Uh, no. Kansas State and Kentucky would capture local interest, and probably bring a crowd, as would ULaLa and Jackson State. UConn and Rutgers wouldn't bring flies.

USM@FTL Wrote:Uh, no. Kansas State and Kentucky would capture local interest, and probably bring a crowd, as would ULaLa and Jackson State. UConn and Rutgers wouldn't bring flies.

Well you'll have to excuse me--we play an awesome OOC schedule (in fact far and above the best in the Big East) and Kansas State/Kentucky would be nothing special to us. How about Baylor and Duke then? I know USM plays a great OOC schedule for a CUSA team. However, you're are saying your fans would be less excited to play a BCS team in a game than one of the local dregs even if it is a traditionally weak Rutgers and unknown UConn. BTW, UConn will be very good within 10 years. USM vs Rutgers or UConn could be on the ESPN system, Directional LA LA wouldn't be sniff a chance unless it was syndicated out as some local production.

Our fans know that the label "BCS" doesn't insure quality of opponent. No, Baylor and Duke wouldn't draw either. Neither would Vanderbilt. USF has more potential than UConn and they won't draw anybody. The team needs either local drawing power or a noted tradition of excellence. Nearby I-AA SWAC teams would draw more for their band's performance alone. ULaLa is nearby and would bring a few fans (and they are the kings of cajun food tailgating).

USM@FTL Wrote:Our fans know that the label "BCS" doesn't insure quality of opponent. No, Baylor and Duke wouldn't draw either. Neither would Vanderbilt. USF has more potential than UConn and they won't draw anybody. The team needs either local drawing power or a noted tradition of excellence. Nearby I-AA SWAC teams would draw more for their band's performance alone. ULaLa is nearby and would bring a few fans (and they are the kings of cajun food tailgating).

Ok, I'll defer to your knowledge of USM fan behaviors. I understand each fan base is different.

A lot of weird things would have to happen for USM to be in the Big East anyways. I tend to think: ECU. UCF and Memphis are the most likely CUSA teams to be invited if the 12 team model happens.

TexanMark Wrote:

USM@FTL Wrote:Uh, no. Kansas State and Kentucky would capture local interest, and probably bring a crowd, as would ULaLa and Jackson State. UConn and Rutgers wouldn't bring flies.

Well you'll have to excuse me--we play an awesome OOC schedule (in fact far and above the best in the Big East) and Kansas State/Kentucky would be nothing special to us. How about Baylor and Duke then? I know USM plays a great OOC schedule for a CUSA team. However, you're are saying your fans would be less excited to play a BCS team in a game than one of the local dregs even if it is a traditionally weak Rutgers and unknown UConn. BTW, UConn will be very good within 10 years. USM vs Rutgers or UConn could be on the ESPN system, Directional LA LA wouldn't be sniff a chance unless it was syndicated out as some local production.

I don't know much about an alumni base in Mississippi for Rutgers, but whatever alumni we have would definitely be at the game. Ask the teams that travel to areas where we have large alumni bases how many Rutgers fans show up, alot do. Believe me we start winning and we will travel well and likely have to expand Rutgers Stadium a good 20,000 seats.

Navy could join the BE, Navy attracts many people acroos the nation and annapolis would be another state (unless my geography is wrong and Georgetown is not in DC)

Neither Navy nor Army are going to join the BE unless their recruiting 'restrictions' change - which isn't likely. Navy has shown Army that the best approach is to be an independent.

However, the BE might be able to get a 'scheduling' arrangement with both Army and Navy whereby 4 teams play one and 4 teams play the other until such time as the BE is no longer an 8-team conference. I think that will be about the extent of any BE affiliation with Navy and Army.

And even that is suspect since schedules are made out years in advance and if the BE does split in 5 years, there simply may be no time to develop this scheduling affiliation.

Cheers,
Neil

TexanMark Wrote:I know USM plays a great OOC schedule for a CUSA team.

If you take a closer look you'll see most CUSA teams play a very good OOC schedule. Why? Because we are the league that the BCS conferences look to for "gimme wins". Or at least that is the perception. And for the most part (and I hate to say this) they're right. With the exception of USM and Marshall to an extent most CUSA do have a hard time beating the upper tier BCS schools.

I think you're missing the point regarding attendance, usm@ftl. If your fans don't show up for whomever you might be playing, and for whatever reason, it's a liability and a flaw in your fanbase. You seem intent to use it as a backhanded barb that BE teams wouldn't be a draw for your fans, but it only paints a picture of them as unreliable and chronically regional -- two of the best arguments for your program to stay exactly where they are, and not just geographically I might add.

And regarding your statements that USM has owned Louisville in football, how far back are you trying to go? Let's look at our recent history so that others on the board can see for themselves:

2000 Louisville wins in Hatiesburg 49-28
2001 Louisville wins in PJCS 24-14
2002 Louisville wins in Hattiesburg 20-17

2003-2004 C-USA doesn't schedule this game either year to increase the odds of
multiple ranked teams (see USM vs. UTEP this year) -- USM is obviously outgunned
in both of these matchups if we're allowed to play

Southern Miss has a strong football history and puts a good product on the field. No doubt.
If you want your program to thrive, though, you have to be looking forward, not back.

Yes, Louisville beat USM the last 3 times we played and it was stupid not to play the last 2 years, but I won't concede that USM would have lost both games. On paper it might look that way, but traditionally we know that's not the case. Funny things happen when USM and Louisville play, just ask Howard. 18-8 isn't it?

Stuck in the past? Like we ever thought beating Louisville was a big deal. Sorry, we got bigger fish to fry. Our fans are fickle. What can I say? They want to beat big-name opponents. So, we'll schedule them OOC and slowly build new rivals in the new C-USA. BTW, we'll still be top dog in C-USA, and eventually it will be much stronger and healthier than C-USA was when Louisville was in it, if that's not already the case.

I agree that C-USA will be a good football conference and USM will be one of the favorites most years. My post wasn't about USM lacking quality, but about the fans being locked into an outdated mindset.

You can talk about Alabama, for instance, being a big name in college football, but the reality is that new powers are constantly emerging and some old ones get by on their names, including the Tide. Notre Dame would have been absolutely waxed by Boise State had they played last year. My point is that the fan paradigm you describe is static and simply not supported by results.

USM@FTL Wrote:Yes, Louisville beat USM the last 3 times we played and it was stupid not to play the last 2 years, but I won't concede that USM would have lost both games. On paper it might look that way, but traditionally we know that's not the case. Funny things happen when USM and Louisville play, just ask Howard. 18-8 isn't it?

Stuck in the past? Like we ever thought beating Louisville was a big deal. Sorry, we got bigger fish to fry. Our fans are fickle. What can I say? They want to beat big-name opponents. So, we'll schedule them OOC and slowly build new rivals in the new C-USA. BTW, we'll still be top dog in C-USA, and eventually it will be much stronger and healthier than C-USA was when Louisville was in it, if that's not already the case.

Do you go by the name of "eagle in yune" on any of the other boards. You sound alot like him. You even use some of the same terminology as him ie; Big dogs of CUSA; 18-8, the need to constantly put down louisville. The only difference is you seem to be less of a jerk than him.

USM@FTL Wrote:Yes, Louisville beat USM the last 3 times we played and it was stupid not to play the last 2 years, but I won't concede that USM would have lost both games. On paper it might look that way, but traditionally we know that's not the case. Funny things happen when USM and Louisville play, just ask Howard. 18-8 isn't it?

Stuck in the past? Like we ever thought beating Louisville was a big deal. Sorry, we got bigger fish to fry. Our fans are fickle. What can I say? They want to beat big-name opponents. So, we'll schedule them OOC and slowly build new rivals in the new C-USA. BTW, we'll still be top dog in C-USA, and eventually it will be much stronger and healthier than C-USA was when Louisville was in it, if that's not already the case.

You know that you do not really believe that! You know, you are in CDOA! :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

No, I'm certainly not Yune. I've been going by this handle for about 5-6 years now. Yune is USM's version of Wilkie01 and L-Yes. They're just as crass.

As far as my mean spirits toward Louisville, Cincy, and USF go, I think it most recently festered from the ignored potential of a full merger between C-USA and the Big East (though resentment can be traced back to the metro conference days when metro conference football was an idea that would have been a BCS player). A 25-team "super conference" could have been achieved with a Big East/C-USA merger and big money could have come of it, but Louisville and Cincy didn't even wait to play the cards they had, which were in their favor. (The Big East wasn't going to look anywhere else.) Instead, the Big East put a band-aid on a gaping wound and C-USA rebuilt itself along more geographic lines.

C-DOA? Not even if the Big East splits, then takes Memphis, Marshall, ECU, and UCF. We'll just take the best of the WAC and Sunbelt. They're the ones you're hurting, not C-USA. C-USA has way too much going for it to disappear.

Now then, what happens if the Big 10 offers Syracuse, WVU, or Pitt? It's not THAT unlikely.

Oh Wilkie, Louisville leaving was the best medicine ever for C-USA. Louisville's performance wasn't worth the politics we put up with. We should have kept you guys kicked out when you opposed ECU back in '97 or so. Think you'd be where you're at today had we done so? And no, USM really won't miss you either. You weren't THAT good. UTEP, Tulsa, and Marshall will all play politics a little nicer, and maybe even perform better.

Perform a little better? when those schools when 3 out of the last 5 C-DOA Titles in football, when those schools have both revenue sports in the Top 10 and that includes USM then come talk to me.

Right now C-DOA is nothing but a pimple on our rear end and on June 30 we will bust it.

Quote:However, the politics involved with Marshall and WVU might be too nasty for that to happen.

WVU did not block Marshall the last round of expansion, in fact we were the only school that supported them, where this rumor that WVU will block Marshall comes from... I do not know.

Quote:They're the ones you're hurting, not C-USA.  C-USA has way too much going for it to disappear.

How you can honestly say that losing South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, DePaul, Marquette, Marshall, Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida, and TCU as a biproduct has not/will not hurt C-USA is simply beyond me.

Of course, this entire derailed Navy/Big East thread is pretty ridiculous considering the fact that nobody in the Big East would ever want UAB or Southern Miss.

Quote:A 25-team "super conference" could have been achieved with a Big East/C-USA merger

Or hey, the top 8 schools could break off instead of raking in the dough and sharing it with the likes of UAB, Rice, SMU, etc.

I'm not gonna dog C-USA. It was good for us overall and we pulled our weight for it, too. I think C-USA will still be solid in football and USM will be a staple. I have respect for their program and history and I wish we had played them the last two years.

That said, Louisville and TCU were the best matchups you had at USM in conference lately (or it was supposed to have been) and it will hurt to lose that. Memphis, if they can maintain, will still be a nice grudge match. I understand the reason you want to write off the changes as unimportant, but you can't wish the truth away. I've missed not having the Southern Miss game from our end, too.

I also see your argument about regionality, especially since the USM administration and state legislators seem intent on limiting the sphere of influence with financial constraints. The USM football team could be much more of a national player with the right backing.

Finally, the arguments that C-USA and the Big East will be comparable are not reasonable. Last year was the nadir of Big East football and it still wasn't that tight. With the tradition of Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and West Virginia and the financial and PR behemoth that is UConn, the Big East is a major player. That doesn't reflect poorly on C-USA, though. It's a chance to build something new and to make football the flagship sport rather than basketball. The MWC should be the immediate target of comparisons, though. C-USA could conceivably catch them in conference power and prestige in the near future.

I'm not a fan of conference raiding at all, even if our conference would be the beneficiary. I hope that our expansion, if and when it happens, comes from independents and/or 1-AA teams stepping up. I would love to see Army, Navy, or Villanova become our new football members if the circumstances are right.

I do not want CUSA to fail, but I am glad UL is no longer in that Mid-Major conference! :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

nflsucks Wrote:How you can honestly say that losing South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, DePaul, Marquette, Marshall, Memphis, East Carolina, Central Florida, and TCU as a biproduct has not/will not hurt C-USA is simply beyond me.

It has not/will not in football. Basketball it has hurt/and would hurt.

Of course, this entire derailed Navy/Big East thread is pretty ridiculous considering the fact that nobody in the Big East would ever want UAB or Southern Miss.

Who do you mean by nobody in the BE? Posters? :laugh:

Or hey, the top 8 schools could break off instead of raking in the dough and sharing it with the likes of UAB, Rice, SMU, etc.

Wow that is just mean! U suckNFL!

Don't know why you're insulting UAB either. But if that makes you feel more of a man then be my guest. Don't forget, we had a first round pick yesterday as well. Our 2nd in 5 years which is not bad considering we been Div I for 10 years and in existence for 15.

All this talk about who the BE can take from CUSA or any other conference is so hypothetical its stupid.

Point is CUSA was good for UL and UC. The BE got a program coming into it's own with UL and a program still looking to get over the hump in football with UC.

We got good programs to replace them. If and when the BE decides to expand or another conference comes after a team in your conference then maybe Memphis, UCF, ECU or Marshall becomes an issue. The difference right now between CUSA and the BE is the BCS and the 4 less teams the BE has compared to CUSA.

Going into 2005 Football Season let look at the Top 8 team in C-USA and the Big East IMO.

Louisville and UTEP=Advantage Louisville, Top 10-12 team compared to borderline Top 25 team.

Pittsburgh and Southern Miss=Advantage Pittsburgh. Top 20 team compared to unranked team replace it most dominate player on defense.

West Virginia and Memphis=Advantage the Eers, very good recruiting class coming including maybe the top RB in the country. Plus borderline Top 25 squad.

Syracuse and UAB=Advantage UAB, sorry Orange but their QB is the real deal. Good up and coming program

UConn and Marshall=Advantage Huskies, the Herd is replacing too much including their coach.

USF and Houston=Even, huge talent infusion in Tampa with back to back solid recruiting classes. Houston has some very good players coming back.

Cincinnati and Tulane=Advantage Green Wave, the Bearcats are completely rebuilding.

Rutgers and East Carolina, Tulsa, Rice, SMU and UCF=Advantage Rutgers, as bad as the Scarlet Knights have been the 4 C-USA schools are in even worse shape right now. At least Rutgers beat Michigan State last year on ABC TV.