Athletic budgets, http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx Revenues or expenses, whichever was greater
Uconn 63
UNLV 54
Memphis 47
USF 44
SMU 43
Cincinnati 40
Temple 39
San Diego State 39
UCF 37
Hawaii 35
Houston 32
ECU 32
New Mexico 31
Boise State 31
Wyoming 30
Fresno State 29
Tulane 28
Colorado State 25
San Jose State 24
Utah State 22
Nevada-Reno 20
Navy Not Available
Air Force Not Available

And, most of the NBE schools, because of a combination of enrollment, endowment, and metro area population, have the ability to grow that number over 5-10 years.

Oh, this applies to SDSU staying, too.

I think the UNLV number is inflated by the Thomas and MAck Center budget, but I can't really tell how much. Their spending on teams is $25M, so I'd wildly guess their non-venue-related athletic budget is $35M, but who knows. Or maybe the T&M money is in a separate pot and the $57M is real.

I don't quite follow. What is the connection between athletic budgets and UH/SMU decisions to stay or go?

I would think that the football budget would be more meaningful to this discussion and, more than that, the extent of the football budget that springs from conference affiliation.

And in any event, this is a historical look backwards whereas decisions about conference affiliation tend to be based upon comparative projections into the future. The figures for existing nBE schools, for example, include income from a now defunct BCS autobid, as well as revenues from television contracts that are not sustainable.

I'm not being critical; there is only so much information available to we the lowly masses. I'm just not sure that what is available is really useful to anticipating what decisions will be.

Yoda out...

A bigger reason is not being Boise's .. B witch.

Bottom line ... the Big East schools are just a step ahead of the MWC schools. There are exceptions, but if you look at all of the possible criteria (endowment, U.S. News rankings, athletic budgets, attendance, market size, Sagarin rankings in BB and FB, whatever ...) the Big East schools are generally better than the MWC schools.

What it's going to come down to is what all these decisions come down to, money. If they can make more in the MWC then they will probably go, and if they can't they will stay. For Boise to go back the money just had to be close. Ties went to the MWC. For Houston and SMU the money has to be better than what they can get by staying.

SDSU is absolutely the right choice out of that conference......

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jan/...tain-west/

Quote:The 2011-2012 budgets of each Mountain West Conference school (most recent available figures):

FOOTBALL BUDGETS:

1. San Diego State, $11.75 million

2. Hawaii, $10.59 million

3. Colorado State, $8.9 million

4. Boise State, $8.54 million

5. New Mexico, $8.11 million

6. Fresno State, $7.25 million

7. Wyoming, $7.21 million

8. UNLV, $6.95 million

9. Nevada, $5.01 million

Air Force N/A

BASKETBALL BUDGETS:

1. New Mexico, $4.45 million

2. San Diego State, $4.43 million

3. UNLV, $3.76 million

4. Wyoming, $3.04 million

5. Colorado State, $2.43 million

6. Hawaii, $2.29 million

7. Fresno, $1.8 million

8. Boise State, $1.73 million

9. Nevada, $1.46 million

Air Force N/A

Source: U.S. Department of Education, Reno Gazette-Journal

The Associated Press

(01-02-2013 07:26 AM)Yoda Wrote:  I don't quite follow. What is the connection between athletic budgets and UH/SMU decisions to stay or go?

Athletics budgets are a marker of the resources a school has access to. That's why I used either revenues or expenses, whichever was higher. I marked the three swing schools in blue. The NBE schools have more of an ability to spend money to make money in their markets. By the same token, New Mexico has more ability to build itself up in Albuquerque than Nevada-REno does in Reno.

Quote:I would think that the football budget would be more meaningful to this discussion and,

Valid point.

Quote:more than that, the extent of the football budget that springs from conference affiliation.

Not so much--the contrast is in the non-conference money.

Quote:And in any event, this is a historical look backwards whereas decisions about conference affiliation tend to be based upon comparative projections into the future.

PRojections range from good guesses to complete, wild guesses.

Population and economic growth projections favor Tampa, Orlando and Philadelphia over Fresno and San Jose, not to mention Laramie, Logan and Reno. Aresco's and the NBE's rosy scenario is a lot rosier than the MWC's rosy scenario. And the NBE gloom-and-doom scenario is where they are now, about even with the MWC schools.

Quote:The figures for existing nBE schools, for example, include income from a now defunct BCS autobid, as well as revenues from television contracts that are not sustainable.

BCS autobid was $18M plus the BEFB contract $13.3M, divided by 8 schools is about $3.9M in Big East football earnings per school. Knock $4M off of UConn, Cincy and USF and they're still in the top half of the list.

USF, UConn and Cincy may take a haircut on their TV money (the roof has caved in, it could be less than the $3.7M they get now) but they're going to get something. Add what you expect the C-7 to get to what C-USA got in 2011 and that's your floor.

Quote:I'm not being critical; there is only so much information available to we the lowly masses. I'm just not sure that what is available is really useful to anticipating what decisions will be.

I don't mind people being critical, most of the point of posting is to have other people take a look and say "What about that?" Sometimes, like with using the football budget instead of the overall budget, it's something I haven't thought of.

Actually, I think the overall budget is the right number to use. Every school has a chunk of their athletic budget which isn't tagged for any sport. I have to figure that's stuff like weight rooms and athletic and practice facilities that are shared across the programs. So if Townsville State's common practice facility is a palace, while U of Townsville's is a dump, that helps TSU over UT in football, even if it doesn't show in the football budget.

(01-02-2013 08:31 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Bottom line ... the Big East schools are just a step ahead of the MWC schools. There are exceptions, but if you look at all of the possible criteria (endowment, U.S. News rankings, athletic budgets, attendance, market size, Sagarin rankings in BB and FB, whatever ...) the Big East schools are generally better than the MWC schools.

Something I didn't expect, without Houston, SMU and SDSU, the NBE and MWC effective markets are actually not that different.

NBE has better USNWR rankings, but MWC has state flagships/landgrants.
Attendance is pretty close too--the 10 NBE schools averaged 28000 from 1998-2011, the 12 MWC schools 26000.

What the NBE has is athletic budgets, endowments, and room to grow in their markets. Temple having 25000 in the stands and Wyoming having 25000 in the stands are different situations.

I think that I count 21 programs that have reported their budget numbers.

-8 of the top 11 are BE programs

-8 of the bottom 10 are MWC programs

There's just a huge difference in commitment and investment.....and that would include SDSU in the MWC.

Best thread in a while

(01-02-2013 08:34 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  For Houston and SMU the money has to be better than what they can get by staying.

Maybe, but there is an underlying critical question: Is it still about money or are people looking for a life raft? Because at some point, if Aresco can't stop the hemorrhaging, it shifts from one to the other.

If I were a nBE fan, the most troubling news item from the weekend wouldn't be the loss of Boise but the response of SMU and Houston to that loss. Unless I missed it, SMU said nothing, while Houston's statement sounded more like a resume than an endorsement of the conference or its commissioner. In fact, it didn't mention the Big East at all.

Yoda out...

We aren't gonna fly our ******* women's volleyball team back and forth, across the Great Divide.

(01-02-2013 09:39 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  We aren't gonna fly our ******* women's volleyball team back and forth, across the Great Divide.

So, no love for the Aztecs all-sports?

I don't think travel budgets are going to be a factor--getting in and out of NBE cities is easier than a bunch of MWC cities, but it's maybe $1M a year difference, tops. (I say that because that's about what Boise was paying the Big West, and it should cost Bakersfield and Long Beach and Sacramento about as much to get to Boise as it costs to get to those cities from Boise.)

Flying women's volleyball to Fresno and Reno and San Jose would be a pain, but you're comparing it to going to Storrs and Greenville and Cincinatti. If you want to save real money on travel, you'd have to go back to C-USA and bus-trip to Rice, UTSA, UNT, Tulsa, LT and Southern Miss. Otherwise, you're going across the country one direction or the other.

(01-02-2013 10:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 09:39 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  We aren't gonna fly our ******* women's volleyball team back and forth, across the Great Divide.

So, no love for the Aztecs all-sports?

I don't think travel budgets are going to be a factor--getting in and out of NBE cities is easier than a bunch of MWC cities, but it's maybe $1M a year difference, tops. (I say that because that's about what Boise was paying the Big West, and it should cost Bakersfield and Long Beach and Sacramento about as much to get to Boise as it costs to get to those cities from Boise.)

Flying women's volleyball to Fresno and Reno and San Jose would be a pain, but you're comparing it to going to Storrs and Greenville and Cincinatti. If you want to save real money on travel, you'd have to go back to C-USA and bus-trip to Rice, UTSA, UNT, Tulsa, LT and Southern Miss. Otherwise, you're going across the country one direction or the other.

Yeah, if you look at a map, we are a outlier either way.

(01-02-2013 09:04 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  What the NBE has is athletic budgets, endowments, and room to grow in their markets. Temple having 25000 in the stands and Wyoming having 25000 in the stands are different situations.

\

Moreover, Big East schools will make at least 3 times as much TV money and have more and better bowls, which will widen the budget gap in the future.

(01-02-2013 10:13 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 09:04 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  What the NBE has is athletic budgets, endowments, and room to grow in their markets. Temple having 25000 in the stands and Wyoming having 25000 in the stands are different situations.

\

Moreover, Big East schools will make at least 3 times as much TV money and have more and better bowls, which will widen the budget gap in the future.

Don't be surprised if that gap closes down to 2x the TV money when the contract is finally done. NBE is in better position for bowls geographically, but I think everyone's future bowls look like the MWC's current bowls--whatever scraps are left after the power conferences finish gorging themselves. That said, the New Orleans Bowl, the Armed Forces Bowl, and the Birmingham Bowl beat the Idaho Potato Bowl, New Mexico Bowl and the Hawaii Bowl (since apparently everyone hates the Hawaii Bowl).

(01-02-2013 10:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 10:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 09:39 AM)Cooglius Caeser Wrote:  We aren't gonna fly our ******* women's volleyball team back and forth, across the Great Divide.

So, no love for the Aztecs all-sports?

I don't think travel budgets are going to be a factor--getting in and out of NBE cities is easier than a bunch of MWC cities, but it's maybe $1M a year difference, tops. (I say that because that's about what Boise was paying the Big West, and it should cost Bakersfield and Long Beach and Sacramento about as much to get to Boise as it costs to get to those cities from Boise.)

Flying women's volleyball to Fresno and Reno and San Jose would be a pain, but you're comparing it to going to Storrs and Greenville and Cincinatti. If you want to save real money on travel, you'd have to go back to C-USA and bus-trip to Rice, UTSA, UNT, Tulsa, LT and Southern Miss. Otherwise, you're going across the country one direction or the other.

Yeah, if you look at a map, we are a outlier either way.

You are a 2.5 hour flight or less from most east coast cities

(01-02-2013 09:26 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 08:34 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  For Houston and SMU the money has to be better than what they can get by staying.

Maybe, but there is an underlying critical question: Is it still about money or are people looking for a life raft? Because at some point, if Aresco can't stop the hemorrhaging, it shifts from one to the other.

If I were a nBE fan, the most troubling news item from the weekend wouldn't be the loss of Boise but the response of SMU and Houston to that loss. Unless I missed it, SMU said nothing, while Houston's statement sounded more like a resume than an endorsement of the conference or its commissioner. In fact, it didn't mention the Big East at all.

Yoda out...

I think you're lost. Let me help.

http://www.csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=207

(01-02-2013 10:30 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I think you're lost. Let me help.

Nope. I'm not lost. You just don't like what I said. Kind of a difference.

I've made it quite clear through all of this that I am no more a fan of the MWC than I am of the nBE -- and no less of a fan either. That was not a pro one conference or con the other conference post. It wasn't a pleasant thought, perhaps, but it wasn't a troll either. As long as I follow the rules, I have a perfect right to be here -- whether or not you happen to like what I have to say.

Yoda out...

(01-02-2013 10:30 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 09:26 AM)Yoda Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 08:34 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  For Houston and SMU the money has to be better than what they can get by staying.

Maybe, but there is an underlying critical question: Is it still about money or are people looking for a life raft? Because at some point, if Aresco can't stop the hemorrhaging, it shifts from one to the other.

If I were a nBE fan, the most troubling news item from the weekend wouldn't be the loss of Boise but the response of SMU and Houston to that loss. Unless I missed it, SMU said nothing, while Houston's statement sounded more like a resume than an endorsement of the conference or its commissioner. In fact, it didn't mention the Big East at all.

Yoda out...

I think you're lost. Let me help.

http://www.csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=207

Exactly he likes to say Yoda out, but he aint out yet? Shoo Yoda!