, simply because they have no need to tie themselves to the Big East. There's just nothing in it for them and yet they'd be enhancing Big East access to a BCS bowl (which they have no incentive to do so since they might want to go to the same BCS bowl themselves), while also tying themselves down to particular bowls, and getting nothing in return.

Actually, listening to ESPN yesterday under the every conference for itself ND could be forced to join a league because the Sugar Bowl with the SEC, the Orange Bowl-(maybe with the ACC or the Number 2 SEC School) & the Fiesta Bowl-(maybe with the Number 2 Pac 12 school or Number 2 Big XII school) with the Cotton Bowl going to the Big XII Champ would be kinda frozen out of the $$$$ Bowls.

Under that scenario they could see ND hooking up with the ACC or doing a Bowl partnership with the BIG EAST much like Cuban suggested.

(11-23-2011 12:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  Actually, listening to ESPN yesterday under the every conference for itself ND could be forced to join a league because the Sugar Bowl with the SEC, the Orange Bowl-(maybe with the ACC or the Number 2 SEC School) & the Fiesta Bowl-(maybe with the Number 2 Pac 12 school or Number 2 Big XII school) with the Cotton Bowl going to the Big XII Champ would be kinda frozen out of the $$$$ Bowls.

Under that scenario they could see ND hooking up with the ACC or doing a Bowl partnership with the BIG EAST much like Cuban suggested.

Maize, we can all speculate about scenarios until the sun goes down, but i can't see any scenarios in which the major bowls would tie themselves to anything but the champions of conferences ahead of Notre Dame. E.g., while the Orange Bowl would be willing to tie itself to ACC #1 or SEC #1 or somesuch, no way would the Orange Bowl tie itself to taking SEC #2 if that meant it would be screening out an independent Notre Dame.

In fact, such a scenario wouldn't be "every conference for itself", since it would involve even MORE tie-ins between the BCS bowls and the conferences than is characteristic of the current BCS system. Any post-BCS system that still is bowl-based will have either the same or fewer formal conference tie-ins.

In just about any scenario i can imagine, Notre Dame would be what it always has been - independent, with opportunities to accept bids to the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, and Cotton, if that too is elevated to BCS level. And, in the very unlikely event that Notre Dame is somehow forced to join a conference in order to be eligible for a BCS bowl, then there's little to no chance it would choose to join or align itself with the Big East, when it could always do so with conferences like the B1G or ACC.

(11-23-2011 01:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 12:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  Actually, listening to ESPN yesterday under the every conference for itself ND could be forced to join a league because the Sugar Bowl with the SEC, the Orange Bowl-(maybe with the ACC or the Number 2 SEC School) & the Fiesta Bowl-(maybe with the Number 2 Pac 12 school or Number 2 Big XII school) with the Cotton Bowl going to the Big XII Champ would be kinda frozen out of the $$$$ Bowls.

Under that scenario they could see ND hooking up with the ACC or doing a Bowl partnership with the BIG EAST much like Cuban suggested.

Maize, we can all speculate about scenarios until the sun goes down, but i can't see any scenarios in which the major bowls would tie themselves to anything but the champions of conferences ahead of Notre Dame. E.g., while the Orange Bowl would be willing to tie itself to ACC #1 or SEC #1 or somesuch, no way would the Orange Bowl tie itself to taking SEC #2 if that meant it would be screening out an independent Notre Dame.

In fact, such a scenario wouldn't be "every conference for itself", since it would involve even MORE tie-ins between the BCS bowls and the conferences than is characteristic of the current BCS system. Any post-BCS system that still is bowl-based will have either the same or fewer formal conference tie-ins.

In just about any scenario i can imagine, Notre Dame would be what it always has been - independent, with opportunities to accept bids to the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, and Cotton, if that too is elevated to BCS level. And, in the very unlikely event that Notre Dame is somehow forced to join a conference in order to be eligible for a BCS bowl, then there's little to no chance it would choose to join or align itself with the Big East, when it could always do so with conferences like the B1G or ACC.

I'm not the one "suggesting" it but those "so-called" in the know and had discussions with Bowl execs....ND very well under the every conference for itself very well could be forced to join the ACC or do an arrangement with the BIG EAST as a 2nd choice.

Look @ it like this, right now the bowl could get just as high of TV ratings/ticket sales with the Number 2 or 3 Big 1G, Big XII-(UT-Austin, Oklahoma) & Pac 12.

They are pretty much saying the same as Cuban is saying except Cuban left out the ACC angle. But I forget you didn't see the SEC adding Missouri either-(just mess'n with u).

(11-23-2011 01:20 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 01:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 12:30 PM)Maize Wrote:  Actually, listening to ESPN yesterday under the every conference for itself ND could be forced to join a league because the Sugar Bowl with the SEC, the Orange Bowl-(maybe with the ACC or the Number 2 SEC School) & the Fiesta Bowl-(maybe with the Number 2 Pac 12 school or Number 2 Big XII school) with the Cotton Bowl going to the Big XII Champ would be kinda frozen out of the $$$$ Bowls.

Under that scenario they could see ND hooking up with the ACC or doing a Bowl partnership with the BIG EAST much like Cuban suggested.

Maize, we can all speculate about scenarios until the sun goes down, but i can't see any scenarios in which the major bowls would tie themselves to anything but the champions of conferences ahead of Notre Dame. E.g., while the Orange Bowl would be willing to tie itself to ACC #1 or SEC #1 or somesuch, no way would the Orange Bowl tie itself to taking SEC #2 if that meant it would be screening out an independent Notre Dame.

In fact, such a scenario wouldn't be "every conference for itself", since it would involve even MORE tie-ins between the BCS bowls and the conferences than is characteristic of the current BCS system. Any post-BCS system that still is bowl-based will have either the same or fewer formal conference tie-ins.

In just about any scenario i can imagine, Notre Dame would be what it always has been - independent, with opportunities to accept bids to the Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, and Cotton, if that too is elevated to BCS level. And, in the very unlikely event that Notre Dame is somehow forced to join a conference in order to be eligible for a BCS bowl, then there's little to no chance it would choose to join or align itself with the Big East, when it could always do so with conferences like the B1G or ACC.

I'm not the one "suggesting" it but those "so-called" in the know and had discussions with Bowl execs....ND very well under the every conference for itself very well could be forced to join the ACC or do an arrangement with the BIG EAST as a 2nd choice.

Look @ it like this, right now the bowl could get just as high of TV ratings/ticket sales with the Number 2 or 3 Big 1G, Big XII-(UT-Austin, Oklahoma) & Pac 12.

They are pretty much saying the same as Cuban is saying except Cuban left out the ACC angle. But I forget you didn't see the SEC adding Missouri either-(just mess'n with u).

Right, i thought the SEC was stupid to add Mizzou and still do, but i didn't discount them not doing so since they seemed hell-bent on it for who knows what reason. OTOH, i was right about BYU's television contract being a big stumbling-block to BEast membership when most everyone here was saying it was nothing like Texas, etc. So we all speculate and sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong, including the ESPN talking-head analysts.

These major bowls love having Notre Dame, history proves that. If Notre Dame were 11-1 or 10-2 right now, they'd love to have them this year too. I don't see any likely scenario in which ND is forced to do anything it doesn't want to do as far as joining conferences are concerned (that's been a constant over all these different bowl formats), and even if it did, it wouldn't align with the Big East, because it could align/join other conferences it would find more desirable.

I guess we'll find out ...

Well if we go back to the old arrangements the Rose is out for ND and if they joined ACC or BigTen it would be orange or rose so by doing that arrangement with big east they would have more flexibility in bowl choices

(11-23-2011 02:01 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Well if we go back to the old arrangements the Rose is out for ND and if they joined ACC or BigTen it would be orange or rose so by doing that arrangement with big east they would have more flexibility in bowl choices

Notre Dame has no incentive to tie their BCS bowl chances to the Big East's or anyone else's. They maintain maximum flexibility by staying independent. That way, only the Rose is off limits.

Why not strike a deal with the Fiesta and Orange.

If the winner comes from the West sans UCF but including Navy goes to the Fiesta.
If the winner comes from the East the Orange Bowl but including UCF.

(11-23-2011 09:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 02:01 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Well if we go back to the old arrangements the Rose is out for ND and if they joined ACC or BigTen it would be orange or rose so by doing that arrangement with big east they would have more flexibility in bowl choices

Notre Dame has no incentive to tie their BCS bowl chances to the Big East's or anyone else's. They maintain maximum flexibility by staying independent. That way, only the Rose is off limits.

Here is the problem they could be facing:

Sugar Bowl is going to be SEC, who is to say the Number 2 Big 1G also has a tie in with the Sugar Bowl.

Orange Bowl probably will stick with the ACC, in this environment-(SEC has the Number 1, 2 & 3 schools) who is to say the SEC Number 3 goes to the Orange Bowl. Now on to the Fiesta Bowl and let's say the Number 2 Big XII-(most years either Texas or Oklahoma) goes their while the Number 1 goes to the Cotton Bowl. Not out of the realm that the Number 2 Pac 12 goes to the Fiesta while the Number 3 Big 1G goes to the Cotton Bowl.

This is what they were talking about on ESPN. Notre Dame with the every conference for themselves model could very well be screwed and this would be the Seismic shift Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick is/was talking about in regards to ND joining a league.

Most years the top 3 out of the Big 1G are going to be Ohio State, Michigan and either Wisconsin, Nebraska or Penn State. All 5 have National followings.

The SEC could throw out a Louisiana State, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee & Auburn and Bowl Committees would be drooling.

The Pac 12 has Southern Cal & Oregon is hot. Plus UW has been strong in the past as well.

Big XII has Texas & Oklahoma to present to Bowls. Not to mention the ACC with Florida State.

(11-23-2011 11:53 PM)FULL_MONTY Wrote:  Why not strike a deal with the Fiesta and Orange.

If the winner comes from the West sans UCF but including Navy goes to the Fiesta.
If the winner comes from the East the Orange Bowl but including UCF.

... because neither the Fiesta nor Orange wants us?

(11-23-2011 11:59 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 09:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 02:01 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Well if we go back to the old arrangements the Rose is out for ND and if they joined ACC or BigTen it would be orange or rose so by doing that arrangement with big east they would have more flexibility in bowl choices

Notre Dame has no incentive to tie their BCS bowl chances to the Big East's or anyone else's. They maintain maximum flexibility by staying independent. That way, only the Rose is off limits.

Here is the problem they could be facing:

Sugar Bowl is going to be SEC, who is to say the Number 2 Big 1G also has a tie in with the Sugar Bowl.

There's no incentive for the Sugar or Orange or Fiesta to tie themselves in to the #2s from any particular conference, as that limits their options. They are better off leaving a slot open to attract a top-flight team from any conference, or a Notre Dame.

Liberty Bowl...Louisville will bring 40,0000.

(11-24-2011 11:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 11:59 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 09:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-23-2011 02:01 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Well if we go back to the old arrangements the Rose is out for ND and if they joined ACC or BigTen it would be orange or rose so by doing that arrangement with big east they would have more flexibility in bowl choices

Notre Dame has no incentive to tie their BCS bowl chances to the Big East's or anyone else's. They maintain maximum flexibility by staying independent. That way, only the Rose is off limits.

Here is the problem they could be facing:

Sugar Bowl is going to be SEC, who is to say the Number 2 Big 1G also has a tie in with the Sugar Bowl.

There's no incentive for the Sugar or Orange or Fiesta to tie themselves in to the #2s from any particular conference, as that limits their options. They are better off leaving a slot open to attract a top-flight team from any conference, or a Notre Dame.

Quo
You are wrong on this ,while prestige wise they might want to stay open for those opportunities, here is reality.
The orange bowl needs people to travel, they have a bad hand with ACC because they don't travel well for the most part. A highly ranked team from pac12 does nothing for them and unless the big12 school is Texas or Oklahoma the interest and fan travel will not be enough. So then you have to look at BigTen and sec. If the OB could get the 2 or 3 of either league they might be more willing than keeping themselves open.
We shall see

Bowls the BE would have a shot at landing for their #1, notwithstanding Quo's negative outlook.

Orange
Sun
Gator

I would be ok with any of these.

(11-25-2011 11:02 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Bowls the BE would have a shot at landing for their #1, notwithstanding Quo's negative outlook.

Orange
Sun
Gator

I would be ok with any of these.

What do you mean by "shot"? If you mean 1/1000 chance, i agree. But realistically, the best bowls likely to be interested in our #1 are Champs and Holiday.