Although I haven't seen the article myself...I read on other message boards that Mikey T was talking about adding a 9th football only member during media day....probably means Army or Navy....or somekind of combination where both are added and the academies would play 4 conferene games each plus each other



Jackson

Partial membership with Army and Navy would be nice, but if it's only one football-only school I hope the Big East adds Navy. I think they have a lot of potential.

why would Army or Navy join any conference? if they win they can go to most any bowl game they want. they want to play the SMU'S,DUKE'S,VANDERBUILT'S and Baylors of the college football world......not the WVU'S and PITT'S where they get the sh$t kicked out of them, every year.

pirate65 Wrote:why would Army or Navy join any conference? if they win they can go to most any bowl game they want. they want to play the SMU'S,DUKE'S,VANDERBUILT'S and Baylors of the college football world......not the WVU'S and PITT'S where they get the sh$t kicked out of them, every year.

Actually, Army is in a conference RIGHT NOW. Both have shown interest in joining C-USA and the Big East in a package deal. It would make snese to add Navy if Notre Dame plays a partial schedule against the Big East. Notre Dame already plays some of the current Big East schools, Pitt and Syracuse along with Boston College, though BC will be gone soon. If Navy joins on a football-only basis, that's another Big East school Notre Dame plays. So, from a rivalry standpoint, it makes sense. The Big East also wants a part in the Army/Navy game at the end of the year. Still, that's just my opinion. I don't have a clue who the Big East would be interested in for a football-only membership.

Well, they CUSA deal would have allowed Army/Navy to be selected as a CUSA bowl team any year they were eligible. (Isn't the Notre Dame deal with the BE that way?) I'd be suprised if their negotiations with the BE would be vastly different.

Also, Army and Navy wanted to hand select who they would play (i.e. they pretty much only wanted to play Rice, Tulane, and Tulsa...).

I don't get the split membership concept. It could be great as a temporary measure, but that's not the way any conference should go.

I thought Army was leaving the CUSA because they couldn't compete there. They planned on playing a bunch of lower MAC, CUSA, MWC, and SBC schools. If so, why would they join the Big East?

JMUDUKE Wrote:I thought Army was leaving the CUSA because they couldn't compete there. They planned on playing a bunch of lower MAC, CUSA, MWC, and SBC schools. If so, why would they join the Big East?

Army didn't leave because they couldn't compete in C-USA. They left because C-USA didn't improve the recruiting like they thought it would. It also cost them a lot of money in traveling, so they decided to go independent and hand pick their schedule.

Two things about a 9th football only member....it seems that the BE is trying to slide into the motor city bowl slot....if that happens the BE bowls could look like this:

1 BCS
2 Gator or Tangerine
3 NYC Bowl
4 insight.com
5 Tire Bowl in Charlotte
6 Indy Bowl
7 Motor City Bowl

not that is a LOT of bowls (northern bowls at that) for an 8 team league and ND....so that may be some kind of signal that football expansion is on the horizon


-- Also....a while back the Rutgers president was on ESPN radio and was talking about BE expansion etc......the announcer asked him after USF....what school or schools got the most support from BE members to be added....and he said Army and Navy were next in terms of support by a wide margin...again take that for what its worth...just passing things along

-- If one or both of the academies are added....they will want to play some BE games because we are all in the same region....Army is going to want to play UConn and Syracuse and Navy is going to want to play Rutgers and West Virginia because those games will boost there attendance and have a fairly good shot at being on TV.....at least in the NE region


Jackson

Army stated that they preferred to set their own schedule and would rather be independent than have 8 games of their schedule dictated to them each year.

Really, who wouldn't play Army...even when they're bad?

Army and Navy draw well and sell tickets whoever they play and whatever there record. why play WVU and Pitt and get beat up? when you can play SMU,VANDERBUILT and Duke and sell out and have a chance to win and go to a bowl? if they win they go to most any bowl they want. the BE and CUSA might want them but they like ND can remain indy and do quite well. Memphis might be #9 .........but i think they wouldn't go because of bball......they want full membership. i dont think a name school would go for a football only deal....the BE will split and go to 12 all sports......within 10 years.

pirate65 Wrote:Army and Navy draw well and sell tickets whoever they play and whatever there record. why play WVU and Pitt and get beat up? when you can play SMU,VANDERBUILT and Duke and sell out and have a chance to win and go to a bowl? if they win they go to most any bowl they want. the BE and CUSA might want them but they like ND can remain indy and do quite well. Memphis might be #9 .........but i think they wouldn't go because of bball......they want full membership. i dont think a name school would go for a football only deal....the BE will split and go to 12 all sports......within 10 years.

NO, we wouldn't go as a FB-only...and given the # of national TV appearances we garner on our own, who would want just our FB?

What will happen first?

Big East adds 9th football only member

or

Eight Big East FB playing schools split from 8 Big East non-FB playing schools (including ND), form an all sports conference, and add anywhere from one to four schools?

Army or Navy will not improve their recruiting by playing in a BCS conference. Remember the academies look for a certain student athlete and have to meet a criteria that is totally different from a regular institution. And money has never been an issue with recruiting from the academies standpoint. The extra BCS money could help them with upgrades to the athletic facility and other matters but they will always recruit basicly the same type of athlete.

The main reason Army is leaving is because they didn't compete well in CUSA and probably figure they can do bad on their own. They joined the conference because they thought they could compete and it gave them access to bowl games. We all know being an independent makes it hard to get invited to a bowl game except if you're Notre Dame. I think if Army had competed better and maybe got invited to a bowl game they would not be leaving. And I'm sure Navy playing in a bowl last year makes their decision to leave much easier.

I think here is the article everyone has been talking about....it does mention something about a football only member


Jackson




Big East working to regain national profile
Thursday, July 29, 2004

By Paul Zeise, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Commissioner Mike Tranghese helped create the Big East football conference, then watched it blossom into one of the nation's elite conferences in less than a decade.

And while he won't go as far as saying the Big East is starting over, he admitted yesterday that the conference has a whole lot of work to do in order to regain its national profile. He also knows it won't be quite as easy to get to the top again without a flagship program such as the University of Miami leading the way.

"I'm excited when I think about where we'll be in five years," Tranghese said at the Big East's annual preseason media day at Giants Stadium. "But you obviously can't replace Miami. I think we can become a great conference again from top to bottom, but I'm not sure we'll have a dominant team. All of our teams have to continue to improve and the new teams have to also.

"There is a lot of potential here, but there is also an uphill climb for us."

Tranghese, who announced the Big East has entered into an agreement with the Motor City Bowl, referred to the upcoming season as an "unusual year" because the conference is in transition. Miami and Virginia Tech have left the conference, Boston College and Temple are in their final season and Connecticut is in its first.

The conference will have seven teams this season, then add three members -- Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida -- next year. Tranghese said there is a chance the conference could add a fourth team -- a football-only member -- to making scheduling easier, but that isn't a priority.

Miami and Virginia Tech were two of the conference's top teams and much of its credibility stemmed from their presence. The challenge ahead is simple -- improve and do so quickly.

"Hey, we built it before and we can do it again and, frankly, I don't think we are all the way back to square one," Tranghese said. "In fact, we're much further ahead because back then, we didn't have television contracts, we didn't have bowl affiliations, we were on an island, we started from scratch.

"This isn't starting from scratch, it is more like an adjustment and a realignment. I think, however, we need to put all of that political stuff aside because we have seven teams who all think they can win this league this year. And the beauty of this is, the team that wins the league will get to play in a BCS bowl."

Although the Big East has retained its BCS berth, Tranghese said it is certainly no time to relax. BCS affiliations will be re-evaluated after the 2007 season, and the conference could lose its automatic bid at that time.

Most of the coaches in attendance agreed with Tranghese that the pressure is on, most are optimistic that the conference will again rise.

West Virginia coach Rich Rodriguez, whose Mountaineers are the favorite to win the conference this season, said the Big East has potential to be one of the best conferences in the country.

"If you're asking me to cry because I don't have to play Miami every year, I'm not going to, that's for sure," Rodriguez said jokingly.

"But obviously losing them and Virginia Tech is hard to overcome. But the thing is, the teams in this league are improving every year. And we will be a much stronger league than probably people nationally perceive us to be.

"It isn't going to happen this year, or next, but each year we will improve and, sooner than later, will be right back up where we were. I know we're supposed to be rooting for everyone else in the conference to do well, but I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time with that one. I want us to be good and everyone else to be awful, especially the week they play us."

Despite having only seven teams, the Big East could have as many as five bowl berths this year. The conference still has contracts with the Insight Bowl, Continental Tire Bowl, Gator Bowl and the BCS berth. Those spots are guaranteed provided the conference has four bowl-eligible teams.

The conference's affiliation with the Motor City Bowl doesn't guarantee a spot for a Big East team but could provide a fifth spot if circumstances are right.

The Motor City Bowl already has a contract with the Big Ten and Mid-American conferences, so the Big East can get a berth if the Big Ten doesn't have enough bowl-eligible teams to fill the spot.

But, if a spot is open, the Big East is guaranteed the berth only if the conference has a team with at least seven wins that hasn't been selected for another bowl. A six-win Big East team could earn the berth, but it isn't guaranteed.

"There are some circumstances where [a 6-5 team] might not be invited, but there would have to be a team from another conference who has distinguished itself exceptionally, and, by that I mean eight or nine wins, which is probably not going to happen," Tranghese said.

"It was hard to get something done because we're trying to make an adjustment in mid-year contracts. After next season [2005], there will be new contracts and we believe we'll have five solid bowl berths for our conference."
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HiddenDragon Wrote:Army or Navy will not improve their recruiting by playing in a BCS conference. Remember the academies look for a certain student athlete and have to meet a criteria that is totally different from a regular institution. And money has never been an issue with recruiting from the academies standpoint. The extra BCS money could help them with upgrades to the athletic facility and other matters but they will always recruit basicly the same type of athlete.

The main reason Army is leaving is because they didn't compete well in CUSA and probably figure they can do bad on their own. They joined the conference because they thought they could compete and it gave them access to bowl games. We all know being an independent makes it hard to get invited to a bowl game except if you're Notre Dame. I think if Army had competed better and maybe got invited to a bowl game they would not be leaving. And I'm sure Navy playing in a bowl last year makes their decision to leave much easier.

Actually, Army and Navy have shown a lot of interest in the Big East. I kind of think Army left C-USA for several reasons. The geography was horrible, putting a strain on their finances and C-USA schools were leaving, and Army thought C-USA might have been on their death bed at the time. Also, C-USA was turning itself into an All-Sports Conference and rebuilding itself so the football-only and basketball-only schools were leaving. Saying that they couldn't compete because of their criteria doesn't explain Air Force. Navy and Army can win in a conference if they play their cards right.

"Actually, Army and Navy have shown a lot of interest in the Big East. I kind of think Army left C-USA for several reasons. The geography was horrible, putting a strain on their finances and C-USA schools were leaving, and Army thought C-USA might have been on their death bed at the time. Also, C-USA was turning itself into an All-Sports Conference and rebuilding itself so the football-only and basketball-only schools were leaving. Saying that they couldn't compete because of their criteria doesn't explain Air Force. Navy and Army can win in a conference if they play their cards right. "


--Cat's Claw is correct.....a lot of people think the BE and Army and Navy have beent talking for a while...Army spent some major $$ on Bobby Ross for a reason


Jackson

I'm not saying Army and Navy wouldn't be interested in the BE. Why not? Geographic wise it makes sense. I think Cat sometimes spins things too much. Geography was terrible for Army. But CUSA schools leaving had nothing to do with their decision to leave. They had already made up their minds they were leaving way before left the realignment stuff had even been discuss so it had nothing to do with their decision.

And I'm not saying Army and Navy can't compete in the BE although history shows they haven't been too competitive in football in recent decades. A good year or two every blue moon but that's about it.

Now you may have a point with Air Force. I think Air Force get better athletes than Army or Navy because for the most part they have always been affiliated with a conference and their system fits perfectly to the type of student/athlete they recruit. Air Force can sell the fact they play BYU, Utah, Colo St, and Fresno St. Army and Navy can't say that. Maybe Army and Navy joining the BE and playing Syracuse and Pitt may interest top notch student/athlete recruits interested in a military career as well. Cause you can't have a 2.0 GPA and expect to play with an academy.

Again, I don't think BCS money would affect the way Army and Navy recruits. Matter of fact, I would say money in general is not an issue with the academies. Air Force recruits well without BCS money so that somewhat proves my point. But maybe being affiliated with a conference with teams from their region would help them tremendously.

Where did I spin anything? I mean it doesn't make sense to say that Army left C-USA because they couldn't compete there and now they're talking about potentially joining the Big East. If they couldn't compete in a conference why would they go to ANOTHER conference? You even prove my point about saying that maybe Army going to a conference that is geographically friendly would help them. So, if that's the case, don't you think it's also the reason they left C-USA, because it WASN'T geographically friendly? Heck, Army and Navy discussed joining C-USA in a package deal, so why would Army go back to a conference they left because they couldn't compete in it? Probably because going in a package deal with Navy would allow Army to schedule more geographically friendly schools, something C-USA didn't allow them. And money is an issue, as the article states, Army is leaving huge coin in C-USA. Even if they couldn't compete they would be financially secure so it stands to reason that it is more then being unable to compete in C-USA that is driving Army out of the conference and possibly into the Big East.

Here's an article talking about Army leaving. It was speculated by a reporter and C-USA that the reason Army left was for competitive reason, but Army stated their reasons why they left, and it's not be "spinning", it's reported in this article, I'll highlight it:

Army bolts C-USA
Black Knights will play as independent after '04 season

By Justin Rodriguez
Times Herald-Record
jrodriguez@th-record.com

The future of Army football isn't in Conference USA.
Where is it?
Academy officials announced yesterday that the Black Knights are leaving the league after the 2004 season. Army will play an independent schedule in '05.
That's big news. But it didn't move the players.
"I think people at West Point are true student athletes, I don't know if that holds true at some Conference USA schools," said Army sophomore quarterback Connor Crehan, who was informed of the announcement by the Times Herald-Record. "It's nice to be part of a conference, but as an independent you have the freedom to schedule who you want. I think it's a good move for us."
West Point superintendent Lt. Gen. William J. Lennox thought it was a good move. Lennox sealed the deal after consulting with the advisory panel he commissioned last December to evaluate the football program. Members of the panel include former Nebraska coach Tom Osborne and Dallas Cowboys coach Bill Parcells.
Lennox gave several reasons for Army leaving C-USA, including:
- The league's limited scheduling flexibility as the eight conference games and two intraservice contests – against Navy and Air Force – leave only two opportunities to schedule a regional or national opponent.
- Scheduling inflexibility limits revenue at Michie Stadium. The Black Knights host only one game in October this year.
Army has struggled in C-USA – 7-27 in five years – winning no more than two league games in a season. Coach Todd Berry is 5-29, 4-18 C-USA over his first three seasons.
"I would be naive to say we don't have expectations. Any time we lose a game it's disappointing," Army athletic director Rick Greenspan said. "We have a desire and plans to achieve success. I feel we can compete in Conference USA and that we will see that happen."
Berry was on vacation in Myrtle Beach, S.C., and unavailable for comment. Army released a statement from him, but it seems odd he wasn't on the teleconference, considering the importance of today's announcement.
Is Berry part of Army's future? Jim Cantelupe, Army co-captain in 1995, speaks for many former players who think Berry deserves most of the blame for Army's slide.
"We won't win football games in any conference until the leadership of the football program changes,'' Cantelupe said. "The pride and passion of Army football has been destroyed, and it will take a long time to get that back.''
Lennox and Greenspan first contacted C-USA commissioner Britton Banowsky about leaving in January. The pair informed Banowsky of their decision last week. Army paid a $400,000 exit fee.
"It doesn't surprise me," Banowsky said. "I know they had some tough times winning football games in the conference. I'm sure that had an influence on their decision. But it's a unique and wonderful university. They don't have the goals and the mission of a typical member."
Greenspan hopes to reinvigorate rivalries with Notre Dame, an independent, and Boston College in '05. He expects to schedule a I-AA opponent as well. Greenspan added that Army will continue to monitor the landscape in college football.
Some feel a move to the Big East would be a good fit for the Black Knights geographically and possibly competitively. But Army's future could come down to cold cash. The Black Knights lose out on potential revenue from five Bowl games with which C-USA is affiliated.
ESPN has a television package with C-USA, but Greenspan noted that Army hasn't been much a part of it. Playing games as an independent against fan-favorites such as Notre Dame and Penn State could produce large sums of money. But so could an affiliation with the Big East.
The Mid-American Conference seems to be the only other alternative outside the Big East.
"The panel took all this time to figure it out, so I guess they made the right decision," Army sophomore quarterback Zac Dahman said. "They're trying to do what's best for the program. I guess if we make a bowl game it's a good decision."
The panel identified other problems with the program, including a problem with the number and severity of injuries to Army players. To reduce this rate, the panel recommended limiting the schedule to 11 games. It also suggested hiring an additional strength coach, hiring a nutritionist and increasing the size of the team to 150 players.
One of the most talked-about suggestions by the panel is to consider modifying the five-year active duty service obligation after graduation. West Point graduates are required to serve on active duty for five years after graduating. The panel suggested concurrent service in the reserves or participation in Army's World Class Athlete Program.

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I like the service acadamies but they would be less compepative than Temple! We need a team that would improve the conferences strength of scedule!