I read this message board and see alot of people ripping other people for pessimistic attitudes or negativity. Is that not allowed?

The way I see it is.....to say UC won't get past the second round of the NCAA Tournament is pretty much a given since it's been so long since they have. To predict a loss to Wake Forest is pretty much on target because UC rarely beats higher ranked opponents. Am I still a fan for saying so? I love the Bearcats. But is being a realist about the facts make you less of a fan?

There are some people on this board that will lambast certain people for stating the truth. I am just curious how people view this.

Remember, sometimes stating the truth about a situation doesn't mean we like the truth. I wish with all my heart that UC could put together a nice team that could make an outstanding run for the title in the near future. I will always wish for that. But our recent woes say otherwise. Doesn't mean it can't change, but until I see some results, I won't get my hopes up.

if you're going to post something such as:
"We'll lose by 20 on our home court. I can tell we're already overmatched"
when not even a quarter of the game has passed and it turns out UC wins by 22 then you deserve to be ridiculed like a Xavier fan

To me, die hard fans are eternally optomistic. Even if history and records say one thing,I expect us to win every game. Now if we were 2-15, a fair amount of pessimism would be expected. But I don't care that we've been bounced in the second round if I'm making my 2005 brackets, or that Wake is rated highly. There is tremendous parity these days, esp when playing at home.
Criticism is welcome,,constuctively. But no one likes whiners. "to say UC won't make it out of second round is a GIVEN?" No,,the sun coming up is a given, Xavier/UC will be a hotly contested game is a given, DUKE will be on TV alot is a given, the ENQ sucks is a given.

In my humble opinion, constructive criticism is always something that all should look forward to because it is "constructive" or "helpful". However, "negative" or "destructive" criticism, just to be ripping someone or something, really has no place on a board of fans that purport to support a particular program. I am seeing many of the, and I'm guessing here, younger fans (short for fanatic) just ripping away anytime they are pissed. I don't need to call anyone out. Everyone, including themselves, knows who they are and what they stand for.

OK, off my Ivory Soap Box.

You can be negative, just be prepared to be ridiculed and mocked.

The negative people do it to the optimistic people all the time, asking questions like, "Do you think this team actually has heart?" and "Do you really think max can make the NBA? Ha." etc...

Nobody's been banned for expressing these views to my knowledge. Just argued with.

People that are eternally pessemistic or negative are viewed as trolls. It seems all they want to do is get a rise out of people.

Chattitude, you are the definition of an up and down fan fan. You can be he biggest fan one minute and the worst the next. For that we are all amused and enjoy reading your posts.

I think posters have problems with personal attacks on players or when the same poster complains about the same thing 10 times a week.

Quote:The way I see it is.....to say UC won't get past the second round of the NCAA Tournament is pretty much a given since it's been so long since they have. To predict a loss to Wake Forest is pretty much on target because UC rarely beats higher ranked opponents

The same thing could have been said about XU since they have only been to the Sweet 16 once and they made the Elite 8 last year.

UC hasn't done well in the tournament recently but to say it's a GIVEN they can't get past the 2nd Round is wrong.

Vegas has WF as a 2 point favorite so if you think UC has no chance against Wake Forest you should find a bookie and put as much money down as possible. I think most people think that if UC plays a really good game they can beat Wake since it's on UC's home court.

The dicey part is that, while "truth" and "realism" sound like objective things, they're not, especially on boards such as these and with fan(atics) such as us. One man's truth is another man's heresy. One man's realism is another man's pessimism.

It's true that certain things are "givens" and other things are not, but that line blurs when we kick things back and forth here.

For my part, a theme of many of my posts is that I have become disenchanted, then resigned, to the program's current ceiling, as I see it. I feel like I see many of the same (or similar) things happen, year in and year out, that collectively define UC as a team that can/will always be legitimately ranked (or nearly so), but is no serious threat to even reach the final four, let alone win a national title. I see tangible and intangible reasons why -- and the responses to these kinds of discussions indicate a big mixed reaction to that.

I see this as "realistic" but disappointing -- yet not worth losing sleep over. I am cautiously optimistic that we'll make progress in this area in the Big East because competition makes you stronger. But I'll have to see us make that leap before I expect it to happen. It's disappointing because, when he was hired, Huggins told us to expect success on a final four/national championship level. That's now Kansas/Duke/Arizona/Syracuse/UConn/Kentucky/etc. territory, not UC territory.

None of this makes me any less of a fan, but to some, maybe I'm just a differently-thinking fan. It takes all kinds.

I've often thought several people on this board are too negative (though not most). I'm not going to name names, but it does get depressing sometimes to come to this board, hoping to read about the team I love, only to see such depressing thoughts from fellow Bearcat "fans". I would expect that from other schools trying to rip us, but I would think we can band together and stay positive about our team. Now, I'm not saying that's their is anything wrong with constructive criticism. There isn't. I don't expect people to ignore certain facts, and just pretend like nothing happened, because we're all UC fans, but there is a fine line between criticism and downright pessimism, as others have stated. It gets so bad that after a loss, I can't go on this board for a few days, because the topics are all so negative, that I get depressed if I take everything to heart. I come here to have fun, and talk Bearcat basketball or football, but sometimes it just becomes too much for me to handle. I guess I just wish there were less 'Kirkland sucks" or UC will never get out of the 2nd round" posts and more 'I'm looking forward to the Wake Forest game" or "Maxiell had a great game last night" threads. I think some UC fans take it for granted that we'll win 20 + games, win the conference, and go to the NCAA Tournament every year that they don't appreciate it how good we have it. I mean, we've been to a final 4, 2 elite 8's, and a sweet 16 since 92'. That's pretty good, imo. A lot of schools wish they had it that good, and I think too any people are negative around here. Okay, enough of my rant :)

I think I would describe myself as a fan, like binturong, as cautiously optimistic. Do I think we will beat Wake Forest tomorrow? My answer is, "we can", and maybe even, "we should." But I won't bet my house on it.

I will have some negative posts every now and then, and rightfully so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't blowing the Louisville game at home deserve some criticism? I think it does. After a game like that, a fan goes through many emotions, mostly anger and frustration, and it shows on this board. Shouldn't this be a place where Bearcat fans of all shapes and sizes come to share their opinions and read others. This is a place to come and vent our frustrations, and also praise a great game like Charlotte. I don't blame people for being negative, because there are certainly things that warrant their negativity. But I'll try to remain positive, despite some negative posts that I may post.

However, Negative thoughts like, "it's a given we won't make it past the 2nd round" is a ridiculous comment. We have potential to make a very deep run in the tourney this year. DO certain players need to step it up? Yes. Do we have to get lucky? Yes. But that is the same for every other team in the NCAA.

As a fan, we can either be happy for 25 wins and a top 25 ranking every year and get ousted early in the tourney, or we can hope for more, and get upset when we don't perform the way we're capable of. I don't blame people for wanting more.

It seems the opposite applies too. If a fan is positive the majority of the time or just chooses not to blast the team on a regular basis they're called a homer, told they can't see the truth, and that they are in denial or they don't know anything about BB.

People are entitled to their opinions, but when people post multiple posts on a daily basis complaining about the same thing over and over or just slinging insults out towards the team, players, and/or posters it brings the whole board down.

You make some good points, IDC. You are certaintly entitled to your opinion, and you're obviously going to be frustrated after the Louisville collapse. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a natural reaction. However, like O said, there are some people who just CONSTANTLY criticize the 'Cats and it gets old real quick (you know who you are), and most of us get tired of reading that. I guess, what it comes down to for me, is I'm a fan of the team, so I like to support them when things aren't going good, rather than try to bring them down. I'm a glass half-full type of guy. I don't like to be too harsh on the players (sometimes it's unavoidable) simply because these guys are just kids. I think we have to remember that, and sometimes lose sight of that. It's not like they're professionals, and do this for a living. I think you have free reign to criticize players in the NBA or NFL. But these guys are just kids who go to class, and also happen to play basketball for the university. They are very talented kids, of course, but in the end, they are just 18-22 year olds. Oh well, I guess we're all different, and react to the games in a different way. It makes us all unique.

binturong Wrote:The dicey part is that, while "truth" and "realism" sound like objective things, they're not, especially on boards such as these and with fan(atics) such as us. One man's truth is another man's heresy. One man's realism is another man's pessimism.

It's true that certain things are "givens" and other things are not, but that line blurs when we kick things back and forth here.

For my part, a theme of many of my posts is that I have become disenchanted, then resigned, to the program's current ceiling, as I see it. I feel like I see many of the same (or similar) things happen, year in and year out, that collectively define UC as a team that can/will always be legitimately ranked (or nearly so), but is no serious threat to even reach the final four, let alone win a national title. I see tangible and intangible reasons why -- and the responses to these kinds of discussions indicate a big mixed reaction to that.

I see this as "realistic" but disappointing -- yet not worth losing sleep over. I am cautiously optimistic that we'll make progress in this area in the Big East because competition makes you stronger. But I'll have to see us make that leap before I expect it to happen. It's disappointing because, when he was hired, Huggins told us to expect success on a final four/national championship level. That's now Kansas/Duke/Arizona/Syracuse/UConn/Kentucky/etc. territory, not UC territory.

None of this makes me any less of a fan, but to some, maybe I'm just a differently-thinking fan. It takes all kinds.

[QUOTE]

You put into words exactly how I feel. I am thankful after experiencing the Tony Yates era that Huggs came here and gave us our current success along with the 1 Final Four and 2 Elite Eight runs..........BUT, I do feel as if we've hit a ceiling. One would expect another run at some point, and maybe it's coming. I am glad we are a perennial top 25 team, but wouldn't it be weak of me not to want more? And I expected more. I got a taste of something special in '92 and '93 and thought it might end up being the norm rather than a couple of special memories. And the pain we all endured when Kenyon broke his leg. No one's fault, just bad luck..........which leaves us wondering, "what if?"

I love this team, but I am frustrated, as said in his post, by the same mistakes year in and year out that lead to this ceiling that stops us from going farther.

On a side note.............I like bearcatb's posts because he dishes out criticism when deserved and praise when deserved. He tends to be one of the most realistic posters on this board...........not to mention, funniest.

nm.

nm

I personally don't believe in insulting players when they're not professional. In college basketball, the coach runs the ship, as opposed to the NBA, where the players do. If you want to go to a Lakers game and boo Kobe unmercifully, and insult him, it's fine with me. But, when people insult college players, who earn about squat, I have a big problem with it.

There are times when I'll criticze Armein, when - I dunno - much of the time when he opens his mouth. Seems if he's not talking about "not worrying about falling behind", or "it's early in the season (in FEBRUARY)", he's looking forward to getting revenge vs. Illinois, and proceeding to fail to back it up. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO INSULT AND CALL HIM NAMES OVER IT. And I won't call an injured player "a whiner".

Anyone who doesn't know where to draw the line between constructive criticism and insults, does not have a clue.

By the way, why do so few people ever criticize Huggs - even constructively? He's the one who gets payed about $1M/yr.