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Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:08 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the C7 leave in July I doubt they would have a claim on the entry fees. If they leave in 2014, then they clearly would have a claim on those entry fees, but not the ECU and Tulane entry fees.

The email from the Aresco's lawyer to the C7 said that the entry fees were going into the Realignment Fund, which is a joint property. It's bizarre, and there's no moral justification for it, but that's the situation before a deal is struck.

They would go into the realighnment fund. However, the balance of that fund changes based upon the date. For example, there is no 2.5 million coming from SDSU anymore. Also, ECU and Tulane have not withdrawn from CUSA--so those funds are not a certanty. Im assuming, division of assets would be as of a set split date. If that date moves from 07/2014 to 07/2013--the expected balance in the account changes. Could I be wrong, lol, sure---but I think this makes sense.

Since the money is coming in over time, and since the total amount was uncertain, the Arescoid lawyer asked the C-7 what percentage they were seeking. Again, part of the reason I think the deal comes down to NAme-for-Realignment Reserve Fund. Once the RRF is 100% Aresco LEague property, you can waive entry fees and distribute the RRF however you guys want. Until then, our noses are in your business, which doesn't help anybody.

I hate to say it, but because of how this split is allegedly drawn up in the MCA, it's more like a divorce than a typical withdrawal. In a divorce, the assets are divided and any future income is considered as mutual property. That's how many people are able to increase alimony/palimony if the other party gets a new job/promotion/raise/etc. in a divorce case.
02-28-2013 12:52 PM
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gocards#1 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:49 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In football, ECU did everything it could. Saying a classless statement like "squandering every opportunity they had" sounds like they had control of the outcomes and did not actually do the best they could. That would be a bold faced lie if someone actually said that was the truth. I'm positive ECU could have done more on the basketball side in the 90s but it would have come at the cost of the football side. We weren't oozing with money. Neither was Louisville but you were better off financially, in a much larger market and had the benefit of moving up added to the punch. ECU's basketball has come a long ways in just three years. The strides are being made there.

Has UCF has done all they could. Outside of building a tin can for their football stadium, they've done exactly what they should have...everything...basketball included. And as for the stadium, I think that's all they could really afford...so it was the right move.

Houston and SMU are making the strides off the field now. Houston did it on the field in football for quite some time now.

Memphis has done all they could in basketball. Football is another story but it didn't keep them from getting invited.

Long story short...your comment is unwarranted and ignorant of the truth. Look what happened to Cincy (who was arguably worse than any of the new teams) when they were added to the Big East in 2004. Look at the dramatic change in football. You can not deny the help that BCS AQ inclusion has done for your program. Nor can you claim that because you've done so well that it proves everyone else with Non-AQ status squandered their opportunities away. Just a classless thing to say.

For God's sake we played our home football games in a minor league baseball stadium until 1998. We almost dropped down to division II in the 80's. Now look where we are. My point is that we decided to make a commitment to improve our program from the ground up and it worked. All these excuses of "not having a market" and "not having enough money" are irrelevant. We considerably worse off than you guys but we didn't let that stop us. So my claim about how you guys squandered your opportunities is the cold hard truth. If we could find a way to do it there's no reason anybody else can't.
02-28-2013 01:02 PM
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apex_pirate Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 01:02 PM)gocards#1 Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:49 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In football, ECU did everything it could. Saying a classless statement like "squandering every opportunity they had" sounds like they had control of the outcomes and did not actually do the best they could. That would be a bold faced lie if someone actually said that was the truth. I'm positive ECU could have done more on the basketball side in the 90s but it would have come at the cost of the football side. We weren't oozing with money. Neither was Louisville but you were better off financially, in a much larger market and had the benefit of moving up added to the punch. ECU's basketball has come a long ways in just three years. The strides are being made there.

Has UCF has done all they could. Outside of building a tin can for their football stadium, they've done exactly what they should have...everything...basketball included. And as for the stadium, I think that's all they could really afford...so it was the right move.

Houston and SMU are making the strides off the field now. Houston did it on the field in football for quite some time now.

Memphis has done all they could in basketball. Football is another story but it didn't keep them from getting invited.

Long story short...your comment is unwarranted and ignorant of the truth. Look what happened to Cincy (who was arguably worse than any of the new teams) when they were added to the Big East in 2004. Look at the dramatic change in football. You can not deny the help that BCS AQ inclusion has done for your program. Nor can you claim that because you've done so well that it proves everyone else with Non-AQ status squandered their opportunities away. Just a classless thing to say.

For God's sake we played our home football games in a minor league baseball stadium until 1998. We almost dropped down to division II in the 80's. Now look where we are. My point is that we decided to make a commitment to improve our program from the ground up and it worked. All these excuses of "not having a market" and "not having enough money" are irrelevant. We considerably worse off than you guys but we didn't let that stop us. So my claim about how you guys squandered your opportunities is the cold hard truth. If we could find a way to do it there's no reason anybody else can't.

I didn't list one excuse as to why we didn't rise up. The market was why you did rise up, and your basketball and the fact there is only UK competing with you in Kentucky. There are a lot of reasons Louisville was chosen over others. Saying we squadered opportunities is bull feathers and you know it. ECU invested far more than Cincy did and did far better in football...and when football (which was driving the bus) came calling, it was ECU that was left behind. Your argument is full of sh*t and you know it. You can't really point to squandered opportunities without first looking at those who WERE chosen and had done less.

I think it's great Louisville made it out of the hole but that crap you spew is unbelievable.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2013 03:02 PM by apex_pirate.)
02-28-2013 03:00 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:59 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:54 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:47 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 10:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There is a risk that UConn, USF, Cincinnati and maybe Temple will sell the Big East name to the C7 in exchange for all claim to the exit fee money, and then divide up the exit fee money amongst themselves. According to the emails sent by the Aresco League lawyer last December, there will be about $18.8M in the Realignment Reserve Fund by June 2013. Call it $21M when you include Boise's cancellation fee of $2.5M.

So they could sell the name to the C7 for the Realignment Fund, and then distribute the money amongst themselves, $7M each.

Sounds ok to me. UC, UConn, and USF have been screwed over the most in this realignment age so they should profit the most from exit fees.

It might sound OK to you, but how do you think it sounds to Memphis/Houston/UCF etc? They're paying $2.5M in entry fees, they pay $500,000 in CUSA exit fees, and you're handing over conference property for money that they're not getting a piece of.

That's when legal counsel starts talking about "nuclear options." Maybe the incoming schools can't get an injunction against the Big East settling anything with the C-7 until the new members come in. But you can try. And you can try it in a Texas court, a Florida court, a Tennessee court, and maybe a Pennsylvania court at the same time.

Realistically, a three-way deal will get done.

I say reduce the entrance fees. I suppose something must be paid to cover legal fees - but that's about it.

The league the new schools are coming into is not exactly what they expected. But the bulk of the exit fee money should go to the schools that got screwed the most - UC, UConn, and USF.

A post on the UC board pointed out what UC (as an example) has endured the last couple of years)

1) Lost AQ Status
2) Had 5 all-sports conference members bail on us, including rivals Louisville and Pitt
3) Lost the basketball schools
4) Got a television contract that will actually pay a lot less than what we previously earned
5) All indications are the new b-ball conference will pay their members $1-2M more per team.
6) Said conference will add none other than our cross town rivals who don't play fball and have a fraction of the fan interest that we do.
7) Now it looks like we will no longer be in a conference called the Big East and will play in Conference American (or whatever they want to call it).

Yep and keep this in mind: Nobody won more games in the Big East from 2005-2012 than UC. UC has won 4 out of the last 5 BE titles. UC has won 10 games 5 out of the last 6 seasons. Say what you want about the competition, but there are only a hand full of teams with a similar track record in the FBS dividsion.
02-28-2013 04:21 PM
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AndreWhere Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-27-2013 11:59 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big East name has no Bih East Value. America will never consider:

Memphis
East Carolina
Central Florida
Tulane
Houston
SMU

as the Big East even with UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida in it. So UConn, Temple, Cincinnati and South Florida will bag some quick bread. However, America will still consider the C7 as Big East Basketball.

Unlike you, I can't speak for "America," but I consider you full of crap. Enjoy your 1990 national championship.
02-28-2013 04:43 PM
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eaglerock Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:08 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If the C7 leave in July I doubt they would have a claim on the entry fees. If they leave in 2014, then they clearly would have a claim on those entry fees, but not the ECU and Tulane entry fees.

The email from the Aresco's lawyer to the C7 said that the entry fees were going into the Realignment Fund, which is a joint property. It's bizarre, and there's no moral justification for it, but that's the situation before a deal is struck.

They would go into the realighnment fund. However, the balance of that fund changes based upon the date. He C-7 stop getting a claim on funds entering the account the day after the split becomes official. Besides, future income is not a certainty. For example, there is no 2.5 million coming from SDSU anymore. Also, ECU and Tulane have not withdrawn from CUSA--so those funds are not a certanty. Im assuming, division of assets would be as of a set split date. If that date moves from 07/2014 to 07/2013--the expected balance in the account changes. Could I be wrong, lol, sure---but I think this makes sense.

During a townhall meeting this week, our AD said that Tulane and ECU have made it official with the conference. This was during a question specifically regarding exit fees.
02-28-2013 04:51 PM
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Eagleweiser Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
UCF, SMU and ECU are on the hook for more money in exit fees from CUSA than Memphis, Tulane and Houston are. Have to say that yes the incoming teams are getting screwed for sure, but then again they fell the pie in the sky BS and billboards that Marinara propagandized to them.
02-28-2013 05:07 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 03:00 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 01:02 PM)gocards#1 Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:49 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  In football, ECU did everything it could. Saying a classless statement like "squandering every opportunity they had" sounds like they had control of the outcomes and did not actually do the best they could. That would be a bold faced lie if someone actually said that was the truth. I'm positive ECU could have done more on the basketball side in the 90s but it would have come at the cost of the football side. We weren't oozing with money. Neither was Louisville but you were better off financially, in a much larger market and had the benefit of moving up added to the punch. ECU's basketball has come a long ways in just three years. The strides are being made there.

Has UCF has done all they could. Outside of building a tin can for their football stadium, they've done exactly what they should have...everything...basketball included. And as for the stadium, I think that's all they could really afford...so it was the right move.

Houston and SMU are making the strides off the field now. Houston did it on the field in football for quite some time now.

Memphis has done all they could in basketball. Football is another story but it didn't keep them from getting invited.

Long story short...your comment is unwarranted and ignorant of the truth. Look what happened to Cincy (who was arguably worse than any of the new teams) when they were added to the Big East in 2004. Look at the dramatic change in football. You can not deny the help that BCS AQ inclusion has done for your program. Nor can you claim that because you've done so well that it proves everyone else with Non-AQ status squandered their opportunities away. Just a classless thing to say.

For God's sake we played our home football games in a minor league baseball stadium until 1998. We almost dropped down to division II in the 80's. Now look where we are. My point is that we decided to make a commitment to improve our program from the ground up and it worked. All these excuses of "not having a market" and "not having enough money" are irrelevant. We considerably worse off than you guys but we didn't let that stop us. So my claim about how you guys squandered your opportunities is the cold hard truth. If we could find a way to do it there's no reason anybody else can't.

I didn't list one excuse as to why we didn't rise up. The market was why you did rise up, and your basketball and the fact there is only UK competing with you in Kentucky. There are a lot of reasons Louisville was chosen over others. Saying we squadered opportunities is bull feathers and you know it. ECU invested far more than Cincy did and did far better in football...and when football (which was driving the bus) came calling, it was ECU that was left behind. Your argument is full of sh*t and you know it. You can't really point to squandered opportunities without first looking at those who WERE chosen and had done less.

I think it's great Louisville made it out of the hole but that crap you spew is unbelievable.

The primary forces behind Louisville's move were 2 things: Denny Crum's legacy in Basketball and Papa John's money. Without either, especially the second, Louisville would have remained where they were.
02-28-2013 05:33 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 05:33 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  The primary forces behind Louisville's move were 2 things: Denny Crum's legacy in Basketball and Papa John's money. Without either, especially the second, Louisville would have remained where they were.

I remember back in the '80s they hired Bo Schembechler. Didn't work, but points for trying. I was a kid, so maybe it was like Bobby Petrino at Western Kentucky, but still, points for trying.
02-28-2013 05:38 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 05:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 05:33 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  The primary forces behind Louisville's move were 2 things: Denny Crum's legacy in Basketball and Papa John's money. Without either, especially the second, Louisville would have remained where they were.

I remember back in the '80s they hired Bo Schembechler. Didn't work, but points for trying. I was a kid, so maybe it was like Bobby Petrino at Western Kentucky, but still, points for trying.

You mean Howard Schnellenberger. Huge difference between he and Bo (Michigan).
02-28-2013 05:45 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:46 AM)UABGrad Wrote:  If the C7 leave for the 13/14 season, I bet ND sneaks out the door while it's open. I'm sure UL and Rutgers would want to hang around for the last BCS bid in the fall, but I wonder if they will bail out for the winter/spring sports. The money difference between the ACC and Confrence America in media alone is 17 mil per year and even more for the B1G. Seems like paying lots of millions to leave early would pay off. Would it be unprecidented for a school to change conferences mid school year?

The B1G isn't ready for Rutgers/Maryland until 2014 so I doubt you'll see any movement by Louisville before 2014.

2013-14 will mark Louisville's 9th season which is about how long they stayed in CUSA.
02-28-2013 05:50 PM
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boss man Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Will the Incoming Aresco League Schools Get (Further) Screwed?
(02-28-2013 10:54 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-28-2013 10:47 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  
(02-27-2013 10:39 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  There is a risk that UConn, USF, Cincinnati and maybe Temple will sell the Big East name to the C7 in exchange for all claim to the exit fee money, and then divide up the exit fee money amongst themselves. According to the emails sent by the Aresco League lawyer last December, there will be about $18.8M in the Realignment Reserve Fund by June 2013. Call it $21M when you include Boise's cancellation fee of $2.5M.

So they could sell the name to the C7 for the Realignment Fund, and then distribute the money amongst themselves, $7M each.

Sounds ok to me. UC, UConn, and USF have been screwed over the most in this realignment age so they should profit the most from exit fees.

It might sound OK to you, but how do you think it sounds to Memphis/Houston/UCF etc? They're paying $2.5M in entry fees, they pay $500,000 in CUSA exit fees, and you're handing over conference property for money that they're not getting a piece of.

That's when legal counsel starts talking about "nuclear options." Maybe the incoming schools can't get an injunction against the Big East settling anything with the C-7 until the new members come in. But you can try. And you can try it in a Texas court, a Florida court, a Tennessee court, and maybe a Pennsylvania court at the same time.

Realistically, a three-way deal will get done.

I agree with this final sentence. It just makes the most sense to work with the incoming members.

No one argues UConn, UC, and USF especially have been hit hard with the changes the past 1.5 years.

But take MEMPHIS as an example of the hurt the newcomers are experiencing. The Big East that invited MEMPHIS to join on 2-8-12 had Louisville, Rutgers, the C-7 and Notre Dame for BB. It had Boise State and SDSU joining for FB.

Now all of those long time members (and new entrants for FB) are gone or going to be gone by 7-1-13 or 7-1-14 (RU and UL).

The truth is the Big East that invited MEMPHIS, UCF, SMU, and Houston over a year ago is not the SAME Big East these schools are joining.

It might not be the smartest thing to greedily try to take the $7mm each before the newcomers join. I agree with JohnBragg legal counsel will most definitely intervene to delay/prevent this. Who knows? Such a thing might delay the C-7 from being able to leave on 7-1-13 and I KNOW they really don't want to hang around another year.

No...the financial split will be negotiated with all current and incoming members' input and agreement. It could include reducing the entry fee, too. Don't worry; UC, UConn, and USF will get a larger piece of the pie, no doubt. But no way they get it ALL.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2013 01:35 PM by boss man.)
03-01-2013 01:35 PM
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