(05-02-2012 10:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 09:02 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  I just cannot get excited about Duke in football. Hoops and lacrosse are different stories, but football, no excitement here.

Heh, even Duke fans can't get excited about Duke football!

That's funny! Cold, very cold. But real funny.

(04-30-2012 09:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I wanted to look at divisions one more way - travel mileage - so I just updated my blog.

The 2 teams (other than Miami, of course) which would have to travel further with North / South divisions would be Va Tech & Virginia (though not by much).

Guess which 2 teams would benefit the most from switching to this divisional alignment? (hint: it's not UNC - they are "in the cat bird seat" no matter what).

So, how much gas money does it take to drive an extra 563 miles round trip? That's just part of the cost of the current divisions, (and you'll keep paying it until the ACC gets this right).

Great analysis. You are the spreadsheet king!

How would travel be affected if the ACC went to quads? Quads is my new name for pods since pods have a bad rep and Coach K doesn't like pods. I suspect he really just doesn't like dolphins but I digress. Uconn and Rutgers seem to be the popular choices but I'm thinking the numbers will explode if you add ND.

Looking forward to seeing the numbers.

(05-03-2012 05:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  How would travel be affected if the ACC went to quads? Quads is my new name for pods since pods have a bad rep and Coach K doesn't like pods. I suspect he really just doesn't like dolphins but I digress. Uconn and Rutgers seem to be the popular choices but I'm thinking the numbers will explode if you add ND.

Wolfman, you are full of good ideas today! I will put this on my to-do list. Right now I'm planning on about 2 blog posts per week (always one on Wednesday night/Thursday morning and usually another over the weekend). I have almost enough topics on my to-do list to keep me busy until football season begins already, but I agree that pods/quads deserve a look, so I'll try to squeeze them in.

This week is Notre Dame and the ACC week.

Don't tell anybody, but I've been working on SEC vs ACC for next week - it'll be our little secret.

The topic of ACC divisions continues to be the most popular one on my blog, so I will definitely set aside another week to discuss it some more this Summer...

I sometimes refer to the pods as sub- divisions.

If you're going to do those, don't split the North Carolina Teams.

SOUTH
FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT

TOBACCO ROAD
UNC
NC State
Duke
WF

MID-ATLANTIC
VT
UVa
Maryland
Penn State ( or Rutgers or Pitt)

NORTH
Syracuse
BC
Notre Dame
Pitt ( or UConn)

I like the model where you play everyone in your pod and one other pod every year in a temporary division plus one team each from the other two pods for a nine game schedule. The paired pods in the temporary divisions (use the Atlantic/Coastal names) would rotate every year. The temporary division champs would meet in the title game

(05-03-2012 01:32 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  If VT was paired with GT, our schedule wouldn't change at all. The way it is GT is swapped out for Clemson. Which I'm fine with. I'll miss GT but it's not like we'd never play them.

I hear ya. If that's what was decided I'd be ok with it. Just thought Clemson/VT would be a better tv draw.

(05-03-2012 03:06 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I sometimes refer to the pods as sub- divisions.

If you're going to do those, don't split the North Carolina Teams.

SOUTH
FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT

TOBACCO ROAD
UNC
NC State
Duke
WF

MID-ATLANTIC
VT
UVa
Maryland
Penn State ( or Rutgers or Pitt)

NORTH
Syracuse
BC
Notre Dame
Pitt ( or UConn)

I like the model where you play everyone in your pod and one other pod every year in a temporary division plus one team each from the other two pods for a nine game schedule. The paired pods in the temporary divisions (use the Atlantic/Coastal names) would rotate every year. The temporary division champs would meet in the title game

I like the pods idea. If the ACC went to 16 teams it would definately be a good model to do. It would be nice though if all the schools played one of the Florida schools as it would help with recruiting in Florida. Its something that could be modified as time goes by. It would be great if Notre Dame joined but its likely that they would not which would mean that it would probably be Rutgers and UConn that would join to make 16 teams. The only reason I see them joining would be if the ACC had a TV network and needed additional subscribers.

(05-03-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 05:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  How would travel be affected if the ACC went to quads? Quads is my new name for pods since pods have a bad rep and Coach K doesn't like pods. I suspect he really just doesn't like dolphins but I digress. Uconn and Rutgers seem to be the popular choices but I'm thinking the numbers will explode if you add ND.

Wolfman, you are full of good ideas today! I will put this on my to-do list. Right now I'm planning on about 2 blog posts per week (always one on Wednesday night/Thursday morning and usually another over the weekend). I have almost enough topics on my to-do list to keep me busy until football season begins already, but I agree that pods/quads deserve a look, so I'll try to squeeze them in.

This week is Notre Dame and the ACC week.

Nice article.

I wouldn't get too hung up on Stanford. That became a long-term series because of the rift between Miami and the Irish. I don't believe the Irish are especially concerned with that game going by the wayside.

I'd say the absolute sacrosanct games to the Irish are USC and Navy with Purdue and Michigan slightly below them. TerryD could let us know if I am off base on that.

Still that's 4 games and with the ACC going to a 9 game schedule, that's one too many. And I'm still not sure the ACC would vote Navy in as an all-sports member.

Plus, assuming indy becomes untenable to the Irish (which is the assumption in this scenario), how much ND perceives the ACC as the mover and shaker behind the scenes to bring that about, could mean they turn to the BiG instead.

While I personally would love an ND-Louisville combo for #15 and #16, I believe the Cards are dead in the water for the same reason WVU was dead in the water.

In many ways, I wish that wasn't the case since then the ACC could already be at 16 with both WVU and UL and we could stop talking about something that isn't likely to happen - ND.

Cheers,
Neil

(05-06-2012 12:40 AM)tj_2009 Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 03:06 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I sometimes refer to the pods as sub- divisions.

If you're going to do those, don't split the North Carolina Teams.

SOUTH
FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT

TOBACCO ROAD
UNC
NC State
Duke
WF

MID-ATLANTIC
VT
UVa
Maryland
Penn State ( or Rutgers or Pitt)

NORTH
Syracuse
BC
Notre Dame
Pitt ( or UConn)

I like the model where you play everyone in your pod and one other pod every year in a temporary division plus one team each from the other two pods for a nine game schedule. The paired pods in the temporary divisions (use the Atlantic/Coastal names) would rotate every year. The temporary division champs would meet in the title game

I like the pods idea. If the ACC went to 16 teams it would definately be a good model to do. It would be nice though if all the schools played one of the Florida schools as it would help with recruiting in Florida. Its something that could be modified as time goes by. It would be great if Notre Dame joined but its likely that they would not which would mean that it would probably be Rutgers and UConn that would join to make 16 teams. The only reason I see them joining would be if the ACC had a TV network and needed additional subscribers.

In a pod system, all of the schools could easily play a Florida school every year, as well as a Virginia school every year.

Each pod is broken up in half to play the other the pods.

So, in the example above, the North pod could be broken in half pairing ND and Syracuse in one and Pitt and BC in the other.

In the Mid-Atlantic pod, it could be VT/Rutgers and Va/Maryland.

In the Tobacco Road pod, UNC/Duke in one half and NCSt/Wake in the other.

In the South pod, FSU/GT in one half and Miami/Clemson in the other half.

So if you are a team in the North pod, you play each of the other pod's pairs for two years and then the other pod for two years to cycle your way through the pairings.

Cheers,
Neil

(05-06-2012 08:42 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 05:55 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  How would travel be affected if the ACC went to quads? Quads is my new name for pods since pods have a bad rep and Coach K doesn't like pods. I suspect he really just doesn't like dolphins but I digress. Uconn and Rutgers seem to be the popular choices but I'm thinking the numbers will explode if you add ND.

Wolfman, you are full of good ideas today! I will put this on my to-do list. Right now I'm planning on about 2 blog posts per week (always one on Wednesday night/Thursday morning and usually another over the weekend). I have almost enough topics on my to-do list to keep me busy until football season begins already, but I agree that pods/quads deserve a look, so I'll try to squeeze them in.

This week is Notre Dame and the ACC week.

Nice article.

I wouldn't get too hung up on Stanford. That became a long-term series because of the rift between Miami and the Irish. I don't believe the Irish are especially concerned with that game going by the wayside.

I'd say the absolute sacrosanct games to the Irish are USC and Navy with Purdue and Michigan slightly below them. TerryD could let us know if I am off base on that.

Still that's 4 games and with the ACC going to a 9 game schedule, that's one too many. And I'm still not sure the ACC would vote Navy in as an all-sports member.

Plus, assuming indy becomes untenable to the Irish (which is the assumption in this scenario), how much ND perceives the ACC as the mover and shaker behind the scenes to bring that about, could mean they turn to the BiG instead.

While I personally would love an ND-Louisville combo for #15 and #16, I believe the Cards are dead in the water for the same reason WVU was dead in the water.

In many ways, I wish that wasn't the case since then the ACC could already be at 16 with both WVU and UL and we could stop talking about something that isn't likely to happen - ND.

Cheers,
Neil

Neil, Stanford is important to ND for two reasons:

1) It is an "aspirational peer" regarding academics/total athletic program, etc..

2) Much more importantly, it gives ND an annual West Coast game. ND rotates the Stanford/Southern Cal games so that it plays one on the West Coast each year (recruiting/alumni access/exposure).


I would say that ND folks don't give two ***** about Purdue. The Michigan State series is much, much more important to ND.

Michigan State is the better SOS opponent and the rivalry is more intense.

Michigan State was blackballed by Michigan years ago, just like ND.

ND played Michigan State when few others would; Michigan State was the only Big Ten team to defy Michigan and play ND.

So, the history and rivalry between ND and MSU dwarfs anything related to the Boilermakers. That game could be dropped by ND and Irish fans would not blink an eye.

In any event, ND is going to try to keep this independence thing going. It also would be wise to watch and see if the ACC implodes the way that WVU fans predict (and hope) even if it were considering a conference for football.

(05-06-2012 10:12 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 08:42 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  This week is Notre Dame and the ACC week.

Nice article.

I wouldn't get too hung up on Stanford...
... I'd say the absolute sacrosanct games to the Irish are USC and Navy with Purdue and Michigan slightly below them....
...that's 4 games and with the ACC going to a 9 game schedule, that's one too many. And I'm still not sure the ACC would vote Navy in as an all-sports member...

Cheers,
Neil

Neil, Stanford is important to ND... it gives ND an annual West Coast game. ND rotates the Stanford/Southern Cal games so that it plays one on the West Coast each year (recruiting/alumni access/exposure).

...The Michigan State series is much, much more important to ND [than Purdue].

...In any event, ND is going to try to keep this independence thing going. It also would be wise to watch and see if the ACC implodes the way that WVU fans predict (and hope) even if it were considering a conference for football.

Thanks for the visit, Terry.

I do recognize that Notre Dame has more love for Michigan State at this point that for Michigan. I wonder if BC isn't pretty high on the pecking order, too?

In the second in my series of articles about Notre Dame & the ACC I consider what could happen if the Irish decide NOT to join (the more likely situation for the next decade).

In the third article I consider some odds & ends, including a way for the ACC to expand to 16 and reduce conference games to 7 (allowing 5 non-conference games), which might appeal more to Notre Dame.

Hope you all enjoy!

(05-06-2012 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  In the second in my series of articles about Notre Dame & the ACC I consider what could happen if the Irish decide NOT to join (the more likely situation for the next decade).

In regards to this, if Notre Dame doesn't join in all sports we are foolish if we allow them to join in anything.

Other than football (and given the quality of ND football the past decade even that is debatable) what does Notre Dame offer that we don't already have in abundance?

No to partial membership, and no to a scheduling alliance. If they covet independence so much let them have it.

(05-06-2012 01:16 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  In the second in my series of articles about Notre Dame & the ACC I consider what could happen if the Irish decide NOT to join (the more likely situation for the next decade).

In regards to this, if Notre Dame doesn't join in all sports we are foolish if we allow them to join in anything.

Other than football (and given the quality of ND football the past decade even that is debatable) what does Notre Dame offer that we don't already have in abundance?

No to partial membership, and no to a scheduling alliance. If they covet independence so much let them have it.

guaranteed sellouts. guaranteed national TV. that's what.

(05-06-2012 01:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  guaranteed sellouts.

For some teams.

Do you honestly think Clemson or Virginia Tech will ever see a game versus the Irish? Highly doubtful. Just like they pick and choose the BE teams they play they will pick and choose the ACC teams they play.

Quote: guaranteed national TV.

You could get the same by playing a quality B1G/SEC/BigXII/PAC12 team OOC without the headaches of dealing with the Irish.

Would Clemson jump to the Big 12 even though ND is a partial member?

(05-06-2012 01:27 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 01:18 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  guaranteed sellouts.

For some teams.

Do you honestly think Clemson or Virginia Tech will ever see a game versus the Irish? Highly doubtful. Just like they pick and choose the BE teams they play they will pick and choose the ACC teams they play.

Quote: guaranteed national TV.

You could get the same by playing a quality B1G/SEC/BigXII/PAC12 team OOC without the headaches of dealing with the Irish.

I agree - Clemson & VT will not be playing ND. Oh, well - guess we'll have to play Georgia & Alabama instead (2013). No biggie for us.

Still, looking at this as an ACC thing and not just a Clemson or VT thing, it would help the league as a whole if BC, Pitt, Maryland and Miami (or substitute) could all play Notre Dame annually.

(05-06-2012 01:36 PM)Hoquista Wrote:  Would Clemson jump to the Big 12 even though ND is a partial member?

Probably, because a jump to the Big XII would be made to save our football program because of the ACC TV contract.

(05-06-2012 01:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I agree - Clemson & VT will not be playing ND. Oh, well - guess we'll have to play Georgia & Alabama instead (2013). No biggie for us.

I dread 2014. The last year we will ever have an interesting OOC game besides South Carolina.

But hey...we get to look forward to playing Duke more often.

Quote:Still, looking at this as an ACC thing and not just a Clemson or VT thing, it would help the league as a whole if BC, Pitt, Maryland and Miami (or substitute) could all play Notre Dame annually.

I fail to see how bending over and kissing Notre Dame's feet benefits he conference. I mean, it did wonders for the Big East didn't it?

If they want independence then let them be independent. NMSU and Idaho are about to have a bunch of open dates they can help ND fill.

(05-06-2012 01:56 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  I fail to see how bending over and kissing Notre Dame's feet benefits he conference. I mean, it did wonders for the Big East didn't it?

Are you bending over & kissing Auburn's feet? No, you're just playing them in a high-paying, nationally-televised OOC game. That's all I'm advocating with Notre Dame. It seems like scheduling them as often as possible in football is a no-brainer.

The issue of whether to let them be non-football members has NOTHING to do with football - it's about whether you want to block the Big-12 or not. (I guess if you want to join the Big-12 you might not be in favor of blocking them)

At any rate it's 2 separate issues.

(05-06-2012 02:43 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 01:56 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  I fail to see how bending over and kissing Notre Dame's feet benefits he conference. I mean, it did wonders for the Big East didn't it?

Are you bending over & kissing Auburn's feet? No, you're just playing them in a high-paying, nationally-televised OOC game. That's all I'm advocating with Notre Dame. It seems like scheduling them as often as possible in football is a no-brainer.

The issue of whether to let them be non-football members has NOTHING to do with football - it's about whether you want to block the Big-12 or not. (I guess if you want to join the Big-12 you might not be in favor of blocking them)

At any rate it's 2 separate issues.

If the ACC were to go into a scheduling alliance with Notre Dame then it needs to be on our terms. They play who we offer or they can go pound sand. We aren't the ones who are going to have trouble scheduling late October and November games in the near future. We should not tie a scheduling alliance in with bowl ties as there is absolutely no benefit in that for us.

The Clemson and Auburn series has nothing to do with this because it was negotiated by the two schools originally, then we were both approached by the Chick-fil-a folks for the rubber match this year. The ACC had absolutely nothing to do with this, and deserves no credit for it.

Boston College - Wake Forest
Maryland - NC State
Miami - Florida State
Pitt - Georgia Tech
Syracuse - Duke
Virginia - UNC
Virginia Tech - Clemson