I won't name names but I will say you couldn't be any further from the truth.

These are the Director's Cup Standings going all the way back to the 2005-2006 year:

2012-2013: Florida State #3 Texas #10 Notre Dame #4 (in progress)
2011-2012: Florida State #5 Texas #6 Notre Dame #17
2010-2011: Florida State #9 Texas #12 Notre Dame #18
2009-2010: Florida State #5 Texas #15 Notre Dame #27
2008-2009: Florida State #15 Texas #6 Notre Dame #21
2007-2008: Florida State #15 Texas #5 Notre Dame #21
2006-2007: Florida State #15 Texas #8 Notre Dame #22
2005-2006: Florida State #17 Texas #3 Notre Dame #6

So Florida State has had the best ranking each of the last 3+ years. And Notre Dame hasn't really come all that close to finishing higher than FSU in the last 6+ years.

I will ignore the "small" fanbase comment that was said in conjunction with calling FSU sports "weaker". I'm not sure how you exactly calculate a fanbase's size, but FSU routinely draws good tv ratings. Obviously tv ratings are what drive the revenue. I will also ignore the comment that it's pointless to give FSU the same deal as ND and potentially Texas. Alienating likely your largest revenue-generating member in such a manner is terrible business. It's that exact mindset that has many FSU fans wanting out of the ACC. FSU receives much less from the ACC than what it's worth. FSU is like Welfare to many of these ACC schools. But then some of you get all upset at FSU when FSU vents its frustrations with the way things are in this conference. Go figure.

This is definitely smack board material.

I never said that FSU has weak non-revenue sports. I said that compared to Notre Dame and Texas they do. You offered a nice rebuttal there, so I can't really say much.

I never said FSU has a "small fan base". I said that Texas has a larger fan base than FSU.

Quote:FSU receives much less from the ACC than what it's worth. FSU is like Welfare to many of these ACC schools. But then some of you get all upset at FSU when FSU vents its frustrations with the way things are in this conference. Go figure.

You're wrong. The ACC - FSU relationship is definitely symbiotic. The ACC elevated Florida State's national profile, in turn Florida State elevated the ACC's

Without the ACC are FSU's non-football sports competing at a high level? Probably not. In association with the ACC, FSU drastically increased their academic profile. That doesn't happen without the ACC.

Without FSU does the ACC become power in football? Probably not. In association with FSU, the ACC drastically increased its football profile. That doesn't happen without FSU.

Edit: That's why people get annoyed when FSU fans complain about the ACC. Without the ACC, FSU isn't in the position they're in now.

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  You're wrong. The ACC - FSU relationship is definitely symbiotic. The ACC elevated Florida State's national profile, in turn Florida State elevated the ACC's

You ever checked out FSU's bowl history before they joined the ACC?

There is a reason the ACC adding FSU was considered a coup, other than the perceived elimination of Clemson and the 6 dwarves.

Yes, before FSU was added the original ACC members failed to accomplish anything in football too.

Quote:Without the ACC are FSU's non-football sports competing at a high level? Probably not. In association with the ACC, FSU drastically increased their academic profile. That doesn't happen without the ACC.

FSU basketball went to the tournament 7 times before they joined the ACC.

They have been to the tournament 7 times since joining the ACC.

FSU baseball has made the postseason 35 years in a row.

How exactly has the ACC been a benefit for their non-football sports again?

(01-24-2013 11:53 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  You're wrong. The ACC - FSU relationship is definitely symbiotic. The ACC elevated Florida State's national profile, in turn Florida State elevated the ACC's

You ever checked out FSU's bowl history before they joined the ACC?

There is a reason the ACC adding FSU was considered a coup, other than the perceived elimination of Clemson and the 6 dwarves.

Yes, before FSU was added the original ACC members failed to accomplish anything in football too.

Quote:Without the ACC are FSU's non-football sports competing at a high level? Probably not. In association with the ACC, FSU drastically increased their academic profile. That doesn't happen without the ACC.

FSU basketball went to the tournament 7 times before they joined the ACC.

They have been to the tournament 7 times since joining the ACC.

FSU baseball has made the postseason 35 years in a row.

How exactly has the ACC been a benefit for their non-football sports again?

This helps make my point. From '47-'91 they made the tournament 7 times. From '92-'12 they've made the tournament 7 times. Huge difference.

Baseball is a sport not effected by the ACC. The ACC was already a tremendous baseball conference.

I know that FSU had great football before the ACC. I even said that FSU's football helped elevate the ACC. It's a symbiotic relationship, though. Neither the ACC or FSU is where they are today without each other. You can't just take into account football, basketball, or even baseball. You have to take into account the athletic department as a whole, cash flow, and academic association.

I don't know about Notre Dame and Texas, but Florida State has improved dramatically over the last several years by following the ACC formula.
This year based on their director's cup finish one could argue that FSU passed UVa as the third best athletic program in the ACC, behind only Carolina and Dook.

(01-25-2013 08:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  I don't know about Notre Dame and Texas, but Florida State has improved dramatically over the last several years by following the ACC formula.
This year based on their director's cup finish one could argue that FSU passed UVa as the third best athletic program in the ACC, behind only Carolina and Dook.

I think it's debatable as to which school has the best athletic program. I don't think there's any debate that FSU, UNC, UVA and Duke are the cream of the crop of the ACC. Everyone else need not apply.

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  This is definitely smack board material.

If you say so. There is nothing smack about it.

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I never said that FSU has weak non-revenue sports. I said that compared to Notre Dame and Texas they do. You offered a nice rebuttal there, so I can't really say much.

So then literally 50% of your argument in the other thread is immediately thrown out the window.

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  I never said FSU has a "small fan base". I said that Texas has a larger fan base than FSU.

You're really getting into semantics with this stuff.

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  You're wrong. The ACC - FSU relationship is definitely symbiotic. The ACC elevated Florida State's national profile, in turn Florida State elevated the ACC's

Without the ACC are FSU's non-football sports competing at a high level? Probably not. In association with the ACC, FSU drastically increased their academic profile. That doesn't happen without the ACC.

Without FSU does the ACC become power in football? Probably not. In association with FSU, the ACC drastically increased its football profile. That doesn't happen without FSU.

You are talking about FSU and the ACC having a symbiotic relationship. Sure. Both parties, benefit each other. However, some of the parties that make up the ACC are parasites when it comes to FSU. FSU provides them much more than they provide FSU.

You can argue this all you want. It won't change my opinion and I'd imagine the majority of America would agree, given FSU's tv ratings, football prowess the last 3 decades, overall athletics program and media markets within the state, that FSU deserves better.[/quote]

(01-24-2013 11:38 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Edit: That's why people get annoyed when FSU fans complain about the ACC. Without the ACC, FSU isn't in the position they're in now.

Nonsense.

Most of you get annoyed with FSU because we find the ACC, in large part, beneath us while the rest of the ACC-happy bunch think of the ACC as its savior for saving you from the sinking Big East.

FSU made the ACC a BCS conference. The ACC would be an even bigger laughing stock (national perception, not my opnion) if FSU hadn't have joined.

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. Heck, literally half of the fans on this board have never even experienced one game as an ACC member. Imo, you can't really speak with any authority whatsoever on the conference or its members because of such. But hey...

(01-25-2013 07:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:11 AM)XLance Wrote:  This year based on their director's cup finish one could argue that FSU passed UVa as the third best athletic program in the ACC, behind only Carolina and Dook.

I think it's debatable as to which school has the best athletic program. I don't think there's any debate that FSU, UNC, UVA and Duke are the cream of the crop of the ACC. Everyone else need not apply.

Those are certainly the top 4. If you want to include Notre Dame they are right there with those 4 or very close behind them. Then with Maryland leaving and the new additions, Louisville would have been 6th in the league the last two seasons if you slot them in, behind the 4 you mentioned and ND.

Yes, UL is very good, top 25 potential although I don't believe you've been top 25 each of the last 7+ years. Just from memory. Could be wrong. ND would be #5, based on memory. UMD was very good, too, but they are now gone.

I think if FSU were to add any of men's soccer, men's lacrosse or women's lacrosse we'd likely establish ourselves as the clear #1 in the ACC. Jmo but I think there's reason to believe it to be true.

Cuse has made great strides the last 5 years under the new AD. We are looking at big points for Hoops (M/W) and, Softball and Lax (M/W). Currently Cuse is 15th overall.

(01-25-2013 07:51 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Yes, UL is very good, top 25 potential although I don't believe you've been top 25 each of the last 7+ years. Just from memory. Could be wrong. ND would be #5, based on memory. UMD was very good, too, but they are now gone.

I believe UofL can say they are the only school over the last six seasons to to win a BCS game along with making an appearance in the men's Final Four, women's Final Four, College World Series, and soccer's College Cup. The Cards haven't broken through with a team title though and I believe have been in the #25-35 range on the Sears Cup recently. FSU/UNC/Duke/UVA have top 10 finishes consistently.

As Mark mentioned Syracuse has greatly improved recently as well, stepping up finishes while in the Big East.

UL and Cuse may be doing well but I do not believe their full athletic department is on the level of the top 4 I mentioned. Maybe in a few years. Maybe not.

(01-25-2013 10:41 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 07:51 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Yes, UL is very good, top 25 potential although I don't believe you've been top 25 each of the last 7+ years. Just from memory. Could be wrong. ND would be #5, based on memory. UMD was very good, too, but they are now gone.

I believe UofL can say they are the only school over the last six seasons to to win a BCS game along with making an appearance in the men's Final Four, women's Final Four, College World Series, and soccer's College Cup. The Cards haven't broken through with a team title though and I believe have been in the #25-35 range on the Sears Cup recently. FSU/UNC/Duke/UVA have top 10 finishes consistently.

As Mark mentioned Syracuse has greatly improved recently as well, stepping up finishes while in the Big East.

I think that is pretty damned impressive. I know that Louisville total sports program has been very good throughout the time that it was a member of the Big East.

I would expect to see Louisville's athletic program soar even higher with their ACC association, just as Florida State did.

Just for the record:
ACC team championships 1998-2007 (a random sample/it is the only time period for which I have complete records)

Team championships won:
Carolina 54
Dook 45
UVa 36
Florida State 28
Clemson 20
Maryland 19
NC State 19
Georgia Tech 15
Wake Forest 7
Virginia Tech 5
Miami 4
Boston College 0

note: Virginia Tech and Miami did not join the ACC until 2004-05
Boston College did not join the ACC until 2005-06.