I Posted this on the BE Board, But I'll post it here for those who are not members of that board

(From the MEMPHIS BOARD ON HERE)

There is a rumor floating around Hattiesburg (not a hot rumor; maybe medium-warm at best!) about the Big East. It says that Louisville is already leading a charge to get the conference to 12 all-sports members, and is making some headway. Something about an amicable split with the non-football schools, etc.

Supposedly, they are looking at Memphis, Southern Miss and a couple of other schools (possibly ECU) to bring the all-sports group up to 12. This rumor has popped up among USM and non-Southern Miss people as well. Have y'all heard anything about this?


<a href='http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/memphis/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=23039' target='_blank'>ANOTHER RUMOR</a>

Wow...that is a new rumor....I guess things would look something like this

North
Pitt
West Virginia
Syracuse
Uconn
UC
rutgers

South
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
USF
UCF
East Carolina



-- I just don't see something like that working....Memphis and USM have football programs that are good enough to go to small bowls...UCF and ECU arn't going to bowls at all right now...That league would still be behind most BCS conferences (may pass the Pac 10) and I don't see a huge pay day for the championship game...also a problem of where to have the championship game...that would be a difficult call in a confernce so spread out

-- I think there would be ?s about USMs TV market and the fact that it is the third school in poor rural state....

-- Also ?s about basketball....the northern part of the league looks MUCH stronger then the southern part...not sure the BE football schools would go for something like that...especially considreing the high tide we are at right now with 6 out of the 8 BE football members being ranked in hoops

-- Fianlly...I'm not sure Louisville has the influence in the BE to pull something like that of...up to this year the unquestioned leader of the BE football schools was Syracuse...but that may have changed since there longime AD just retired...still convicing Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn to add that many schools from the deep south seems like a long shot

-- Just thinking out loud here...but the older BE football schools may want Temple back as part of the deal...

-- It is an intersting idea though

Jackson1011 Wrote:Just thinking out loud here...but the older BE football schools may want Temple back as part of the deal...

Temple may not even have a FB program three years from now. In another thread you wrote the the Big East needs football programs that have fan bases. What does Temple average? 10,000?

Temple would bring the Philly market...something that the 12 team league would badley need...also it would allow UC to play its traditional opponets/ be in the same divison as Louisville....it would also even the basketball divisions out a little bit


Jackson

I was suprised when the Big East chose USF over Memphis. I've read on message boards speculation that the CUSA Commissioner & the Big East Commissioner agreed to make Memphis off limits. CUSA loses more if Memphis were to leave than any other school. I can't see the Liberty Bowl staying without Memphis. Does anyone think Memphis is truly off limits? If they are, it certainly alters the landscape of possible future Big East expansion.

Quote:Does anyone think Memphis is truly off limits? If they are, it certainly alters the landscape of possible future Big East expansion

-- I highly doubt it...what exactly was CUSA going to do to the BE if Memphis was chosen?? The BE tried every legal trick in the book against the ACC and Miami to keep the status quo and nothing worked...the last round simply came down to the fact that we could only choose one out of two schools...one was in Flordia and one was in western Tennessee...every BE school hits the flordia recruiting trail hard...so USF was selected....its as simple as that....I have seen pictures ofRutgers billboards in Tampa area...nothing like that would have been possible if Memphis was selected...it was location, location, location

* also the fact that Memphis is in the central time zone didn't do them any favors


Jackson

Jackson, I don't think there is anything in writing, I just remember the Big East Commissioner upset the way the ACC Commissioner went about raiding the Big East. I seem to remember the Big East Commissioner saying that he was openly working with the CUSA Commissioner. Now, if he was trying to be fair with CUSA, I would think that the CUSA Commissioner would have done everything possible to keep Memphis. I understand why the Big East chose USF, but they could have gotten Memphis as an allsport program & one of the Florida schools as a football only member. I just don't buy that all of the Florida schools would have held out for an allsport membership.

Jackson1011 Wrote:Temple would bring the Philly market.

Sure it does. And Rice brings the Houston market.

Jackson, you're smarter than that.

Actually Rice does bring Houston. The formula used is based on 'cost per thosand' in other words how much money will it coast to reach 1000 people. The Larger the market the smaller the shares can be and still bring in a strong coast per thousand buy. A 1 share in Houston is equal to a 5 share in Louisville. Lets say Rice pulls a 5 share in Houston for a TV game, Louisville would have to pull a 25 share to equal that. The number of sets in use would be the same.

Quote:Jackson, I don't think there is anything in writing, I just remember the Big East Commissioner upset the way the ACC Commissioner went about raiding the Big East. I seem to remember the Big East Commissioner saying that he was openly working with the CUSA Commissioner. Now, if he was trying to be fair with CUSA, I would think that the CUSA Commissioner would have done everything possible to keep Memphis. I understand why the Big East chose USF, but they could have gotten Memphis as an allsport program & one of the Florida schools as a football only member. I just don't buy that all of the Florida schools would have held out for an allsport membership.

--Yes I do recall that...but I was under the assumption that those meetings were mearly to inform CUSA of the schools we were contacting and to try to work on a time table for there departure..you must remember the ACC gave the BE no notification...there negoatioans with Miami, BC and SU took place privatly/without knowledge of the BE conference....actually one of the more intesting rumors I've heard is that ND was the one that informed the BE what was going on

-- Brick City...I think you are looking you are taking the BE moves at face value and not looking at the next step....certainly the BE football schools are in a state of flux between now and 2010...suppose it was the football school's longterm goal to have two Flordia schools...if any kind of football only membership was offered to USF/UCF...there other sports would have suffered...this way USF gets all sports membership now....UCF gets full membership into CUSA, time for football/bball to mature at a higher comptetive level then the Golden Knights were previously accomsted to, and a chance to get there on campus stduims done....then when 2010 rolls around and the entire UCF atheletic department is a little more seasoned..there added...certainlly that kind of scenario makes a much sense as any

Quote:QUOTE (Jackson1011 @ Jan 10 2005, 11:02 AM)
Temple would bring the Philly market. 

Sure it does. And Rice brings the Houston market.

Jackson, you're smarter than that

-- Certainly I'm not advocating Temple's reentry into the BE...all I'm saying is that if that kind of scenario where to come to pass...you are going to have to throw the northen Be schools a bone some how...adding Temple would cut down on the travel costs for the northern teams..and as I mentioned above put UC with its traditional rivals/even out the hoops divsions


Louisville
UC
Memphis
ECU
USF
UCF

-- I my view that division makes a lot more sense with UC /Louisville, USF/UCF being travel partners.....ECU only has a short trip down the coast to be close to two conference rivals and Memphis has its familar trek up river to play its historic foes

-- I don't know how it is defined that a school brings such and such a market...but if the ACC can claim that BC brings Boston....we can just as easily claim that temple brings Philly

Jackson

I don't mind rumor talk, and even enjoy speculating myself. The one thing I don't like is speculating that Army and/or Navy could be invited. I have been in a conference with one of them already. Other than West Point being a beautiful place to see a game, they brought nothing to the conference but easy wins and almost no competition. The fact is, the Academies just can't stand up to the talent and week in week out level of competition. They have to schedule 1AA and the dregs of 1A to maybe have a winning season. I have ultimate respect for the men who serve, but dang, they don't belong in the Big East. I wish Notre Dame would join. I could care less about Penn St., much like those in the north don't care about Memphis or any other southern invite. Penn St. has never drawn my attention, and those uniforms, uuuugly! As a UofL fan, give me 1. Notre Dame, 2. Memphis, 3. S Miss., 4. ECU.

As a Memphis fan, I am kinda scared to get in this conversation (outside looking in)--but here goes--

Memphis has not done anything untill the last 2 to 3 years to help their situation. A tradition of losing in football, with recent mediocrity in Basketball did nothing to make us a hot commodity.

I think that is changing now--as some folks round heer have realized we missed out on something great. I can only hope we get the chance to redeem ourselves--but we have a lot going against us. we are far away from everyone else--and have a relatively small media market.

I think that if it is an all sports conference--we would fit in nicely however. I just hope and pray that we continue to put ourselves in the situation to be marketable and desired.

Jackson1011 Wrote:I don't know how it is defined that a school brings such and such a market...but if the ACC can claim that BC brings Boston....we can just as easily claim that temple brings Philly

My definition of "bringing" a market is whether the folks in that market pay attention to the school that is supposedly "bringing" that market. There's no doubt that Louisville "brings" the Louisville market. Syracuse too. Cincinnati, to a lesser degreee, "brings" the Cincinnati market.

I'm sure that there are TV ratings numbers out there somewhere, but I just don't buy it that Temple "brings" the Philly market. If they did, they'd have more than 10,000 people at their football games.


In addition to TV markets, however, a conference has to take into consideration bowl payouts. Bowls negotiate their conference tie-ins partly based on how many people the conference is expecting to bring to the bowl game. That's one of the "knocks" on the Big East right now...the limited number of teams (compared to other BCS conferences) that have a large travelling fan base. Adding a member who draws 10,000 for home football games may or may not help your TV contract, but it certainly won't help in bowl tie-in negotiations.

The market size for the B

School---------Market---------------------MMR----------TV Homes
Rutgers............New York.............................1..................7,355,710
USF.................Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota)...14................1,671,040
Pitt.................Pittsburgh..............................21................1,186,010.
WVU...............Charleston-Hunt....................61............---
Connecticut....Hartford & New Haven...........28................1,017,530
Cincinnati.......Cincinnati................................32..................883,230
Louisville........Louisville.................................50..................637,680
Syracuse.........Syracuse................................81..................395,400.
-------------Total Big East Market------------------------------13,146,600


<a href='http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2004-11-02-bcs-negotiations_x.htm' target='_blank'>Fifth BCS game key in conference TV talks</a>

One thing to think about with UC... it is my understanding that UC has pulled great ratings for ESPN in the past thanks to our "most hated" college basketball team rating (this year, CNN/SI I believe). But since so many people dislike UC, if they see the game on TV they turn it on and hope UC loses. So, having UC play against UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, etc., might actually draw in viewers from out west just to root against UC more than to root for any of the other teams :).

Jackson, all we can do is speculate about the reason one school was included & another left out. CUSA could not have done anything to stop the schools from leaving, but it could have certainly made it messy. The departing schools worked out sweetheart deals for departure. Why did the Big East take the ACC to court? Couldn't CUSA have done the same to the Big East? Not only would Memphis be a long time rival for Louisville & Cincy, they would have brought the Liberty Bowl, a well thought of basketball program, & an improving football program that has higher attendance. I'm not an expert, but I would think Memphis is in a good tv market as well. Why take a chance on a school that has no history or fan support? Heck, why doesn't your logic apply to USF as it does to UCF? Let USF stay as an allsport member in CUSA & prove themselves. Once the split occurs, both UCF & USF would be ready. Do you really think telling a recruit that once every couple of year their parents will be able to watch them play makes such a difference?

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Jackson, all we can do is speculate about the reason one school was included & another left out. CUSA could not have done anything to stop the schools from leaving, but it could have certainly made it messy. The departing schools worked out sweetheart deals for departure. Why did the Big East take the ACC to court? Couldn't CUSA have done the same to the Big East? Not only would Memphis be a long time rival for Louisville & Cincy, they would have brought the Liberty Bowl, a well thought of basketball program, & an improving football program that has higher attendance. I'm not an expert, but I would think Memphis is in a good tv market as well. Why take a chance on a school that has no history or fan support? Heck, why doesn't your logic apply to USF as it does to UCF? Let USF stay as an allsport member in CUSA & prove themselves. Once the split occurs, both UCF & USF would be ready. Do you really think telling a recruit that once every couple of year their parents will be able to watch them play makes such a difference?

Pirate, I've heard the theories, but I really don't think there was any "conspiracy" between Banowsky and Tranghese to let C-USA keep Memphis. If the Big East had wanted Memphis, they would have gotten Memphis.

I understand the reasons why they chose to go after South Florida. Basically, the gambled on South Florida's potential. If you think about the timing of the decision, it makes some sense. The decison was made prior to the 2003 football season. Until 2003, Memphis had gone 32 without a bowl game. Obviously, Memphis basketball is superior to USF b-ball, but the decision was all about football. The Big East has plenty of basketball powers.

Because of Memphis' football success the last two seasons, I'd like to think that the decision may be a little harder if the Big East were choosing between the schools today. However, there are obviously some folks in the Big East who were dead set on keeping a Florida connection no matter what and were willing to take a gamble on South Florida over Memphis no matter . If Memphis were the University of Pensacola, then we'd probably be in the Big East right now.

3601, How does having an unknown program in Florida help recruiting for schools located 1000 miles north? How many Florida recruits say, "I'm going to Pitt because USF is in the Big East?" It makes no sense! Only 3 to 4 Big East schools will play USF in Tampa each year. I assume they will rotate those schools, so each Big East school will play in Tampa once every two years.

"Mom & Dad, I'm going to play at Syracuse. Don't worry, you will get to see me play in person ever couple of years when the Orange play USF."

The tv market of Tampa had to be the reason USF was chosen. If not, the Big East was sold a bill of goods if they swallowed the USF helps in recruiting Florida reason.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:3601, How does having an unknown program in Florida help recruiting for schools located 1000 miles north? How many Florida recruits say, "I'm going to Pitt because USF is in the Big East?" It makes no sense! Only 3 to 4 Big East schools will play USF in Tampa each year. I assume they will rotate those schools, so each Big East school will play in Tampa once every two years.

"Mom & Dad, I'm going to play at Syracuse. Don't worry, you will get to see me play in person ever couple of years when the Orange play USF."

The tv market of Tampa had to be the reason USF was chosen. If not, the Big East was sold a bill of goods if they swallowed the USF helps in recruiting Florida reason.

I certainly don't think it helps the other Big East schools recruit in Florida, but some people seem to think it does. I know what I think and I've heard the argument from the other side. Only time will tell who is right.

However, in addition to any recruiting "bonus" for the other Big East schools, I think they were also "gambling" on South Florida becoming a much better football program. A lot of the talk seemed to mention South Florida's "potential" and compared USF to Miami in the early 80's.

Who knows? Maybe South Florida will get a lot better in football. They are certainly in the right state to do it. It will be a lot easier for them to win an 8-team Big East than a 12-team ACC or SEC.

mlbUC Wrote:One thing to think about with UC... it is my understanding that UC has pulled great ratings for ESPN in the past thanks to our "most hated" college basketball team rating (this year, CNN/SI I believe). But since so many people dislike UC, if they see the game on TV they turn it on and hope UC loses. So, having UC play against UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, etc., might actually draw in viewers from out west just to root against UC more than to root for any of the other teams :).

That's a great point. Also people in the "hip hop" community LOVE UC. It's the "streetball" mentality. I'm not saying UC plays like that, but UC is a tough, physical, intimidating, no-nonsense basketball program with a high-flying, dunking style, something people love. That's why UC see a lot of UC's gear and the UC flag on channels like BET and among a lot of celebrities. UC also has a lot of fans in the military and sell their merchandise well on the West Coast.