Though I am a big proponent of Cincy and Memphis, I would not want them in the ACC right now. It would just be too big. Cincy would be competitive. Memphis we have a long standing bitter rivalry with. UConn would be acceptable too. They would add a great new Northeastern market. But again, now is not the time.

(12-03-2012 08:06 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Though I am a big proponent of Cincy and Memphis, I would not want them in the ACC right now. It would just be too big. Cincy would be competitive. Memphis we have a long standing bitter rivalry with. UConn would be acceptable too. They would add a great new Northeastern market. But again, now is not the time.

No no a thousand times no. Lobby ahead on Cincinnati. But we've got a surplus of northeast schools with no football prowess or following already. No mas.

(12-03-2012 05:54 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:32 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  The ACC should pick up UCONN, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

OK, not trying to be a jerk or anything, but this is like the second or third time I have seen this suggestion. I can understand why you would suggest Uconn and Cincy, but why Memphis?

He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

(12-03-2012 12:54 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  Some people are predicting the Big Ten may double up the ACC's tv contract come 2016 when their contract expires. I've seen a respected Atlanta columnist mention $25-30M for the SEC once their current negotiations are done.

That's significant money. The fact that a conference that nearly dissolved recently is making more tv revenue AND has better bowl revenue than the ACC is pitiful.

Yep! serious money............but the SEC figures are just speculation at this point.

(12-03-2012 08:59 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:54 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:32 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  The ACC should pick up UCONN, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

OK, not trying to be a jerk or anything, but this is like the second or third time I have seen this suggestion. I can understand why you would suggest Uconn and Cincy, but why Memphis?

He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

Who said lobbyists only inhabit Washington, DC?

(12-03-2012 09:56 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 12:54 PM)JustAnotherName Wrote:  Some people are predicting the Big Ten may double up the ACC's tv contract come 2016 when their contract expires. I've seen a respected Atlanta columnist mention $25-30M for the SEC once their current negotiations are done.

That's significant money. The fact that a conference that nearly dissolved recently is making more tv revenue AND has better bowl revenue than the ACC is pitiful.

Yep! serious money............but the SEC figures are just speculation at this point.

I think it's fair to assume the most-watched conference will be paid like it, even if the Big Ten eventually surpasses them in 2016.

I think BIG is looking to expand and concerned about what the NCAA may do with Penn State. If Penn State can't participate for years in conference activities including football, that may start another round including BIG looking for ACC and UNC and Virginia.

No offense but the only people think Memphis is a national brand are fans of Memphis.

(12-04-2012 03:22 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 08:59 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:54 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:32 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  The ACC should pick up UCONN, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

OK, not trying to be a jerk or anything, but this is like the second or third time I have seen this suggestion. I can understand why you would suggest Uconn and Cincy, but why Memphis?

He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

A couple points.

1. We got all the basketball we need, considering basketball is a diminishing part of the equation these days.

2. History shows that even if Memphis were to have a run of a few successful years, they will quickly resume being what they are.....a mediocre to bad football program.

(12-04-2012 07:13 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 03:22 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 08:59 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:54 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:32 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  The ACC should pick up UCONN, Cincinnati, and Memphis.

OK, not trying to be a jerk or anything, but this is like the second or third time I have seen this suggestion. I can understand why you would suggest Uconn and Cincy, but why Memphis?

He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

A couple points.

1. We got all the basketball we need, considering basketball is a diminishing part of the equation these days.

2. History shows that even if Memphis were to have a run of a few successful years, they will quickly resume being what they are.....a mediocre to bad football program.

Well, lets put this this way...

A bunch of very smart men who are investors including billionaire's from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, a New Jersey mogul, and many others think investing in Memphis Sports is a great bet as they just purchased the Memphis Grizzlies for over 375 million and re-upped the lease to keep the team in Memphis for the next 20 years. That team also currently has the best record in the NBA. Not too shabby for lil' ole Memphis.

And if you don't think Memphis can do football too, you would be mistaken. Just like with the NBA, all we need is an opportunity.

(12-07-2012 03:34 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 07:13 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 03:22 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 08:59 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 05:54 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  OK, not trying to be a jerk or anything, but this is like the second or third time I have seen this suggestion. I can understand why you would suggest Uconn and Cincy, but why Memphis?

He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

A couple points.

1. We got all the basketball we need, considering basketball is a diminishing part of the equation these days.

2. History shows that even if Memphis were to have a run of a few successful years, they will quickly resume being what they are.....a mediocre to bad football program.

Well, lets put this this way...

A bunch of very smart men who are investors including billionaire's from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, a New Jersey mogul, and many others think investing in Memphis Sports is a great bet as they just purchased the Memphis Grizzlies for over 375 million and re-upped the lease to keep the team in Memphis for the next 20 years. That team also currently has the best record in the NBA. Not too shabby for lil' ole Memphis.

And if you don't think Memphis can do football too, you would be mistaken. Just like with the NBA, all we need is an opportunity.

The fact that you included Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning as investors in the Memphis Grizzlies as evidence as to why the University of Memphis would be a good add for the ACC is why Memphis will never be in the ACC. It's the exact wrong sport, the exact wrong level, and the exact wrong people calling the shots. Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning.... really? How do either of those add credibility? And anyone who lived through the late 90's knows the silicon valley smarts don't necessarily mean business smarts (let alone sports business smarts).

1. Having investors in the form of "billionaire's [sic] from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, [and] a New Jersey mogul" is not an overwhelming vote of confidence, but that's neither here not there.

2. Professional basketball does not help college athletics. If anything, pro ball hurts colleges, because it competes for fans interest and corporate sponsorships.

3. Even if pro ball did help college ball, pro basketball has nothing to do with college football, which is what the ACC really needs. In basketball, the ACC has Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, and UL, plus NCST, FSU, ND, plus GT and Wake (which are down). Memphis would be the 8th best team in the conference (after Duke, UNC, SU, Pitt, UL, and two of ND, NCST, FSU, WF, and GT). That isn't good enough to help the ACC's position, even if the ACC needed basketball.

4. Memphis football is very bad, and Memphis will never consistently out-recruit Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Mizzou, Arkansas, 'Ole Miss, MSU, and possibly even Kentucky.

5. Memphis academics are very bad.

6. Who watches Memphis? They don't add anything to the TV package. Their lack of a contribution is going to be even more clear if you are right, and the Grizzilies take off. When Memphis has to compete with a strong Grizzlies team, i just don't see TV sets tuned into Memphis ball.

7. Who goes to Memphis football games? (I honestly don't know. This isn't rhetorical.)

8. I would be amazed if Memphis had good olympic sports.

So, other than (the possibility of) a bowl against the #8 SEC tea, and tourist location featured in National Geographic that we could visit anyway, what does Memphis bring to the ACC?

(sorry, I feel like I come off harsh, but I don't mean to. I just don't see the upside of Memphis)

I think the points I make have been laid out clearly and I don't see where your arguments against my points have merit. In fact, much of what you say is just flat wrong. Like Memphis has bad academics -- not true.

• Memphis is among the top 10 in APR -- http://www.gotigersgo.com/genrel/062012aai.html

• Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong. The Memphis Grizzlies have absolutely improved recruiting in College basketball. Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University.

• Nobody watches Memphis or goes to games -- Wrong again. We are down now, this is true. But, Memphis did a 2.1 rating in a 2005-2006 bowl game against Bowling Green the last time we were good in football, which beat out several marquee games that year including the Syracuse-Georgia Tech game which did a 1.9. When Memphis is good again, which is about to happen, the eye balls will be there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and let others who would read this decide for themselves as to who makes the most sense.

I will, however, leave you with this: Visionaries see things not as they are presently, but as they could be based on indicators that point you in a particular direction. All indicators point to the ACC losing more teams and to Memphis being on the rise. The ACC would make a smart bet in placing value in Memphis now while they are still at a low price and can be had.

Thanks for the debate.

(12-07-2012 04:03 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:34 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 07:13 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 03:22 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-03-2012 08:59 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  He makes me wish I knew how to downrate a post.

Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

A couple points.

1. We got all the basketball we need, considering basketball is a diminishing part of the equation these days.

2. History shows that even if Memphis were to have a run of a few successful years, they will quickly resume being what they are.....a mediocre to bad football program.

Well, lets put this this way...

A bunch of very smart men who are investors including billionaire's from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, a New Jersey mogul, and many others think investing in Memphis Sports is a great bet as they just purchased the Memphis Grizzlies for over 375 million and re-upped the lease to keep the team in Memphis for the next 20 years. That team also currently has the best record in the NBA. Not too shabby for lil' ole Memphis.

And if you don't think Memphis can do football too, you would be mistaken. Just like with the NBA, all we need is an opportunity.

The fact that you included Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning as investors in the Memphis Grizzlies as evidence as to why the University of Memphis would be a good add for the ACC is why Memphis will never be in the ACC. It's the exact wrong sport, the exact wrong level, and the exact wrong people calling the shots. Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning.... really? How do either of those add credibility? And anyone who lived through the late 90's knows the silicon valley smarts don't necessarily mean business smarts (let alone sports business smarts).

1. Having investors in the form of "billionaire's [sic] from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, [and] a New Jersey mogul" is not an overwhelming vote of confidence, but that's neither here not there.

2. Professional basketball does not help college athletics. If anything, pro ball hurts colleges, because it competes for fans interest and corporate sponsorships.

3. Even if pro ball did help college ball, pro basketball has nothing to do with college football, which is what the ACC really needs. In basketball, the ACC has Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, and UL, plus NCST, FSU, ND, plus GT and Wake (which are down). Memphis would be the 8th best team in the conference (after Duke, UNC, SU, Pitt, UL, and two of ND, NCST, FSU, WF, and GT). That isn't good enough to help the ACC's position, even if the ACC needed basketball.

4. Memphis football is very bad, and Memphis will never consistently out-recruit Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Mizzou, Arkansas, 'Ole Miss, MSU, and possibly even Kentucky.

5. Memphis academics are very bad.

6. Who watches Memphis? They don't add anything to the TV package. Their lack of a contribution is going to be even more clear if you are right, and the Grizzilies take off. When Memphis has to compete with a strong Grizzlies team, i just don't see TV sets tuned into Memphis ball.

7. Who goes to Memphis football games? (I honestly don't know. This isn't rhetorical.)

8. I would be amazed if Memphis had good olympic sports.

So, other than (the possibility of) a bowl against the #8 SEC tea, and tourist location featured in National Geographic that we could visit anyway, what does Memphis bring to the ACC?

(sorry, I feel like I come off harsh, but I don't mean to. I just don't see the upside of Memphis)

spot on!

(12-07-2012 05:24 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  I think the points I make have been laid out clearly and I don't see where your arguments against my points have merit. In fact, much of what you say is just flat wrong. Like Memphis has bad academics -- not true.

• Memphis is among the top 10 in APR -- http://www.gotigersgo.com/genrel/062012aai.html

• Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong. The Memphis Grizzlies have absolutely improved recruiting in College basketball. Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University.

• Nobody watches Memphis or goes to games -- Wrong again. We are down now, this is true. But, Memphis did a 2.1 rating in a 2005-2006 bowl game against Bowling Green the last time we were good in football, which beat out several marquee games that year including the Syracuse-Georgia Tech game which did a 1.9. When Memphis is good again, which is about to happen, the eye balls will be there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and let others who would read this decide for themselves as to who makes the most sense.

I will, however, leave you with this: Visionaries see things not as they are presently, but as they could be based on indicators that point you in a particular direction. All indicators point to the ACC losing more teams and to Memphis being on the rise. The ACC would make a smart bet in placing value in Memphis now while they are still at a low price and can be had.

Thanks for the debate.

The ACC doesn't need basketball...they need football. It doesn't matter if the NBA helps basketball, it's irrelevant. If that is the root of your argument then the entire argument is irrelevant. Who cares who invested in what...tons of people invested in housing market and that sure didn't stop it from collapsing.

(12-07-2012 05:24 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  I think the points I make have been laid out clearly and I don't see where your arguments against my points have merit. In fact, much of what you say is just flat wrong. Like Memphis has bad academics -- not true.

• Memphis is among the top 10 in APR -- http://www.gotigersgo.com/genrel/062012aai.html

• Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong. The Memphis Grizzlies have absolutely improved recruiting in College basketball. Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University.

• Nobody watches Memphis or goes to games -- Wrong again. We are down now, this is true. But, Memphis did a 2.1 rating in a 2005-2006 bowl game against Bowling Green the last time we were good in football, which beat out several marquee games that year including the Syracuse-Georgia Tech game which did a 1.9. When Memphis is good again, which is about to happen, the eye balls will be there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and let others who would read this decide for themselves as to who makes the most sense.

I will, however, leave you with this: Visionaries see things not as they are presently, but as they could be based on indicators that point you in a particular direction. All indicators point to the ACC losing more teams and to Memphis being on the rise. The ACC would make a smart bet in placing value in Memphis now while they are still at a low price and can be had.

Thanks for the debate.

1. Memphis' US News academic rank is between 205-270 as per wikipedia. By ACC standards, Memphis academic are bad (the next lowest in the ACC is UL and NCST after that, and UL is something like 130, and NCST is something like 106). Actually, I think that is outdated. As of right now, I don't think US News even ranks Memphis. Although, I do applaud you for having a high APR.

"University of Memphis's ranking in the 2013 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, Tier 2."
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...mphis-3509

"U.S. News & World Report[5] 205–270"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Memphis

2. "Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong." If Memphis pro sports help college sports, then Memphis is one h*ll of an outlier. Pro sports hurt college sports in every other city on the planet Earth. But, none-the-less, I don't know a ton about Memphis, so I'll bite. "Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University." How? Every other team (I think witout exception) that uses pro facilities takes cr*p for it. Why is Memphis different? In what way do the Memphis Grizzlies improve the University of Memphis' exposure? How does playing in a NBA town benefit Memphis? And finally, what makes Memphis an outlier? In other words, why is it that the Grizzlies don't compete with Memphis for attention and exposure, like pro teams do in every other city? I am not saying that you are wrong, but you will have to give me specifics to get me to believe you.

(ask Miami football what it's like to deal with the Dolphins/use pro facilities and ask DePaul basketball what it's like to deal with the Bulls/use pro facilities - both those teams have played in NC games in the past, so they aren't cherry-picked cream-puff teams, but both teams are in substantial rough patches and having trouble recruiting and getting fans to go to games.)

3. Syracuse went 1-10 in 2005-2006. You are thinking of 2004-2005 when we got destroyed by GTech, which was why the ratings for that game were bad. We were losing a billion to nothing, so the SU fans weren't watching because it was painful, and the GT fans weren't watching because it was boring. Syracuse got a 2.6 (I think) against Kansas State in our next bowl game (2010). H*ll, Syracuse got a 3.1 this year in a regular season game (albeit against USC, but regular season none-the-less).

4. Finally, why should the ACC take a risk on Memphis when we can wait to see if Memphis progresses and the add Memphis later if it is worth our while? Beyond that, why take Memphis over Cinci? UC has great football (I think they have won something like 3 BIG EAST championships in 4 years, or maybe it is 4 in 5 years) and great basketball.

(12-07-2012 05:39 PM)krux Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 04:03 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 03:34 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 07:13 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(12-04-2012 03:22 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  Why Memphis? So easy to answer...

Memphis is a National brand that is in the heart of SEC counrty. It has the The Liberty Bowl which has rich history and could be re-marketed.

Memphis is a destination that is fun to visit for visiting fan bases. Voted awesome city by National Geographic: http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/tra...00x450.jpg

Potential: It has proven success in basketball and is consistently top 10 in attendance. Memphis has a huge following. It can in football too when placed in a conference that allows the school to recruit at a high level. Presently recruits near Memphis go to SEC schools but they could keep some home if they were added to the ACC. Memphis hired a new head coach in Offensive coordinator from TCU, Justin Fuente and he has started to turn the program into a winner. A lot of money and resources are being invested in football now.

Corporate Sponsorships: FedEx, AutoZone, International Paper, Service-master call Memphis home and would support the ACC and the Memphis program which would elevate the conference.

Recruiting: Memphis is located in the heart of the SEC. It has a ton fertile recruiting ground that would open up to Memphis and the other ACC schools if Memphis were added.

Rivalries: Memphis natural rival is Louisville but would also quickly develop highly anticipated matches with many of the ACC schools.

Memphis brings great basketball, a national brand, eyeballs, rivalries, and a TON of untapped potential. Football will improve drastically over the next couple years making it a complete package. Maybe Bear Bryant put it best when he called Memphis "a sleeping giant". Who will wake the giant?

A couple points.

1. We got all the basketball we need, considering basketball is a diminishing part of the equation these days.

2. History shows that even if Memphis were to have a run of a few successful years, they will quickly resume being what they are.....a mediocre to bad football program.

Well, lets put this this way...

A bunch of very smart men who are investors including billionaire's from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, a New Jersey mogul, and many others think investing in Memphis Sports is a great bet as they just purchased the Memphis Grizzlies for over 375 million and re-upped the lease to keep the team in Memphis for the next 20 years. That team also currently has the best record in the NBA. Not too shabby for lil' ole Memphis.

And if you don't think Memphis can do football too, you would be mistaken. Just like with the NBA, all we need is an opportunity.

The fact that you included Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning as investors in the Memphis Grizzlies as evidence as to why the University of Memphis would be a good add for the ACC is why Memphis will never be in the ACC. It's the exact wrong sport, the exact wrong level, and the exact wrong people calling the shots. Justin Timberlake and Peyton Manning.... really? How do either of those add credibility? And anyone who lived through the late 90's knows the silicon valley smarts don't necessarily mean business smarts (let alone sports business smarts).

1. Having investors in the form of "billionaire's [sic] from silicon valley, Justin Timberlake, Peyton Manning, [and] a New Jersey mogul" is not an overwhelming vote of confidence, but that's neither here not there.

2. Professional basketball does not help college athletics. If anything, pro ball hurts colleges, because it competes for fans interest and corporate sponsorships.

3. Even if pro ball did help college ball, pro basketball has nothing to do with college football, which is what the ACC really needs. In basketball, the ACC has Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt, and UL, plus NCST, FSU, ND, plus GT and Wake (which are down). Memphis would be the 8th best team in the conference (after Duke, UNC, SU, Pitt, UL, and two of ND, NCST, FSU, WF, and GT). That isn't good enough to help the ACC's position, even if the ACC needed basketball.

4. Memphis football is very bad, and Memphis will never consistently out-recruit Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Mizzou, Arkansas, 'Ole Miss, MSU, and possibly even Kentucky.

5. Memphis academics are very bad.

6. Who watches Memphis? They don't add anything to the TV package. Their lack of a contribution is going to be even more clear if you are right, and the Grizzilies take off. When Memphis has to compete with a strong Grizzlies team, i just don't see TV sets tuned into Memphis ball.

7. Who goes to Memphis football games? (I honestly don't know. This isn't rhetorical.)

8. I would be amazed if Memphis had good olympic sports.

So, other than (the possibility of) a bowl against the #8 SEC tea, and tourist location featured in National Geographic that we could visit anyway, what does Memphis bring to the ACC?

(sorry, I feel like I come off harsh, but I don't mean to. I just don't see the upside of Memphis)

spot on!

Oh, I missed the LOL post on where Memphis would be in basketball in the ACC!

After Duke, UNC, SU, Pitt, UL, and two of ND, NCST, FSU, WF, and GT). Seriously? LOL!

Obviously Duke, NC, and SU. But after that it's UL and then Memphis and the rest are not even close. Don't take my word for it -- here is ESPN's word -- they know a little something about sports. Memphis no. 19. Ahead of all the other schools you mentioned.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...19-memphis

Once again...we don't need basketball help. No reason to argue that point at all.

(12-07-2012 05:45 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 05:24 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  I think the points I make have been laid out clearly and I don't see where your arguments against my points have merit. In fact, much of what you say is just flat wrong. Like Memphis has bad academics -- not true.

• Memphis is among the top 10 in APR -- http://www.gotigersgo.com/genrel/062012aai.html

• Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong. The Memphis Grizzlies have absolutely improved recruiting in College basketball. Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University.

• Nobody watches Memphis or goes to games -- Wrong again. We are down now, this is true. But, Memphis did a 2.1 rating in a 2005-2006 bowl game against Bowling Green the last time we were good in football, which beat out several marquee games that year including the Syracuse-Georgia Tech game which did a 1.9. When Memphis is good again, which is about to happen, the eye balls will be there.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and let others who would read this decide for themselves as to who makes the most sense.

I will, however, leave you with this: Visionaries see things not as they are presently, but as they could be based on indicators that point you in a particular direction. All indicators point to the ACC losing more teams and to Memphis being on the rise. The ACC would make a smart bet in placing value in Memphis now while they are still at a low price and can be had.

Thanks for the debate.

1. Memphis' US News academic rank is between 205-270 as per wikipedia. By ACC standards, Memphis academic are bad (the next lowest in the ACC is UL and NCST after that, and UL is something like 130, and NCST is something like 106). Actually, I think that is outdated. As of right now, I don't think US News even ranks Memphis. Although, I do applaud you for having a high APR.

"University of Memphis's ranking in the 2013 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, Tier 2."
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...mphis-3509

"U.S. News & World Report[5] 205–270"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Memphis

2. "Memphis Pro sports don't help college sports - wrong." If Memphis pro sports help college sports, then Memphis is one h*ll of an outlier. Pro sports hurt college sports in every other city on the planet Earth. But, none-the-less, I don't know a ton about Memphis, so I'll bite. "Playing in an NBA town in an NBA arena and having national exposure have certainly helped the University." How? Every other team (I think witout exception) that uses pro facilities takes cr*p for it. Why is Memphis different? In what way do the Memphis Grizzlies improve the University of Memphis' exposure? How does playing in a NBA town benefit Memphis? And finally, what makes Memphis an outlier? In other words, why is it that the Grizzlies don't compete with Memphis for attention and exposure, like pro teams do in every other city? I am not saying that you are wrong, but you will have to give me specifics to get me to believe you.

3. Syracuse went 1-10 in 2005-2006. You are thinking of 2004-2005 when we got destroyed by GTech, which was why the ratings for that game were bad. We were losing a billion to nothing, so the SU fans weren't watching because it was painful, and the GT fans weren't watching because it was boring. Syracuse got a 2.6 (I think) against Kansas State in our next bowl game (2010). H*ll, Syracuse got a 3.1 this year in a regular season game (albeit against USC, but regular season none-the-less).

4. Finally, why should the ACC take a risk on Memphis when we can wait to see if Memphis progresses and the add Memphis later if it is worth our while? Beyond that, why take Memphis over Cinci? UC has great football (I think they have won something like 3 BIG EAST championships in 4 years, or maybe it is 4 in 5 years) and great basketball.

1. You are right -- that is old data: Take a look at this -- http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...mphis-3509

Memphis actually boasts one of the nations best law schools.

2. Memphis has the 3rd ranked recruiting class next year in America http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...kings/2013
and the Grizzlies are the top team currently in the NBA simultaneously. They work together in concert here. I think its because the town is just the right size to support both adequately and Memphis is a HUGE sports town.

3. Okay lets take another sample: 2007-08 Bowl Game TV Ratings Humanitarian Bowl
Fresno St.-Georgia Tech
Rating: 0.77
attendance 27,062
New Orleans
Fla. Atlantic-Memphis
Rating:1.63
attendance 25,146

By the way, you may not know Memphis went to like 6 straight bowl games before we fell off recently when Tommy West had a heart attack and was fired. We averaged 40,000 fans in a 60,00 seat arena while playing in conference USA against football powers such as Rice and SMU.

4. The ACC could wait but there could be a death match between the Big 12 and the ACC. the ACC should take UCONN, CINNCI, and THEN Memphis. Ahead of South Florida. That is my position.

1. Unpublished means Unranked.

2. Basketball. Does. Not. Matter.

3. It's not secret the ACC needs football help and excitement. A project team is not going to help in that regard.

4. This is simply your opinion so there's really nothing to say here.