(02-09-2013 10:46 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 10:17 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 09:06 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I think it's a benchmark of where the program could be if it weren't sunk by our AD.

hen taht

Three questions:

1. Do you blame Greenspan for all of the transfers or just Kazemi and Oraby?

2. Did they leave because of Greenspan directly, or indirectly in the sense that his remarks facilitated the waivers?

3. Do you think that Greenspan privately is happy that the Arab and the Persian are off the team?

I have no reason to blame Greenspan for those.

I can't answer the second question (I suspect the latte, though, even if I wouldn't say that is indirectly) and have no reason to care about the third. I hope he cares that things are currently a disaster, even if it is of his own making. If he doesn't then that is a far worse situation.

Sorry to be a pest, but I think your answers are vague. If you are going to assert that our current state in MBB is attributable to the AD, I think you should offer a coherent case as to why.

The program still is not much worse than Braun found it. So full cycle, Braun hasn't sunk the program, though he clearly hasn't improved it enough to merit having 4 years left on his contract or whatever he has.

Compared to last year, the program clearly has sunk. Is that the fault of the AD, the head coach, or a voodoo practitioner in a cave somewhere?

Who needs to be sent packing?

(02-09-2013 09:52 AM)Houston Owl Wrote:  First, I would not go so far as to think that Arsalan is not coming back. I wouldn't be surprised at all if graduates with a Rice degree.

Second, you probably have no idea what he went through last year (and I know nothing about any alleged internal issues).

The taunts that he and Omar endured at road games were simply embarassing but he never reacted. (I personally heard some of the taunts and I spoke with Arsalan after two road games). I'm surprised that the administration at the other schools would allow that sort of conduct at their basketball games. The taunting was very vicious and very, very personal.

He's not without his own issues, and I can't begin to imagine the personal issues he has had to endure. I respect him greatly and I hope he does graduate from Rice.

Why would this be a reason to leave Rice? You don't think they are going to get taunted by thousands more at Oregon and USC? And if you leave somewhere because your feelings get hurt, well, good luck in life, my middle eastern friend. Be serious......

(02-10-2013 08:39 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 10:46 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 10:17 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 09:06 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I think it's a benchmark of where the program could be if it weren't sunk by our AD.

hen taht

Three questions:

1. Do you blame Greenspan for all of the transfers or just Kazemi and Oraby?

2. Did they leave because of Greenspan directly, or indirectly in the sense that his remarks facilitated the waivers?

3. Do you think that Greenspan privately is happy that the Arab and the Persian are off the team?

I have no reason to blame Greenspan for those.

I can't answer the second question (I suspect the latte, though, even if I wouldn't say that is indirectly) and have no reason to care about the third. I hope he cares that things are currently a disaster, even if it is of his own making. If he doesn't then that is a far worse situation.

Sorry to be a pest, but I think your answers are vague. If you are going to assert that our current state in MBB is attributable to the AD, I think you should offer a coherent case as to why.

The program still is not much worse than Braun found it. So full cycle, Braun hasn't sunk the program, though he clearly hasn't improved it enough to merit having 4 years left on his contract or whatever he has.

Compared to last year, the program clearly has sunk. Is that the fault of the AD, the head coach, or a voodoo practitioner in a cave somewhere?

Who needs to be sent packing?

IMHO, even if Omar and Arselan stayed at Rice, what is tantamount to racial abuse should be grounds for dismissal, just on moral grounds. I think it's especially unacceptable at the AD level. Moral issues aside, it also exposes the university to a potential lawsuit, and it has played a part in sinking the basketball program, whether it's a primary cause or just played a minor part. First and foremost, it would focus on the fact of whether or not he said what was alleged, not on the subsequent effects that it had.

If the AD in fact said those things, he needs to go, for many reasons, on many levels, without regard to what impact they may or may not have had.

Did he in fact say them? I don't know. Do you?

There's a rumor. Is it true? Well, it's true that there's a rumor.

(02-11-2013 09:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  IMHO, even if Omar and Arselan stayed at Rice, what is tantamount to racial abuse should be grounds for dismissal, just on moral grounds. I think it's especially unacceptable at the AD level. Moral issues aside, it also exposes the university to a potential lawsuit, and it has played a part in sinking the basketball program, whether it's a primary cause or just played a minor part. First and foremost, it would focus on the fact of whether or not he said what was alleged, not on the subsequent effects that it had.

If you have some basis to allege or believe with some level of substantiation that Rick Greenspan is guilty of racial abuse, then I would suggest you turn that over to David Leebron or Bobby Tudor to deal with. Otherwise, I think speculation such as this is inappropriate on this board.

The rumor has been out there for a while. Probably don't need to keep rehashing it though since we aren't going to get anywhere doing so.

(02-11-2013 10:02 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  The rumor has been out there for a while. Probably don't need to keep rehashing it though since we aren't going to get anywhere doing so.

Agreed.

As much as I want to know what REALLY happened, trying to discuss this situation with only a rumor to go on has become absurd.

I don't think anyone on this board disagrees that, if this rumor is true, good old Greeny should be canned ASAP, and that the leaders of Rice are competent enough to do so.

I haven't been following this. Did any info ever come out as to why the NCAA granted the hardship waivers? If nothing has come out yet, do we think anything ever will?

A CBS Sports article a few months back said that the players claimed racial discrimination. Rice released a statement strongly denying the charges, calling them unfounded and also made some intimations of Coach Morcos involvement in the players leaving.

(02-11-2013 10:35 AM)d1owls4life Wrote:  A CBS Sports article a few months back said that the players claimed racial discrimination. Rice released a statement strongly denying the charges, calling them unfounded and also made some intimations of Coach Morcos involvement in the players leaving.

Not quite. The first version of the article mentioned "poor treatment" and "racial allegations" but did not use the word discrimination.

A subsequent version of the article added Rice's denial of discrimination.

The final version of the article removed the accusation but left Rice's response. The only thing that's left that isn't part of Rice's story is that the allegations are against Greenspan (Rice's story is unsurprisingly vague about that).

So I saw three revisions and in all three:
1. No source other than Rice mentioned discrimination
2. Rice denied nothing but discrimination

I don't know exactly what happened. Maybe I never will. But the whole thing stinks.

(02-11-2013 09:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  First and foremost, it would focus on the fact of whether or not he said what was alleged, not on the subsequent effects that it had.

Right. I agree. Leebron should get to truth of what was said, and if it is a firing offense, he should be fired, even if both football and MBB were in the Top 25

But nothing from the NCAA on why they granted the hardship waivers? I remember in the early going, some folks on here thought that the NCAA would have to explain the waiver if they granted it.

(02-11-2013 02:37 PM)JOwl Wrote:  But nothing from the NCAA on why they granted the hardship waivers? I remember in the early going, some folks on here thought that the NCAA would have to explain the waiver if they granted it.

Some folks on here don't know what they're talking about.

(02-11-2013 09:58 AM)RiceDad Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 09:46 AM)I45owl Wrote:  IMHO, even if Omar and Arselan stayed at Rice, what is tantamount to racial abuse should be grounds for dismissal, just on moral grounds. I think it's especially unacceptable at the AD level. Moral issues aside, it also exposes the university to a potential lawsuit, and it has played a part in sinking the basketball program, whether it's a primary cause or just played a minor part. First and foremost, it would focus on the fact of whether or not he said what was alleged, not on the subsequent effects that it had.

If you have some basis to allege or believe with some level of substantiation that Rick Greenspan is guilty of racial abuse, then I would suggest you turn that over to David Leebron or Bobby Tudor to deal with. Otherwise, I think speculation such as this is inappropriate on this board.

I think posting those rumors was inappropriate, but I'm not the one that did so. I don't think saying that "if xyz is true, then he should be terminated" is inappropriate. I've generally presented it or tried to present it in that conditional form, but what I did above did stray a bit from that.

I will say definitively that I cannot substantiate them in any way.

(02-11-2013 06:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I think posting those rumors was inappropriate, but I'm not the one that did so. I don't think saying that "if xyz is true, then he should be terminated" is inappropriate. I've generally presented it or tried to present it in that conditional form, but what I did above did stray a bit from that.

I will say definitively that I cannot substantiate them in any way.

Do you want to amend or retract your statement that RG has sunk our basketball program?

(02-11-2013 09:48 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 06:33 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I think posting those rumors was inappropriate, but I'm not the one that did so. I don't think saying that "if xyz is true, then he should be terminated" is inappropriate. I've generally presented it or tried to present it in that conditional form, but what I did above did stray a bit from that.

I will say definitively that I cannot substantiate them in any way.

Do you want to amend or retract your statement that RG has sunk our basketball program?

How is "ällegedly sunk"? I'll grant that I didn't live up to the standards I laid out, and it's probably a mistake to have said that. At this point, I'm wondering what the hell you just did to me...

The situation is just profoundly frustrating, including the likelihood that all parties are getting legal advice not to say much of anything, leaving the rumors twisting in the wind like a tourniquet around the program.

(02-10-2013 12:23 AM)smackdaddy Wrote:  Wow. AK filled up the box score tonight for the #19 Ducks over Utah; no one else even came close on cross-the-board stats: 11 points, 14 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks, 0 assists, and 1 fuming former AD. Nobody else on either team even had a perturbed or mildly-annoyed former AD. Easily a 1st round pick for any NBA team looking to infuriate its old GM.

Quote:Utah dominated with points off of Oregon turnovers but after what Damyean Dotson called an inspirational speech by senior forward Arsalan Kazemi in the locker room, the Ducks came out in the 2nd half and
demanded control.

Kazemi had some halftime words for his teammates.

"This is our team, we can't let the coaches get mad at us, we can't let the coaches talk, we have to step up as leaders. You can't just talk, just have to do it."

Kazemi has started to find a leadership role for the team and Saturday night against Utah, he knew he had to lead.

"It was the right time, said Kazemi. "We were down and we needed someone to stand up and talk. The coaches can't care about the game more than we do."

http://oregon.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1470820

(02-12-2013 05:50 PM)talon owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2013 12:23 AM)smackdaddy Wrote:  Wow. AK filled up the box score tonight for the #19 Ducks over Utah; no one else even came close on cross-the-board stats: 11 points, 14 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks, 0 assists, and 1 fuming former AD. Nobody else on either team even had a perturbed or mildly-annoyed former AD. Easily a 1st round pick for any NBA team looking to infuriate its old GM.

Quote:Utah dominated with points off of Oregon turnovers but after what Damyean Dotson called an inspirational speech by senior forward Arsalan Kazemi in the locker room, the Ducks came out in the 2nd half and
demanded control.

Kazemi had some halftime words for his teammates.

"This is our team, we can't let the coaches get mad at us, we can't let the coaches talk, we have to step up as leaders. You can't just talk, just have to do it."

Kazemi has started to find a leadership role for the team and Saturday night against Utah, he knew he had to lead.

"It was the right time, said Kazemi. "We were down and we needed someone to stand up and talk. The coaches can't care about the game more than we do."

http://oregon.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1470820

This is why we all loved Arsalan so much.

The guy plays with some great intensity and heart.

I just wish I knew the real reason why he left, so I could finally decide whether or not I should continue to root for him or curse him endlessly.

Let me put it this way - I have a partial theory about the timing of why they left, and it doesn't apply to anything thrown out so far. The rumors were only the means (if accurate) for getting the NCAA waiver. It wasn't like those supposed reasons didn't exist before the summer.

Now, I certainly cannot dispell possible visa implications/concerns - that could be part of it. But I don't feel like posting my theory in public, because there are lots of negative implications for it. Best to sit on it.

To me, the more interesting question is this: how did high profile programs (USC and Oregon) in a top conference just "happen" to have scholarships available -- in SEPTEMBER? Is it possible that each school knew, well in advance, what was going to happen?