(05-08-2013 11:23 AM)Underdog Wrote:  The "epitome of duplication" is having FIVE TEXAS SCHOOLS IN THE B12. Thus, looking like the state of Ohio in the MAC:

I've driven through both states, and its a false analogy: Texas is a whole hell of a lot bigger than Ohio ~ not just a bigger population, but geographically bigger. A closer analogy to Texas in terms of geographical spread would be the Great Lake States ~ and of course, the Big Ten does just fine with eight Great Lakes States schools.

The "Houston Issue" is not that East Texas duplicates Central Texas, but rather that support in East Texas is A&M and UT first and second (I won't argue which is first and which is second, as I may wish to drive through the state of Texas again some day), daylight is third, and Houston is a distant fourth at best.

Let Houston build their profile, win the American at a high enough ranking to beat out Boise State to get into an Access Bowl more than once or twice, have a good W-L record in those Access Bowl games, and do the rest of what they need to do to bring themselves into a close third in East Texas ... and then the talk of Houston to the Big12 can start. Right now, its a minimum of five years premature. more likely still a decade, and more likely still forever premature.

And, despite the risk of it being on topic, pretty much the same for USF/UCF. Both are well placed in excellent markets, and either would need to make a big noise to get people watching and then follow it up successfully to keep people watching for their market position to be meaningful for the kinds of media value that the Big12 is going to be looking at. And that's a bit of a zero sum game, since its not possible for both to win The American East in the same year, so every time one of them breaks into the Access Bowls is a lost opportunity for the other to do the same.

(05-09-2013 10:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-08-2013 11:23 AM)Underdog Wrote:  The "epitome of duplication" is having FIVE TEXAS SCHOOLS IN THE B12. Thus, looking like the state of Ohio in the MAC:

I've driven through both states, and its a false analogy: Texas is a whole hell of a lot bigger than Ohio ~ not just a bigger population, but geographically bigger. A closer analogy to Texas in terms of geographical spread would be the Great Lake States ~ and of course, the Big Ten does just fine with eight Great Lakes States schools.

That's simply false. The Great Lakes touch 8 states, which total 80% more land area and 3.3 times as many people as Texas. Even if you're not counting NY, PA, and MN as GL states (which it seems like you aren't), they still have almost double the population as Texas in roughly the same area.

And if you want to look at it that way, the myth of how much Texas dominates in college football is revealed pretty quickly by comparing the number of recognized national titles won in the respective regions (over any time period).

The reason they have more teams in the Big 10 is not just the larger population; the GL region is more divided culturally. For example: greater Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton total the same number of people and land area as greater Houston. But Greater Houston is 1 market, and the three in Ohio are 3 distinct markets. There's a dozen metro areas in those 5 states bigger than the 5th biggest metro area in Texas.

(05-09-2013 10:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(05-08-2013 11:23 AM)Underdog Wrote:  The "epitome of duplication" is having FIVE TEXAS SCHOOLS IN THE B12. Thus, looking like the state of Ohio in the MAC:

I've driven through both states, and its a false analogy: Texas is a whole hell of a lot bigger than Ohio ~ not just a bigger population, but geographically bigger. A closer analogy to Texas in terms of geographical spread would be the Great Lake States ~ and of course, the Big Ten does just fine with eight Great Lakes States schools.

The "Houston Issue" is not that East Texas duplicates Central Texas, but rather that support in East Texas is A&M and UT first and second (I won't argue which is first and which is second, as I may wish to drive through the state of Texas again some day), daylight is third, and Houston is a distant fourth at best.

Let Houston build their profile, win the American at a high enough ranking to beat out Boise State to get into an Access Bowl more than once or twice, have a good W-L record in those Access Bowl games, and do the rest of what they need to do to bring themselves into a close third in East Texas ... and then the talk of Houston to the Big12 can start. Right now, its a minimum of five years premature. more likely still a decade, and more likely still forever premature.

And, despite the risk of it being on topic, pretty much the same for USFUCF. Both are well placed in excellent markets, and either would need to make a big noise to get people watching and then follow it up successfully to keep people watching for their market position to be meaningful for the kinds of media value that the Big12 is going to be looking at. And that's a bit of a zero sum game, since its not possible for both to win The American East in the same year, so every time one of them breaks into the Access Bowls is a lost opportunity for the other to do the same.

If B12 games are televised in Houston, what would be the point of adding the school instead of another school in large market outside of the B12's footprint that doesn't receive Big 12 games? Consequently, adding Houston doesn't make sense to me unless B12 games aren't televised in the Houston market.

(05-10-2013 10:14 AM)Underdog Wrote:  If B12 games are televised in Houston, what would be the point of adding the school instead of another school in large market outside of the B12's footprint that doesn't receive Big 12 games? Consequently, adding Houston doesn't make sense to me unless B12 games aren't televised in the Houston market.

I have to agree with this point. Indeed, one of the great failings of the Big 12 during the current realignment so far has been the absolute failure to expand its market. Let's compare the conferences:

- Big Ten - Added Nebraska (only FBS school in small state, strong national brand), added Rutgers (only FBS school in large state), added Maryland (number one FBS school in mid-sized state). Summary: Got new markets, a national brand, and inventory for the BTN.
- SEC - Added Texas A&M (number two FBS school in very large state), added Missouri (only FBS school in mid-sized state). Summary: Got new markets, improved TV deal, and got inventory to create the SECN.
- ACC- Added Syracuse (number one FBS school in very large state), added Pittsburgh (number two FBS school in very large state), lost Maryland (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), added Louisville (number "1A" school in mid-sized state); added Notre Dame (partial)(National Brand). Summary: Net improvement in markets, improved TV deal, got national brand(s), and got inventory to create the ACCN.
- Pac 12 - Added Colorado (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), added Utah (number one FBS school in small state). Summary: Got improved TV deal and inventory to create the P12 Network.
- Big 12 -Lost Colorado (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), lost Nebraska (only FBS school in small state, strong national brand), lost Missouri (only FBS school in mid-sized state), lost Texas A&M (number two FBS school in very large state), added TCU (number five FBS school in very large state in which it already has 3 schools), added WVU (number one FBS school in small state). Summary: Avoided complete implosion, improved TV deal, but precluded from conference TV network.

Bottom line, the Big 12 lost the realignment game. Of the former AQ conferences, only the Big East faired worse. Moving to 12 with any of UC, UConn, BYU, USF or UCF could allow them to get some ground back. Adding UH would not.

(05-10-2013 11:46 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 10:14 AM)Underdog Wrote:  If B12 games are televised in Houston, what would be the point of adding the school instead of another school in large market outside of the B12's footprint that doesn't receive Big 12 games? Consequently, adding Houston doesn't make sense to me unless B12 games aren't televised in the Houston market.

I have to agree with this point. Indeed, one of the great failings of the Big 12 during the current realignment so far has been the absolute failure to expand its market. Let's compare the conferences:

- Big Ten - Added Nebraska (only FBS school in small state, strong national brand), added Rutgers (only FBS school in large state), added Maryland (number one FBS school in mid-sized state).
- SEC - Added Texas A&M (number two FBS school in very large state), added Missouri (only FBS school in mid-sized state)
- ACC- Added Syracuse (number one FBS school in very large state), added Pittsburgh (number two FBS school in very large state), lost Maryland (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), added Louisville (number "1A" school in mid-sized state); added Notre Dame (partial)(National Brand).
- Pac 12 - Added Colorado (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), added Utah (number one FBS school in small state)
- Big 12 -Lost Colorado (number one FBS school in mid-sized state), lost Nebraska (only FBS school in small state, strong national brand), lost Missouri (only FBS school in mid-sized state), lost Texas A&M (number two FBS school in very large state), added TCU (number five FBS school in very large state in which it already has 3 schools), added WVU (number one FBS school in small state).

Bottom line, the Big 12 lost the realignment game. Of the former AQ conferences, only the Big East faired worse. Moving to 12 with any of UC, UConn, BYU, USF or UCF could allow them to get some ground back. Adding UH would not.

The B12 failed miserable when it didn't take Louisville and Cincy along with WV. It seems that the WV addition was done out of desperation without any consideration for additional eastern expansion. So I agree with you. After the Big East/MWC=fiasco, the B12 seems clueless on further conference expansion.

I have a question regarding USF and UCF for Bitcruncher... would their admission to the Big XII, aside from all the money issues, help WVU in any way? Geographics, etc. ? You are my authority on all things WVU on this board.

West Virginia recruits Florida a lot, so it would help to play some games in that state.

Quote:Chuck Carlton ‏@ChuckCarltonDMN 22m
Obligatory Bob Bowlsby on 10 members and expansion: "We have strategically decided that’s where we want to stay for a while."

(05-10-2013 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:Chuck Carlton ‏@ChuckCarltonDMN 22m
Obligatory Bob Bowlsby on 10 members and expansion: "We have strategically decided that’s where we want to stay for a while."

By the three golden rules of conference realignment rumors, this means ... press conferences on Monday in Orlando and Tampa!

Rule 1: Any conference commissioner who says they are expanding, or any school official who says their school is moving, is telling the truth.

Rule 2: Any conference commissioner who says they are not expanding, or any school official who says their school is not moving, is lying (or, at best, badly misinformed).

Rule 3: If a conference commissioner or school official is asked about expansion and they say, "No comment," that means expansion is totally happening next week.

Could the big12 move to 14 & pick up the florida twins, cincy & uconn? it expands into new markets, give WVa a travel partner in cincy.....

I just can't see Bowlsby and Dodds about-facing on their 12 month rhetoric (round robin play, clearer path to playoff, expansion needs to add equivalent value per team, blah blah) to add UCF/USF. Of course, if Texas gets to keep the Longhorn network and expand distribution into Florida, who knows...

(05-09-2013 05:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  That's simply false. The Great Lakes touch 8 states, which total 80% more land area and 3.3 times as many people as Texas. Even if you're not counting NY, PA, and MN as GL states (which it seems like you aren't),

Of course I'm not, I'm counting the conventional five Great Lakes States.

Quote: they still have almost double the population as Texas in roughly the same area.

Yes, which makes it a much closer analogy to Texas than Ohio is ~ 268K sq. mi. to 45K sq. mi is almost a 6:1 ratio.

Quote: And if you want to look at it that way, the myth of how much Texas dominates in college football is revealed pretty quickly by comparing the number of recognized national titles won in the respective regions (over any time period).

If you are talking recruiting grounds, then 3/4/5 star recruits or NFL draft places by state of HS graduation are far better measures than national titles won.

Quote: The reason they have more teams in the Big 10 is not just the larger population; the GL region is more divided culturally. For example: greater Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton total the same number of people and land area as greater Houston. But Greater Houston is 1 market, and the three in Ohio are 3 distinct markets. There's a dozen metro areas in those 5 states bigger than the 5th biggest metro area in Texas.

And several metro areas in Texas that are many multiples of the largest metro area in Ohio, which is another reason why the Ohio to Texas comparison is strained.

(05-10-2013 03:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-10-2013 03:25 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:Chuck Carlton ‏@ChuckCarltonDMN 22m
Obligatory Bob Bowlsby on 10 members and expansion: "We have strategically decided that’s where we want to stay for a while."

By the three golden rules of conference realignment rumors, this means ... press conferences on Monday in Orlando and Tampa!

Rule 1: Any conference commissioner who says they are expanding, or any school official who says their school is moving, is telling the truth.

Rule 2: Any conference commissioner who says they are not expanding, or any school official who says their school is not moving, is lying (or, at best, badly misinformed).

Rule 3: If a conference commissioner or school official is asked about expansion and they say, "No comment," that means expansion is totally happening next week.

Well technically, he never di define what "a while" was...

Who started this stupid rumor? ridiculous.

...you went looking for this. This was from 2013.

xxx

It's not as far fetched as you all think. You think Orlando Tampa markets are not very attractive? The SEC moved into Texas, you think the B12 wouldn't like to move into Florida? Don't tell me about big brothers in the state either, with a P5 upgrade, the UCF/USF tandem would explode. Times can and do change...

But I realize it's far more likely both stay and work to build up the AAC as the sole #6, and with decent TV $$$ that can work out very well indeed.

It is completely unrealistic. Same with U Conn. No one is moving out of the AAC soon.

(05-16-2015 02:23 PM)Savacool Wrote:  It is completely unrealistic. Same with U Conn. No one is moving out of the AAC soon.

-53 rep points?

LOL that's some heaving trolling.....

(05-16-2015 02:23 PM)Savacool Wrote:  It is completely unrealistic. Same with U Conn. No one is moving out of the AAC soon.

They said the same thing in cusa