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James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
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hburg Offline
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Post: #81
Re: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Would agree, but the current admin (new pres on July 1) has shown little leadership, I really do hope they get canned and jmu finally gets going. Dukes09 is right get rid of the ad and the Vp of finance and we'll be in much better shape.

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05-17-2012 11:50 PM
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Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Offline
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Post: #82
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(05-17-2012 11:45 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 07:28 PM)jmufan Wrote:  http://jamesmadison.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1366572
Quote:Two leagues have contacted JMU to gauge the university's interest. One was expected: The Mid-American Conference, a stable group of mostly 20,000-plus enrollment schools. One wasn't expected: The Western Athletic Conference, a league that makes the Big East look normal.

Yes, the MAC and the WAC.

Madison, for the record, has zero interest in the latter.

If JMU wants to be FBS, they can't dismiss the WAC so easily. If the WAC is allowed to fail, FBS will be down to 10 conferences. There are now 127 FBS + transitional teams. That's 12.7 teams per conference. That's a very dangerous number if you're waiting for an opening. Only 1 conference had more than 12 football teams last year. Put the WAC back in play, and that's at least 10 more seats on the last train out of FCS-ville. JMU can make that train, but the WAC needs commitments right now. The other trains might not be making a stop in Harrisonburg.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but per NCAA rules, doesn't a conference need 4 existing FULL members to expand off? I don't think the WAC could continue with football even if they wanted to. There is a reason Idaho and NMSU are so desperate. The WAC can continue as a basketball only conference but Im pretty sure that the WAC is done as any kind of football conference whatsoever in regards to football according to existing NCAA bylaws. Maybe they can get a waiver? Somebody clarify, but the continued pipe-dream of an eastern division of the WAC is just a myth and needs to be put to sleep now that San Jose and Utah State have left. Even Idaho and NMSU know that and that's why they don't even talk it.

These people talking about a new eastern FBS conference or WAC East are just full of it. Besides, the last thing the FBS needs is more dilution from the FCS.

It's in their best interest to understand this so that they don't keep getting their hopes up. It's not fair for them to keep getting strung along with nonsense. It's one of those sad, but true moments.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2012 11:59 PM by Miami (Oh) Yeah !.)
05-17-2012 11:52 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #83
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(05-17-2012 11:52 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 11:45 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 07:28 PM)jmufan Wrote:  http://jamesmadison.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1366572
Quote:Two leagues have contacted JMU to gauge the university's interest. One was expected: The Mid-American Conference, a stable group of mostly 20,000-plus enrollment schools. One wasn't expected: The Western Athletic Conference, a league that makes the Big East look normal.

Yes, the MAC and the WAC.

Madison, for the record, has zero interest in the latter.

If JMU wants to be FBS, they can't dismiss the WAC so easily. If the WAC is allowed to fail, FBS will be down to 10 conferences. There are now 127 FBS + transitional teams. That's 12.7 teams per conference. That's a very dangerous number if you're waiting for an opening. Only 1 conference had more than 12 football teams last year. Put the WAC back in play, and that's at least 10 more seats on the last train out of FCS-ville. JMU can make that train, but the WAC needs commitments right now. The other trains might not be making a stop in Harrisonburg.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but per NCAA rules, doesn't a conference need 4 existing FULL members to expand off? I don't think the WAC could continue with football even if they wanted to. There is a reason Idaho and NMSU are so desperate. The WAC can continue as a basketball only conference but Im pretty sure that the WAC is done as any kind of football conference whatsoever in regards to football according to existing NCAA bylaws. Maybe they can get a waiver? Somebody clarify, but the continued pipe-dream of an eastern division of the WAC is just a myth and needs to be put to sleep now that San Jose and Utah State have left. Even Idaho and NMSU know that and that's why they don't even talk it.

These people talking about a new eastern FBS conference or WAC East are just full of it. Besides, the last thing the FBS needs is more dilution from the FCS.

It's in their best interest to understand this so that they don't keep getting their hopes up. It's not fair for them to keep getting strung along with nonsense. It's one of those sad, but true moments.

You are correct.

A transitioning school is required to play at least 60% of its home contests against established FBS competition. 60% of 12 equals 7.2 full FBS contests or rounding up 8 games against established FBS members.

Therefore a conference that falls below 4 members will not be able to provide enough established FBS schools on the schedule. You can't transition 5 FCS members for a total 8 member FBS league all at once.

Had the WAC retained 4 schools (Idaho, NMSU, TX St, La Tech) it could have pulled of the eastern seaboard rebuild touted by NoDak but they just got hit too hard at once.
05-18-2012 06:33 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #84
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(05-17-2012 10:46 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  Not in CUSA. JMU in the MAC may not be a bad idea. They are definitely not ready for CUSA.


But schools that don't have a built stadium or a team yet (Charlotte), team for one year (UTSA) and 3 years (ODU) are?
05-18-2012 09:39 AM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(05-18-2012 09:39 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 10:46 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  Not in CUSA. JMU in the MAC may not be a bad idea. They are definitely not ready for CUSA.


But schools that don't have a built stadium or a team yet (Charlotte), team for one year (UTSA) and 3 years (ODU) are?

You also forgot 2 year old GA State in the Sun Belt. They have been fudging their attendance numbers and typically draw less than 10k fans. They're also fielding an awful football product that loses to D2 and NAIA teams.
All of these teams are being taken for their markets, not for their existing fan bases (except maybe ODU), and definitely not for their ability to bring competitiveness to their conferences. They just inherited a string of future bottom dwellers who will struggle to draw fans.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2012 11:10 AM by Dukes09.)
05-18-2012 11:10 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #86
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(05-18-2012 06:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 11:52 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 11:45 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(05-17-2012 07:28 PM)jmufan Wrote:  http://jamesmadison.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1366572
Quote:Two leagues have contacted JMU to gauge the university's interest. One was expected: The Mid-American Conference, a stable group of mostly 20,000-plus enrollment schools. One wasn't expected: The Western Athletic Conference, a league that makes the Big East look normal.

Yes, the MAC and the WAC.

Madison, for the record, has zero interest in the latter.

If JMU wants to be FBS, they can't dismiss the WAC so easily. If the WAC is allowed to fail, FBS will be down to 10 conferences. There are now 127 FBS + transitional teams. That's 12.7 teams per conference. That's a very dangerous number if you're waiting for an opening. Only 1 conference had more than 12 football teams last year. Put the WAC back in play, and that's at least 10 more seats on the last train out of FCS-ville. JMU can make that train, but the WAC needs commitments right now. The other trains might not be making a stop in Harrisonburg.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but per NCAA rules, doesn't a conference need 4 existing FULL members to expand off? I don't think the WAC could continue with football even if they wanted to. There is a reason Idaho and NMSU are so desperate. The WAC can continue as a basketball only conference but Im pretty sure that the WAC is done as any kind of football conference whatsoever in regards to football according to existing NCAA bylaws. Maybe they can get a waiver? Somebody clarify, but the continued pipe-dream of an eastern division of the WAC is just a myth and needs to be put to sleep now that San Jose and Utah State have left. Even Idaho and NMSU know that and that's why they don't even talk it.

These people talking about a new eastern FBS conference or WAC East are just full of it. Besides, the last thing the FBS needs is more dilution from the FCS.

It's in their best interest to understand this so that they don't keep getting their hopes up. It's not fair for them to keep getting strung along with nonsense. It's one of those sad, but true moments.

You are correct.

A transitioning school is required to play at least 60% of its home contests against established FBS competition. 60% of 12 equals 7.2 full FBS contests or rounding up 8 games against established FBS members.

Therefore a conference that falls below 4 members will not be able to provide enough established FBS schools on the schedule. You can't transition 5 FCS members for a total 8 member FBS league all at once.

Had the WAC retained 4 schools (Idaho, NMSU, TX St, La Tech) it could have pulled of the eastern seaboard rebuild touted by NoDak but they just got hit too hard at once.
A league with four schools or less has to suspend play for one year so that the remaining FBS schools still play an FBS schedule.

Let's review the bylaws before declaring something to be impossible:

20.9.7.2 Football Scheduling Requirement. [FBS] The institution shall schedule and play at least 60
percent of its football games against members of the Football Bowl Subdivision. The institution shall schedule
and play at least five regular-season home games against Football Bowl Subdivision opponents. For purposes of
satisfying the scheduling requirement, a contest shall be considered a home contest if it is played in the stadium
in which an institution conducts at least 50 percent of its home contests. In addition, an institution may use one
home contest against a Football Bowl Subdivision member conducted at a neutral site to satisfy the home-game
requirement. (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04, 1/12/04, 12/15/06)


20.9.7.2.2.1 Reclassifying Opponents. [FBS] A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a
football bowl subdivision opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must meet the football
bowl subdivision scheduling requirements (year two of the reclassifying process). (Adopted: 4/15/97,
Revised: 3/10/04, 12/15/06


So, if the WAC remains a basketball conference and Idaho and NMSU stay:

WAC invites Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Appy St, Youngstown St, Ga Southern, Jax St, Lamar as affiliate members (maybe Lamar as a full member)

In 2013 those reclassifying schools play an independent schedule, mostly against each other.
In 2013, Idaho and NMSU play an independent schedule.
In 2014, all the reclassifying schools could join the WAC, as all would meet the FBS scheduling requirements by playing each other.
The WAC would have lost its FBS status, but can still eventually regain it if it meets the definition of an FBS league again.

Many posters seem to have severely underestimated the WAC's greatest asset: the ability to grant FBS membership.

Adding 8 schools, so that each school can easily attain 5 FBS homes games in the second year, meets the NCAA criteria for all 10 schools.




Most leagues want no more than one reclassifying school in each reclassifying "class" in its league at once to minimize scheduling issue. For CUSA, UTSA, ODU, and Charlotte will not overlap. For the Sun Belt, Texas St and Ga State will not overlap. For those reasons, CUSA and the Sun Belt have no interest in new FCS schools until their current ones have fully transitioned.

The only game left in town is the MAC, and why should it play until it knows how the UMass situation works. Moreover, JMU, Liberty, Appy St, and Delaware would all be major flight risks. Why should the MAC put effort and cash into growing a new FBS crop only to see that crop stolen by another conference when the schools have full FBS value?

Right now, only the WAC is willing to "invest" in FCS schools that have no intention of staying long term, because it means scheduling for the surviving WAC FBS programs.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2012 02:49 PM by NoDak.)
05-18-2012 02:40 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #87
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Illinois State remains committed to moving to FBS, and to the MVC. By joining a newly revised WAC for football only, it can stay in the MVC but at the same time move football to a higher level without joining the MAC. Win-win.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college...3ce6c.html

Quote:We’ve got to fill 15,000 seats consistently and show the area has that interest,” said Friedman. “At the time we’re filling the stadium — and certainly working closely with President Bowman — we’ll look at the expansion of that stadium.”

Bowman does not expect the considerable nationwide upheaval in conference affiliation to result in ISU leaving the Missouri Valley Conference.

“We’re real happy with the Missouri Valley right now,” said Bowman. “The presidents in the Valley are certainly thinking about what would happen if there were more realignment changes and what schools would make sense to incorporate into the Valley. But I don’t see anything on the immediate horizon.”
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2012 03:03 PM by NoDak.)
05-18-2012 03:02 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #88
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Bump. One month until Rose is long gone! Thank God!
06-01-2012 12:43 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #89
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Well, JMU has yet to find a home and hopefully the admin is actually doing something. How could a conference or an admin not want FBS to experience Bridgeforth Stadium? http://www.stadiumjourney.com/news/12-11...n-virginia
12-12-2012 10:11 PM
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hburg Offline
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RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
IS there an opportunity for JMU to move up after the original BE implodes and a new conference forms?
12-13-2012 04:37 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #91
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(12-13-2012 04:37 PM)jmufan Wrote:  IS there an opportunity for JMU to move up after the original BE implodes and a new conference forms?


there are opportunities.

Whether we seize them or not is the real question.
12-13-2012 04:52 PM
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Post: #92
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
We're all going to be in the SEC when it's over.
12-13-2012 10:39 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #93
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(12-13-2012 10:39 PM)FeFiFo Wrote:  We're all going to be in the SEC when it's over.

hahaha....love your picture.
12-13-2012 11:03 PM
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Post: #94
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
(12-13-2012 11:03 PM)jmufan Wrote:  
(12-13-2012 10:39 PM)FeFiFo Wrote:  We're all going to be in the SEC when it's over.

hahaha....love your picture.

Yeah Arguhhh, I always look good in photos.
12-14-2012 05:03 AM
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Post: #95
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Depends. I don't think Navy is thrilled with the recent goings-on. And they're a school I _could_ see filling the MAC's 14th slot instead of JMU. They'd keep their own TV deal for home games, they'd be great for MAC TV ratings and bowl negotiations, and unlike the New Big East, they'd be competitive in the MAC.

Downside--they'd have zero scheduling flexibility with 8 MAC games, Army, Air Force and Notre Dame.

Navy isn't Notre Dame, but playing around the country is something they like.
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2012 06:27 AM by johnbragg.)
12-14-2012 06:25 AM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #96
RE: James Madison: Where Do You Think They End Up?
Not sure how credible, but some are saying JMU to CUSA will happen.
09-26-2013 10:56 AM
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