A lot of these last remaining moves being discussed may make sense for the conferences, but they don't really make sense for the individual schools. It might make sense for the B1G if GT volunteered to be their version of WVU, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for GT. That's basically the same logic that kept Texas out of the PAC.

(02-25-2013 04:40 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  For fun...

B1G - add 6 to get to 20...
Kansas, Mizzu, UVA, UNC, Duke & GT

SEC - reload 1 to stay at 14
NC St

ACC - reload 3 to get to 12
Cincinnati, ECU & UCONN

BE - reload 4 to get to 12FB
Army, UMASS, Marshall & Buffalo

MAC - reload 1 to get to 12
WKY

Sun Belt - reload 1 to get to 8
Appy St

Don't believe it happens but if it did...I have to think the SEC would grab VT and FSU (yes, against the gentleman's agreement) for 16 and possibly Clemson plus one more if they wanted 18. The ACC would be pulling in almost all of the new Big East. Who does the Big XII replace Kansas with?

(02-25-2013 05:20 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 04:40 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  For fun...

B1G - add 6 to get to 20...
Kansas, Mizzu, UVA, UNC, Duke & GT

SEC - reload 1 to stay at 14
NC St

ACC - reload 3 to get to 12
Cincinnati, ECU & UCONN

BE - reload 4 to get to 12FB
Army, UMASS, Marshall & Buffalo

MAC - reload 1 to get to 12
WKY

Sun Belt - reload 1 to get to 8
Appy St

Don't believe it happens but if it did...I have to think the SEC would grab VT and FSU (yes, against the gentleman's agreement) for 16 and possibly Clemson plus one more if they wanted 18. The ACC would be pulling in almost all of the new Big East. Who does the Big XII replace Kansas with?

Damn...I thought I tied all my loose ends.

...Does the B12 TV contract require a minimum of 10 teams? If I were the B12 I would just sit tight at 9 until I could get FSU & Clemson then even it out after that.

I think that the SEC will see that more than 14 is not healthy for the conference...unless the additions are top tier schools.

My first impression is if the B10 wishes to expand, considerations should include populations that are growing and western time zones. So Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, and Kansas makes sense.

I can't see the Pac-12 expanding without Texas. And the safest way to kill the Big 12 GOR is to offer new homes to eight of the ten members, who would then presumably dissolve the conference. Assuming the left-behinds are Baylor and Iowa State, this could be the play:

-- Pac-12 goes to 16 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

-- Big 10 goes to 18 with Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Virginia

-- SEC goes to 18 with TCU, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State and Florida State

-- ACC backfills to 14 with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and either ECU or UCF

-- Notre Dame stubbornly stays indy

However I still think the ACC breakup scenario is more likely than the Big 12 breakup scenario, simply because Texas is set on being the biggest fish in its own pond.

(02-25-2013 05:55 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I can't see the Pac-12 expanding without Texas. And the safest way to kill the Big 12 GOR is to offer new homes to eight of the ten members, who would then presumably dissolve the conference. Assuming the left-behinds are Baylor and Iowa State, this could be the play:

-- Pac-12 goes to 16 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

-- Big 10 goes to 18 with Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Virginia

-- SEC goes to 18 with TCU, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State and Florida State

-- ACC backfills to 14 with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and either ECU or UCF

-- Notre Dame stubbornly stays indy

However I still think the ACC breakup scenario is more likely than the Big 12 breakup scenario, simply because Texas is set on being the biggest fish in its own pond.

No way MEMPHIS is skipped over for ACC membership. That is a basketball league and will have lost MAJOR basketball schools in any scenario. they will need MEMPHIS. Plus, major backing in football at MEMPHIS now too.

The branding order is as follows for ACC:

Cinci
Uconn
Memphis
Temple

I'm not saying there is trouble in the Big 12. But if they broke up it would be the only scenario in which 16 might work 4 ways.

Texas Tech, Kansas State, Oklahoma & Oklahoma State or Iowa State to the PAC.

PAC's at 16.

Kansas and either Iowa State or Connecticut to the Big 10.

Big 10's at 16.

Texas and either Baylor or T.C.U. to the ACC.

ACC's at 16 plus N.D.

West Virginia and the remainder of Baylor/T.C.U., or Oklahoma State or Cincinnati to the SEC.

SEC's at 16.

Far easier to dissolved a 10 school regional Midwest conference than a spread out Eastern/Southern like minded all sports conference no matter what anyone of Us thinks.

(02-25-2013 05:55 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I can't see the Pac-12 expanding without Texas. And the safest way to kill the Big 12 GOR is to offer new homes to eight of the ten members, who would then presumably dissolve the conference. Assuming the left-behinds are Baylor and Iowa State, this could be the play:

-- Pac-12 goes to 16 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

-- Big 10 goes to 18 with Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Virginia

-- SEC goes to 18 with TCU, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State and Florida State

-- ACC backfills to 14 with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and either ECU or UCF

-- Notre Dame stubbornly stays indy

However I still think the ACC breakup scenario is more likely than the Big 12 breakup scenario, simply because Texas is set on being the biggest fish in its own pond.

Agreed. The math doesn't support Pac-12 expansion unless the Horns are included. A group including UT could work even if the total number of teams in the league was more than 16, but there is no combination without UT that would make more money per-school for the Pac than the amount they make now.

But, probably not going to happen at all in the near term because of the second passage that I bolded.

(02-25-2013 01:18 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 01:02 PM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  A reliable source stating that he has been told that the B1G is going to 16-20 from B1G sources.


Kansas Board.

Podcast. Discussion starts at 20:30.

2 different sources said "Not surprised if Big 10 expands to 18-20, but 16 for sure."

One source in the know said "Kansas is on the radar. Might depend if Kansas Legislature has tied Kansas St to Kansas."

Two different sources say "Missouri is on the Big 10 radar down the road."

Also heard "Big 10 would love to add Texas."

Rationale: The Big 10 Network is printing money. Big 10 owns 49%. Looking for other states to penetrate.

Source: "Big 10 has probably gone as far East as they want to go. Now they want to reach into the South and maybe West" (i.e. Kansas, Missouri, etc.)

Please remove Mizzou from the radar.

I am very dubious about the idea of UVA, with a very financially healthy athletic program, leaving the ACC without its rivals joining it. It's one thing to go B1G w/ UNC, Duke, GT, etc. It's another to leave them all behind and jump with Maryland to the B1G without any financial push to force us to move.

(02-25-2013 08:52 PM)BamaWahoo Wrote:  I am very dubious about the idea of UVA, with a very financially healthy athletic program, leaving the ACC without its rivals joining it. It's one thing to go B1G w/ UNC, Duke, GT, etc. It's another to leave them all behind and jump with Maryland to the B1G without any financial push to force us to move.

How receptive would they be if a Mr. SEC hypothesis were to be played out. Let's say Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, N.C. State, and Pittsburgh/F.S.U. were all offered the SEC as a group. How likely (if there was going to be a move) would it be that such an offer would be accepted? If that move was made the SEC would be at 20 with 8 AAU members.

(02-25-2013 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 08:52 PM)BamaWahoo Wrote:  I am very dubious about the idea of UVA, with a very financially healthy athletic program, leaving the ACC without its rivals joining it. It's one thing to go B1G w/ UNC, Duke, GT, etc. It's another to leave them all behind and jump with Maryland to the B1G without any financial push to force us to move.

How receptive would they be if a Mr. SEC hypothesis were to be played out. Let's say Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, N.C. State, and Pittsburgh/F.S.U. were all offered the SEC as a group. How likely (if there was going to be a move) would it be that such an offer would be accepted? If that move was made the SEC would be at 20 with 8 AAU members.

The majority of the fanbase would be enthusiastically for it. The Administration would be enthusiastically for it if it were obvious that some of those teams were going to leave anyway. As much as I hate Duke & UNC, it's hard to imagine us not in the same conference with them.

As a Bama fan too, I'd be thrilled. Bama playing in VA and NC just about every year? Yes, please.

(02-25-2013 01:18 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 01:02 PM)OldGoldnBlue Wrote:  A reliable source stating that he has been told that the B1G is going to 16-20 from B1G sources.


Kansas Board.

Podcast. Discussion starts at 20:30.

2 different sources said "Not surprised if Big 10 expands to 18-20, but 16 for sure."

One source in the know said "Kansas is on the radar. Might depend if Kansas Legislature has tied Kansas St to Kansas."

Two different sources say "Missouri is on the Big 10 radar down the road."

Also heard "Big 10 would love to add Texas."

Rationale: The Big 10 Network is printing money. Big 10 owns 49%. Looking for other states to penetrate.

Source: "Big 10 has probably gone as far East as they want to go. Now they want to reach into the South and maybe West" (i.e. Kansas, Missouri, etc.)

RAPE...RAPE

(02-25-2013 06:08 PM)GrandmasterTiger Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 05:55 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I can't see the Pac-12 expanding without Texas. And the safest way to kill the Big 12 GOR is to offer new homes to eight of the ten members, who would then presumably dissolve the conference. Assuming the left-behinds are Baylor and Iowa State, this could be the play:

-- Pac-12 goes to 16 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

-- Big 10 goes to 18 with Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Virginia

-- SEC goes to 18 with TCU, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, NC State and Florida State

-- ACC backfills to 14 with UConn, Cincinnati, USF, and either ECU or UCF

-- Notre Dame stubbornly stays indy

However I still think the ACC breakup scenario is more likely than the Big 12 breakup scenario, simply because Texas is set on being the biggest fish in its own pond.

No way MEMPHIS is skipped over for ACC membership. That is a basketball league and will have lost MAJOR basketball schools in any scenario. they will need MEMPHIS. Plus, major backing in football at MEMPHIS now too.

The branding order is as follows for ACC:

Cinci
Uconn
Memphis
Temple

No way does Memphis ever even sniff the ACC.

(02-25-2013 09:11 PM)BamaWahoo Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 08:52 PM)BamaWahoo Wrote:  I am very dubious about the idea of UVA, with a very financially healthy athletic program, leaving the ACC without its rivals joining it. It's one thing to go B1G w/ UNC, Duke, GT, etc. It's another to leave them all behind and jump with Maryland to the B1G without any financial push to force us to move.

How receptive would they be if a Mr. SEC hypothesis were to be played out. Let's say Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, N.C. State, and Pittsburgh/F.S.U. were all offered the SEC as a group. How likely (if there was going to be a move) would it be that such an offer would be accepted? If that move was made the SEC would be at 20 with 8 AAU members.

The majority of the fanbase would be enthusiastically for it. The Administration would be enthusiastically for it if it were obvious that some of those teams were going to leave anyway. As much as I hate Duke & UNC, it's hard to imagine us not in the same conference with them.

As a Bama fan too, I'd be thrilled. Bama playing in VA and NC just about every year? Yes, please.

Other than have the ACC stay together, I can't imagine a better way to put an end to all of this nonsense than to execute a move like that one. It would leave F.S.U., Clemson, Georgia Tech and Miami free to move to the Big 12 with Louisville and another. The partnership between the two conferences would essentially end realignment as we know it.

(02-25-2013 01:38 PM)Maize Wrote:  "If" the B1G plucks a Missouri/Kansas my guess is the SEC will try once again for Texas-(once the Longhorns say no again to the ACC/B1G & Pac 12) they would set their sights for the Eers...they would be the most willing to jump through the hoops and it gives the SEC even more into both the Pittsburgh/DC markets.

You guys are way too funny... Like the old saying goes... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Old old news. This Missouri to the B1G is a joke. There is such a thing as pride... The B1G had the bride at the alter and left her for a Cornhusker. Also, the Aggies will leave the SEC if UT is invited. Count on it. I think my Aggie friends will back me on this.

(02-26-2013 01:53 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 01:38 PM)Maize Wrote:  "If" the B1G plucks a Missouri/Kansas my guess is the SEC will try once again for Texas-(once the Longhorns say no again to the ACC/B1G & Pac 12) they would set their sights for the Eers...they would be the most willing to jump through the hoops and it gives the SEC even more into both the Pittsburgh/DC markets.

You guys are way too funny... Like the old saying goes... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Old old news. This Missouri to the B1G is a joke. There is such a thing as pride... The B1G had the bride at the alter and left her for a Cornhusker. Also, the Aggies will leave the SEC if UT is invited. Count on it. I think my Aggie friends will back me on this.

I hope you are joking but I'll play along. Where would A&M go? Back to the Big 12? Nope. The ACC? Nope. Big 10? Nope. PAC 12? Nope, they already said they didn't want anything to do with the PAC.

Kansas I would scratch my head at, Texas and Oklahoma would be obvious and take the heart right out of the Big 12. Same for UNC and Duke in the ACC. BIG wants the best while it's reputation and status is at the top of all leagues. It also wants to improve it's network and the bigger the better. I believe that BIG wants to go to 16-20.

This would open many, many doors for Cincinnati. Possibly UC could decide which league it wanted.

(02-25-2013 08:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 08:52 PM)BamaWahoo Wrote:  I am very dubious about the idea of UVA, with a very financially healthy athletic program, leaving the ACC without its rivals joining it. It's one thing to go B1G w/ UNC, Duke, GT, etc. It's another to leave them all behind and jump with Maryland to the B1G without any financial push to force us to move.

How receptive would they be if a Mr. SEC hypothesis were to be played out. Let's say Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, N.C. State, and Pittsburgh/F.S.U. were all offered the SEC as a group. How likely (if there was going to be a move) would it be that such an offer would be accepted? If that move was made the SEC would be at 20 with 8 AAU members.

I am confounded by your inability to understand that the SEC needs the Big Ten to expand as well in order to get rules passed that will take full advantage of any new expansion.

If the only mentality you can think in is one of aggressive competition rather than cooperation then perhaps you should just go join the Army and shoot people or something.

The SEC is not going to block the Big Ten. Eventually you will see that.