(10-16-2012 10:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 08:34 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 12:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 12:43 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  

(10-14-2012 08:12 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Memphis not in a division with Louisville, and not playing them as a crossover? That ain't working.

Yet a very real possibility. In the bitter Cincinnati-Memphis-Louisville triumvirate, someone will get left of a cross-division rival situation (unless all three are together). Temple makes for a very logical addition to that group. You could line up Memphis-Louisville and Cincinnati-Temple which would be shorter geography...but I've figured all along we'd get paired with Temple in a cross-division rival set up.

Which is why the zipper doesn't really work. Three team groupings dont work with the zipper. What will they do with BYU, Boise, and SDSU?

Yes, they can work. You just put one west team in the other division, and make it a permanent crossover for one of the others. That's a pretty small sacrifice to your original idea, and allows all the other advantages of the zipper.

No--it doesnt work with 3 teams. Lets say Memphis and Cinicnatti are in one division and Louisville is in the other. Then Cinci will get a permanent crossover with Louisville, and Memphis gets Temple or someone else they could care less about.

The zipper works fine for pairs like Houston/SMU or UCF/USF. Not so good for 3 team groups like Rutgers/UConn/Temple. Out west the zipper will be a disaster--Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU gets paired with Navy---but they dont get to play Boise or BYU every year? The zipper may win out, but I dont see it lasting very long.

Yes, I can do math, lol.

You're missing my point. I was saying specifically that you can keep 2 of the 3 triads that you want together (UL-UC-UM and RU-TU-UConn) and only break up the one, and only have one game missing from that 3rd triad.

Even your example is screwed up. Now I see why you have been so adamant about it, but it is something that cannot mathematically happen, lol.

If Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU with Navy, then one each of those two pairs are in the same division, so they play, too. For example, let's say Boise and SDSU are in the same division. Then Boise will play both BYU and SDSU, and the only triad game missing would be SDSU and BYU, and SDSU gets Navy instead, which isn't so bad.

So, in my zipper, 8 of your 9 triad games will be played every season, and SDSU gets Navy instead of BYU. Seems like you're worrying about nothing, to me.

(10-16-2012 10:51 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 10:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 08:34 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 12:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 12:43 AM)99Tiger Wrote:  Yet a very real possibility. In the bitter Cincinnati-Memphis-Louisville triumvirate, someone will get left of a cross-division rival situation (unless all three are together). Temple makes for a very logical addition to that group. You could line up Memphis-Louisville and Cincinnati-Temple which would be shorter geography...but I've figured all along we'd get paired with Temple in a cross-division rival set up.

Which is why the zipper doesn't really work. Three team groupings dont work with the zipper. What will they do with BYU, Boise, and SDSU?

Yes, they can work. You just put one west team in the other division, and make it a permanent crossover for one of the others. That's a pretty small sacrifice to your original idea, and allows all the other advantages of the zipper.

No--it doesnt work with 3 teams. Lets say Memphis and Cinicnatti are in one division and Louisville is in the other. Then Cinci will get a permanent crossover with Louisville, and Memphis gets Temple or someone else they could care less about.

The zipper works fine for pairs like Houston/SMU or UCF/USF. Not so good for 3 team groups like Rutgers/UConn/Temple. Out west the zipper will be a disaster--Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU gets paired with Navy---but they dont get to play Boise or BYU every year? The zipper may win out, but I dont see it lasting very long.

Yes, I can do math, lol.

You're missing my point. I was saying specifically that you can keep 2 of the 3 triads that you want together (UL-UC-UM and RU-TU-UConn) and only break up the one, and only have one game missing from that 3rd triad.

Even your example is screwed up. Now I see why you have been so adamant about it, but it is something that cannot mathematically happen, lol.

If Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU with Navy, then one each of those two pairs are in the same division, so they play, too. For example, let's say Boise and SDSU are in the same division. Then Boise will play both BYU and SDSU, and the only triad game missing would be SDSU and BYU, and SDSU gets Navy instead, which isn't so bad.

So, in my zipper, 8 of your 9 triad games will be played every season, and SDSU gets Navy instead of BYU. Seems like you're worrying about nothing, to me.

I see what your saying. The Louisville, Memphis, Cinci triad would be the most likley to get split simply because they are in the middle of the country and could go either way. The other two triades are on the extreme west or east would be less likley to be split---but who knows?

(10-16-2012 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 10:51 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 10:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 08:34 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 12:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Which is why the zipper doesn't really work. Three team groupings dont work with the zipper. What will they do with BYU, Boise, and SDSU?

Yes, they can work. You just put one west team in the other division, and make it a permanent crossover for one of the others. That's a pretty small sacrifice to your original idea, and allows all the other advantages of the zipper.

No--it doesnt work with 3 teams. Lets say Memphis and Cinicnatti are in one division and Louisville is in the other. Then Cinci will get a permanent crossover with Louisville, and Memphis gets Temple or someone else they could care less about.

The zipper works fine for pairs like Houston/SMU or UCF/USF. Not so good for 3 team groups like Rutgers/UConn/Temple. Out west the zipper will be a disaster--Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU gets paired with Navy---but they dont get to play Boise or BYU every year? The zipper may win out, but I dont see it lasting very long.

Yes, I can do math, lol.

You're missing my point. I was saying specifically that you can keep 2 of the 3 triads that you want together (UL-UC-UM and RU-TU-UConn) and only break up the one, and only have one game missing from that 3rd triad.

Even your example is screwed up. Now I see why you have been so adamant about it, but it is something that cannot mathematically happen, lol.

If Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU with Navy, then one each of those two pairs are in the same division, so they play, too. For example, let's say Boise and SDSU are in the same division. Then Boise will play both BYU and SDSU, and the only triad game missing would be SDSU and BYU, and SDSU gets Navy instead, which isn't so bad.

So, in my zipper, 8 of your 9 triad games will be played every season, and SDSU gets Navy instead of BYU. Seems like you're worrying about nothing, to me.

I see what your saying. The Louisville, Memphis, Cinci triad would be the most likley to get split simply because they are in the middle of the country and could go either way. The other two triades are on the extreme west or east would be less likley to be split---but who knows?

You're assuming an east-west split, which is likely not happening. Rivalries should trump geography, anyway.

But either way, fine. Put UL and UC together, and make Memphis the Louisville crossover. Memphis could get by w/o playing UC in football, although I'd say we have a lot more history than SDSU and BYU. That's the reason I picked them.

Plus, if you don't split the western teams up, and you have a zipper, then you're screwing either SMU or Houston out of ever playing a western team. That's not an issue for the midwest/midsouth triad.

(10-16-2012 11:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 11:11 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 10:51 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 10:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 08:34 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Yes, they can work. You just put one west team in the other division, and make it a permanent crossover for one of the others. That's a pretty small sacrifice to your original idea, and allows all the other advantages of the zipper.

No--it doesnt work with 3 teams. Lets say Memphis and Cinicnatti are in one division and Louisville is in the other. Then Cinci will get a permanent crossover with Louisville, and Memphis gets Temple or someone else they could care less about.

The zipper works fine for pairs like Houston/SMU or UCF/USF. Not so good for 3 team groups like Rutgers/UConn/Temple. Out west the zipper will be a disaster--Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU gets paired with Navy---but they dont get to play Boise or BYU every year? The zipper may win out, but I dont see it lasting very long.

Yes, I can do math, lol.

You're missing my point. I was saying specifically that you can keep 2 of the 3 triads that you want together (UL-UC-UM and RU-TU-UConn) and only break up the one, and only have one game missing from that 3rd triad.

Even your example is screwed up. Now I see why you have been so adamant about it, but it is something that cannot mathematically happen, lol.

If Boise pairs with BYU and SDSU with Navy, then one each of those two pairs are in the same division, so they play, too. For example, let's say Boise and SDSU are in the same division. Then Boise will play both BYU and SDSU, and the only triad game missing would be SDSU and BYU, and SDSU gets Navy instead, which isn't so bad.

So, in my zipper, 8 of your 9 triad games will be played every season, and SDSU gets Navy instead of BYU. Seems like you're worrying about nothing, to me.

I see what your saying. The Louisville, Memphis, Cinci triad would be the most likley to get split simply because they are in the middle of the country and could go either way. The other two triades are on the extreme west or east would be less likley to be split---but who knows?

You're assuming an east-west split, which is likely not happening. Rivalries should trump geography, anyway.

But either way, fine. Put UL and UC together, and make Memphis the Louisville crossover. Memphis could get by w/o playing UC in football, although I'd say we have a lot more history than SDSU and BYU. That's the reason I picked them.

Plus, if you don't split the western teams up, and you have a zipper, then you're screwing either SMU or Houston out of ever playing a western team. That's not an issue for the midwest/midsouth triad.

lol. hey, I dont want to shaft anyone. Im the guy that doesnt want to split any of the triads. As for us, any way they set it is up Houston is going to have a ridiculous amount of travel. Theres not much they can do about that. Not really a huge factor---the original CUSA was almost as spread out. Back then we got alot less money---but still had nearly the same amount of travel....so I'm sure it will work out fine. Of the divisional set ups that give us an adavanatage---probably the north/south set up is best for us. Slightly less travel and fewer cold weather games.

^ Yeah, Memphis is almost in the same situation, but with north-south, you still have to go coast to coast, and that alignment would cut off the North division from both Texas, Florida and California. That ain't about to happen.

is the article it says they will have 14 teams next year doesnt that mean 2 new members then add 1 in 2015 when navy joins for 16 teams?

(10-16-2012 11:40 AM)TripleA Wrote:  ^ Yeah, Memphis is almost in the same situation, but with north-south, you still have to go coast to coast, and that alignment would cut off the North division from both Texas, Florida and California. That ain't about to happen.

6 team division Boise ,SdSt,SMU,Houston,Memphis,CFLA (all new to BE)

6 team division SFLa,Louisville,Cinn,Rutgers,Conn,Temple(current BE)

(10-16-2012 12:09 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 11:40 AM)TripleA Wrote:  ^ Yeah, Memphis is almost in the same situation, but with north-south, you still have to go coast to coast, and that alignment would cut off the North division from both Texas, Florida and California. That ain't about to happen.

6 team division Boise ,SdSt,SMU,Houston,Memphis,CFLA (all new to BE)

6 team division SFLa,Louisville,Cinn,Rutgers,Conn,Temple(current BE)

Ugh, that's old BE vs. C-USA/MWC. None of the new members want to go for that.

(10-16-2012 12:08 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  is the article it says they will have 14 teams next year doesnt that mean 2 new members then add 1 in 2015 when navy joins for 16 teams?

Probably a mix-up about that item.

you can set it up where you have 2 triads(uconn/rutgers/temple and memphis/louisville.cincinnati) and 2 groups of 4(boise/sd state/navy/byu and ucf/south florida/houston/smu).have 1 triad in each division then split up each of the groups of 4 .

rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
temple------------------------------memphis
navy--------------------------------byu
san diego state----------------------boise state
central florida------------------------south florida
houston------------------------------smu

-or-


temple-----------------------------memphis
rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
navy-------------------------------san diego state
byu---------------------------------boise state
houston-----------------------------smu
central florida------------------------south florida


if you went to 16 with air force and 1 other western team air force joins navy division and other team goes with boise

(10-16-2012 12:44 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  you can set it up where you have 2 triads(uconn/rutgers/temple and memphis/louisville.cincinnati) and 2 groups of 4(boise/sd state/navy/byu and ucf/south florida/houston/smu).have 1 triad in each division then split up each of the groups of 4 .

rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
temple------------------------------memphis
navy--------------------------------byu
san diego state----------------------boise state
central florida------------------------south florida
houston------------------------------smu

-or-


temple-----------------------------memphis
rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
navy-------------------------------san diego state
byu---------------------------------boise state
houston-----------------------------smu
central florida------------------------south florida


if you went to 16 with air force and 1 other western team air force joins navy division and other team goes with boise

Comes out to the same answer I had in mind with previous posts, but explained better this way.

(10-16-2012 12:44 PM)Chris02M Wrote:  you can set it up where you have 2 triads(uconn/rutgers/temple and memphis/louisville.cincinnati) and 2 groups of 4(boise/sd state/navy/byu and ucf/south florida/houston/smu).have 1 triad in each division then split up each of the groups of 4 .

rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
temple------------------------------memphis
navy--------------------------------byu
san diego state----------------------boise state
central florida------------------------south florida
houston------------------------------smu

-or-


temple-----------------------------memphis
rutgers-----------------------------louisville
uconn------------------------------cincinnati
navy-------------------------------san diego state
byu---------------------------------boise state
houston-----------------------------smu
central florida------------------------south florida


if you went to 16 with air force and 1 other western team air force joins navy division and other team goes with boise

As Ive said a million times, I prefer not to divide any of the triads. It causes way more problems and prevents rivalries from forming where they are most likely to naturally occurr. Thats just a poor idea over the long run and is why the WAC broke up.

However, if we go with a set up like this, there is zero reason to give teams a permanant crossover that dont have a natural crossover rival. For example, a permanant Temple vs Memphis crossover serves no purpose. Just let those teams rotate through the other division. That lets them at least see the teams in the other division more often. FYI--These permanent crossovers mean teams from the other division will visit your home field once every 12 years. I understand that we are probably going that direction--but I am not a fan of the zipper...at all

Can you imagine how these discussions are going behind closed doors at the conference offices? There appears to be no easy answer. Just a consequence of going coast to coast, I guess...

(10-16-2012 01:52 PM)Bull Wrote:  Can you imagine how these discussions are going behind closed doors at the conference offices? There appears to be no easy answer. Just a consequence of going coast to coast, I guess...

East west: Boise St,SD St,SMU,Houston,memphis,louisville

CFla.Sfla,Conn,Temple,Conn,Rutgers,Cinn

(10-16-2012 02:13 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 01:52 PM)Bull Wrote:  Can you imagine how these discussions are going behind closed doors at the conference offices? There appears to be no easy answer. Just a consequence of going coast to coast, I guess...

East west: Boise St,SD St,SMU,Houston,memphis,louisville

CFla.Sfla,Conn,Temple,Conn,Rutgers,Cinn

...that Conn. vs. Conn. match up will be a real *****. The home team willbe left wondering how so many visiting fans snuck in and took over.

(10-16-2012 02:13 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 01:52 PM)Bull Wrote:  Can you imagine how these discussions are going behind closed doors at the conference offices? There appears to be no easy answer. Just a consequence of going coast to coast, I guess...

East west: Boise St,SD St,SMU,Houston,memphis,louisville

CFla.Sfla,Conn,Temple,Conn,Rutgers,Cinn

That's UL and a bunch of new teams. Louisville ain't gonna like that.

yes like the division above by far the best go with Tradition it takes time to get rivals and we are on our way in that grouping!

(10-16-2012 02:56 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  yes like the division above by far the best go with Tradition it takes time to get rivals and we are on our way in that grouping!

I believe the far west teams Boise St,SD St and the 14th(BYU or Air Force)will be in one division.Along with SMU and Houston.

I believe the northeastern schools Conn,Navy(13th),Temple and Rutgers will be in another division.

That leaves the two Florida schools (CFLA and SFLA)
as well as Cinn,Louisville and Memphis

My assumption is Memphis will be with western division.

Thats four schools to select from from to complete the divisions.
With only one school left needed for the west,I would assume CFLA will go west.

The anwsers get a lot easier if you move to nine conference games and try to keep the regional teams together. In some ways adding Air Force works because it makes moving to nine games easier. That would allow Navy room for Notre Dame, Army, and one non-conference which is pretty much thing they will with a game conference schedule if BYU was added.

(10-16-2012 05:07 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(10-16-2012 02:56 PM)Bearcat T Wrote:  yes like the division above by far the best go with Tradition it takes time to get rivals and we are on our way in that grouping!

I believe the far west teams Boise St,SD St and the 14th(BYU or Air Force)will be in one division.Along with SMU and Houston.

I believe the northeastern schools Conn,Navy(13th),Temple and Rutgers will be in another division.

That leaves the two Florida schools (CFLA and SFLA)
as well as Cinn,Louisville and Memphis

My assumption is Memphis will be with western division.

Thats four schools to select from from to complete the divisions.
With only one school left needed for the west,I would assume CFLA will go west.

I'll bet you a six-pack that the BE will not wind up with east-west divisions, from 2015 forward, at least.